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Photogs / Photo Exhibits This is the place to discuss a particular Photographer (work, style, life, whatever), as well as to post Gallery and Museum Photo Exhibitions and your own impressions of them. As we march on in this new digital world, it is often too easy to forget about the visual importance of the photographic print, as well as their financial importance to the photographer. It is also interesting to remember that some guy named Gene Smith shot with lenses that many lens test reading "never had a picture published in their life" amateurs would turn up their their noses at, as being "unacceptable."

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Eric Kim and a disconnect?
Old 09-07-2017   #1
emraphoto
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Eric Kim and a disconnect?

So here's a question/disconnect for me...

It seems that the popular posit in is to dislike Eric Kim with varying degrees of intensity. Now I haven't met him in person nor have I taken a workshop but personally he seems like a pretty damn good photographer AND as far as the 'hustle' goes he is knocking it out of the park. By 'hustle' I mean all the things one must do to make a living producing photographs... self promotion, sales, revenue generation and so forth.

So what's the deal? He puts out good photographs as far as I can see (although I am not a big fan of 'street' photography) and his writing/articles/self promotion is usually sound.

Why the hate?
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Old 09-07-2017   #2
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Ask Ken Rockwell. Surely HE will know the answer.
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Old 09-07-2017   #3
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Perhaps, envy?
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Old 09-07-2017   #4
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Often Envy, many succesful photographers are disliked Annie Leibovitz is another one
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Old 09-07-2017   #5
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Quote:
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Perhaps, envy?
Agree, mixed with a helping of resentment, maybe. Those of us making our living from something other than photography (as I do) find it strangely easy to criticize those who do, I think.
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Old 09-07-2017   #6
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My two cents: this article: https://petapixel.com/2017/05/12/ear...r-photography/ got a lot of people upset. Some concluded that he was 'bragging', not about making a living but about making a lot of money, instead of highlighting his work.
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Old 09-07-2017   #7
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Envy, certainly, however that envy is generated by the belief that accolades and success have ben undeserved - usually that the photography is OK, but that the self-promotion is what has garnered any success. In Eric Kim’s case, I haven’t seen his work for ages, however his early work was - quite frankly - pretty awful. As soon as someone like Ken Rockwell talks about what “We PROFESSIONAL photographers do” etc. there is a grandiosity and perceived lack of reality.

I think LOTS of the most popular bloggers overestimate their knowledge and skills - usually they tell you who they are, rather than showing you - they are the conduits between the real experts and the neophytes. A lot of it does come down to perceived arrogance.
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Old 09-07-2017   #8
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This is very first thread I see in years to be dedicated strictly for him. So, I'm not sure if he is popular as he was. To me he is very good populist of photography. And it is nice to have him around. Nothing to dislike.

Yet, OP personal remark about him been "a pretty damn good photographer" personally to me is the quiz. Last time I was trying to find the photography by him and from him, I can't see it on exposures provided.
And I'm very open-minded for the photography.
Nothing wrong with Eric, still, I don't think good instructor and populist as him must be good photographer.
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Old 09-07-2017   #9
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Some don't agree his photography is good; some see his form of "street photography" as risible, obvious, cliched, not very hard, whatever, and not worth looking at; and some think that his gear reviews are equally banal.

I looked at some of his blogging and can't say I remember much except he seemed quite positive [though I cannot remember what about].

I expect the photos were nice too, but I can't remember any of them either.
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Old 09-07-2017   #10
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If you hustle and bustle by ripping your clients off big time, you can buy a M10 for the whole family
Good luck to him.
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Old 09-07-2017   #11
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His photography is too Bruce Gildenesque which can be a good teaching tool to get your students' nerves up sort of like watching highway fatality videos in driver's ed.
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Old 09-07-2017   #12
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I did one of Eric's workshops back in 2011 and didn't ask for my money back ; )

Whenever he does a workshop in Tokyo I try to join an after-event GTG, usually some dinner were the chances of running into someone I know is very high... Most likely I picked up on a couple of points in the workshop, but definitely made some excellent long term contacts.
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Old 09-07-2017   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emraphoto View Post
Why the hate?
Whatever the reason, it's good for him. Marketing-wise, any exposure is good exposure So we don't need to feel sorry for him.

