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Business / Philosophy of Photography Taking pics is one thing, but understanding why we take them, what they mean, what they are best used for, how they effect our reality -- all of these and more are important issues of the Philosophy of Photography. One of the best authors on the subject is Susan Sontag in her book "On Photography."

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So you think facebook sucks!
Old 11-11-2014   #1
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So you think facebook sucks!

In some ways it does but I've just been asked to do some corporate portraits and photograph a woman and her two adult daughters. Both of these requests have come directly from what I've posted image wise at FB over the last year.

I know FB can be nauseating at times but as a method of getting your work viewed/noticed by people who may be interested in what you have to offer photographically it has certain advantages. It's not all puppies, kittens, lunch pics and inane videos!
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Old 11-11-2014   #2
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Old 11-11-2014   #3
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Old 11-11-2014   #4
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I use twitter. I use Flickr. I use other forms of social networking. But I do not use FB. I dislike it and its paradigm. It is clunky to use and most of the posts I am asked to view are just an exercise in personal ego by people I can only conclude are very shallow and self obsessed. So I do not use it. When I changed cities a few years back I did use it for a year or so purely to try to find some friends with whom I had lost contact. And to be fair it was kinda helpful for this. But eventually I got sick of hearing from people who wanted to tell me they had just had a nice meal or a good bowel movement or some such rubbish and abandoned it altogether. Although a few years later I found there is no such thing as abandoning FB. When you tell them to cancel your membership they actually keep all your details on their database just in case you can ever be induced to change your mind. Which is another reason to dislike it. If I want a divorce from FB I want a divorce from FB. I am not looking to keep my options open - especially when they are secretly keeping details against my wishes. Anyway that's just me. Others are welcome to feel differently.
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Old 11-11-2014   #5
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[...] I do not use FB. [...] most of the posts I am asked to view are just an exercise in personal ego by people I can only conclude are very shallow and self obsessed.
Well they're your friends. Maybe you should find new ones.
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Old 11-11-2014   #6
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Well they're your friends. Maybe you should find new ones.
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Old 11-11-2014   #7
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I might also mention that the guys I work for use FB a fair amount in conjunction with the pics I take for them and regularly gain direct sales from their facebook page for their products and repair service.

Of course ... that really sucks ... free advertising! Phttttt!
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Old 11-11-2014   #8
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My only use for FB is to keep up with family. We are a bit scattered.. If someone who is not family sends me a friend request, I ignore it.
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Old 11-11-2014   #9
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You need to change your friends then Peter.

Face Book is a useful way of keeping up with the people on here and for distributing my photographs to friends.

Interesting stuff from the major photo agencies too.
The recent BW picture a day for five days challenge was fun.

Its invaluable if you are running any kind of business.
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Old 11-11-2014   #10
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Quote:
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You need to change your friends then Peter.

Face Book is a useful way of keeping up with the people on here and for distributing my photographs to friends.

Interesting stuff from the major photo agencies too.
The recent BW picture a day for five days challenge was fun.

Its invaluable if you are running any kind of business.
Hmmm perhaps. Maybe its improved since I was on it (about 5-6 years back). But I do presently prefer Twitter which lends itself very well to the free exchange of ideas with like minded people from around the world. Its less about the "look at me look at me" interactions I found to be so common on FB.
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Old 11-11-2014   #11
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... some people have a talent to show off ... some are just opinionated
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Old 11-11-2014   #12
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Hmmm perhaps. Maybe its improved since I was on it (about 5-6 years back). But I do presently prefer Twitter which lends itself very well to the free exchange of ideas with like minded people from around the world. Its less about the "look at me look at me" interactions I found to be so common on FB.
I closed my FB a few weeks ago, I very much agree with Peter here. I don't have a business so I can't comment on that, I initially signed up to keep in touch with family overseas (we're also a little scattered) and follow interesting artists/agencies.
I've grown tired of it, it simply does not do what I initially came for. And that's not giving you my opinion of what the company and business have become. My main channel is now Twitter
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Old 11-11-2014   #13
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I forgot to mention the good news feeds from around the world.
Updates from Burn/MOMA/Magnum or who ever your favorite photog is.

Even RFf is on there .

Sure there`s the "how drunk was I last night" type of posts but the beauty of FB is that you can moderate that sort of stuff.

You only see what you want to see.
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Old 11-11-2014   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
I forgot to mention the good news feeds from around the world.
Updates from Burn/MOMA/Magnum or who ever your favorite photog is.

Even RFf is on there .

Sure there`s the "how drunk was I last night" type of posts but the beauty of FB is that you can moderate that sort of stuff.

You only see what you want to see.
They're also on other channels. FB shows you what they think you should/want to see, I always felt the stream was a chaotic mess and could never filter it properly to see just what I wanted. Twitter inserts promoted tweets too, but (for now) they're less annoying. Also, there isn't the pretense of "friend" and the distinction of business and person, if I like the feed I subscribe, if the updates become uninteresting I unfollow.
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Old 11-11-2014   #15
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I know what you mean about the mess ...took me awhile to make sense of it.
I have friends and family on there and also contacts.
I have friends who have businesses on there too.
Don`t get too much promotional stuff .

I do have a twitter account but rarely use it ... now that did seem to be a platform for grandstanding.
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Old 11-11-2014   #16
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... some idiots even post photos of their lunch here on rff



... I'm unsure the medium matters, I think Peter's opinions will remain just as valid wherever he choses to share them
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Old 11-11-2014   #17
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The problem with FB, Twitter, LinkedIN is that any photo you post, by the agreements of the terms of use that you 'read and agreed to', becomes their property. To do with what they ever so please.
If one of your pics ever hits the big time and you make money off it, they can demand those monies as the image belongs to them.
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Old 11-11-2014   #18
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The problem with FB, Twitter, LinkedIN is that any photo you post, by the agreements of the terms of use that you 'read and agreed to', becomes their property. To do with what they ever so please.
If one of your pics ever hits the big time and you make money off it, they can demand those monies as the image belongs to them.
Not 100% about that... one should read the ToS. I'm not on FB, probably to the detriment of my business, therefore haven't explored their terms. Other sites generally require a non-exclusive image license to allow them to publish them on their site for redistribution on your behalf - I guess there have also been discussions around possible uses of images alongside ads. Anyway, such a non-exclusive license doesn't restrict you from selling your own images and keeping the proceeds of such sales. On the other hand, the given site could also sell your images and keep all proceeds of such sales...

As for FB... I don't trust their intentions with the user information they harvest, collate and package. I'm sure some aspects of my life would be easier by participating on FB, like keeping up with acquaintances. But at the moment I'm unconvinced the tradeoff is worth it.
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Old 11