Roland.
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Old 09-07-2017   #14
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The more you talk about him the stronger he gets good/bad indifferent.... I would drop is thread right now just my opinion..
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Old 09-07-2017   #15
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Haters hate the hustle, period.

Anyone who defines a person by ONE article is kidding themselves. I enjoy his work and his hustle personally. I find it motivating.
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Old 09-07-2017   #16
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Old 09-07-2017   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
Often Envy, many succesful photographers are disliked Annie Leibovitz is another one
Yes, but have you ever met anyone who has ever met her who actually liked her? I never have, so I can't speak from experience, but the few people I know who have worked with her speak much more highly of her photographic talent than of her affability and kindness.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 09-07-2017   #18
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The more you talk about him the stronger he gets good/bad indifferent.... I would drop is thread right now just my opinion..
Why? Is he a threat to world peace?

In all seriousness though... are there lessons to take from his approach? I mean he seems to be doing fairly well at it?
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Old 09-07-2017   #19
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Yes, but have you ever met anyone who has ever met her who actually liked her? I never have, so I can't speak from experience, but the few people I know who have worked with her speak much more highly of her photographic talent than of her affability and kindness.

Cheers,

R.

I thinks her is a he
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Old 09-07-2017   #20
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Sheesh, all this opprobrium about a guy who blogs and pushes workshops and accessories. So what? No harm, no foul. If he's not to your taste, and he's not to mine, don't read him.

Now that I think about it, if you believe he sucks but manages to influence other photographers to make inferior pictures, doesn't that make my photos comparatively better in the marketplace? Hmm.
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Old 09-07-2017   #21
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kindness...hmmm
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Old 09-07-2017   #22
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Quote:
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Speaking of Leibovitz, not Kim, I believe.
Aha! Sorry Roger
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Old 09-07-2017   #23
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To me he seems like an ok guy. However, he is massively over promoting himself. I would never pay to go to one of his workshops in a million years because I have not seen any photos of his which I would consider particularly good and I dont the the approach of getting in people's faces to get a reaction... which is the essence of what he teaches. it seems if you've got the motivation, the courage and the ego then you can become a self professed guru in any subject. I might start a blog on carpentry tonight and make $200,000k per year.
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Old 09-07-2017   #24
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I should add that I know nothing about carpentry.
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Old 09-07-2017   #25
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I should add that I know nothing about carpentry.
Not a requirement.
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Old 09-07-2017   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emraphoto View Post
So here's a question/disconnect for me...

It seems that the popular posit in is to dislike Eric Kim with varying degrees of intensity. Now I haven't met him in person nor have I taken a workshop but personally he seems like a pretty damn good photographer AND as far as the 'hustle' goes he is knocking it out of the park. By 'hustle' I mean all the things one must do to make a living producing photographs... self promotion, sales, revenue generation and so forth.

So what's the deal? He puts out good photographs as far as I can see (although I am not a big fan of 'street' photography) and his writing/articles/self promotion is usually sound.

Why the hate?
Hi John

I think part of it is, The negative voices are always loudest.

Early on in his "stardom" he was not really a very good photographer but rather an average photographer and very good mouthpiece ... which is arguably a more challenging art.
He had his workshops and videos but the work was not there yet..... that seems to have built some lasting resentment.
It's difficult to objectively carry those feelings over now. His work has come way up and as you mention.... the man has great biz "hustle" which demands respect.
There is always a level of the old resisting the new as well....When he started he was a really young cat. He's still pretty young for the success he has achieved.
For me this deserves a lot of props. From some others it deserves vitriol and resentment.
Again, The negative voices are always loudest.
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Old 09-07-2017   #27
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I don't know him very well, only watched some of his videos. I found them a bit too cringy for my taste. Ugh. *Shivers*.

So I don't watch him anymore.
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Old 09-07-2017   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
Often Envy, many succesful photographers are disliked Annie Leibovitz is another one
I think much of the dislike for Leibovitz, within the working photo world, is because of her extremely harsh treatment of her employees. The stories are so numerous that, I saw her asked about it in a TV interview, and to my surprise, she admitted to going over the line numerous times (raving, screaming angry in a story told by a former 1st assistant, as a result her whole staff walked out on her). I'm wondering how many times she's been sued by former employees?

As for Kim, I don't really know much about him.
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Old 09-07-2017   #29
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Quote:
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Hi John

I think part of it is, The negative voices are always loudest.

Early on in his "stardom" he was not really a very good photographer but rather an average photographer and very good mouthpiece ... which is arguably a more challenging art.
He had his workshops and videos but the work was not there yet..... that seems to have built some lasting resentment.
It's difficult to objectively carry those feelings over now. His work has come way up and as you mention.... the man has great biz "hustle" which demands respect.
There is always a level of the old resisting the new as well....When he started he was a really young cat. He's still pretty young for the success he has achieved.
For me this deserves a lot of props. From some others it deserves vitriol and resentment.
Again, The negative voices are always loudest.

As photojournalism continues its never ending plunge to the waste bin a lot of folks are working hard at how to make it all work... the 'hustle' as you pointed out. For that reason alone I find the Eric Kim story very interesting. Not that I would copy the model but for students and newcomers there is a lot to be learnt from his approach. It would seem he isn't doing things too far off from some of the famous names that get tossed about here.

In the beginning I wasn't a big fan of the work he put out. I'm still not enthralled with the 'proximity vector' that seems to win praise in this circle. As I come across his work now, recent work, it seems he has developed a pretty sound understanding of 2 dimensional design theory. I think he has come a long way towards being a great photographer.

So, I get the oversaturation argument. If you've seen enough of the guy then you've seen enough. When I read the comments though, on his articles about the net, I can't help but feel envy has gotten the best of some folks.
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Old 09-07-2017   #30
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Didn't know about him till this thread... haha
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Old 09-07-2017   #31
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I miss Kai and Lok from digitalrev.

I couldn't care less about camera reviews, but I do like to be entertained.
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Old 09-07-2017   #32
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But but.. street togs.....
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Old 09-07-2017   #33
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Didn't know about him till this thread... haha
Sorry mon amI
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Old 09-07-2017   #34
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envy, and no surprise it's rearing it's garbage head here too.
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Old 09-07-2017   #35
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Linking this article here. He set out to make a living with what he likes, and seems to be quite well. How many so-called street photographers can truly make a living like this?
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Old 09-07-2017   #36
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envy, and no surprise it's rearing it's garbage head here too.
I think so. Liking someone's work/art is subjective. So forget that. And be impressed that the dood is making a living at it. Good for him.
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Old 09-07-2017   #37
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I watch his stuff from time to time .
He can be entertaining, although a little silly for my taste ,but he`s informative enough and I`m pleased that he`s able to make a living.
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Old 09-07-2017   #38
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Linking this article here. He set out to make a living with what he likes, and seems to be quite well. How many so-called street photographers can truly make a living like this?

If you are street photographer who is known for street photography and not for seminars on street photography, it means, you spend a lot of time on the street. Not on money making seminars.

Winogrand "I'm surviving". Even he has to teach. To have some money...


I think, street photography seminar by Eric brings more than street photography. And this is why it is worth of paying. Many street photographers, but only few good instructors on street photography who like Eric understands what where are lot more involved on human nature at both sides (taker and taken), much more comparing to flowers, veggie photography.
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Old 09-07-2017   #39
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.........Who?
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Old 09-07-2017   #40
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Linking this article here. He set out to make a living with what he likes, and seems to be quite well. How many so-called street photographers can truly make a living like this?
Indeed. Perhaps this post is even my point. The fellow seems to be doing all right. I think his recent work is pretty good, all things considered.

The conversation came up as I was sitting in a cafe listening to some curmudgeonly photographers go on about him in a very negative fashion. To shorten a long and boring conversation, 'fraud' will suffice. Therein lies the disconnect for me. The guy is producing and showing work, running workshops and travelling the world doing this photography thing. What's fraudulent about that?
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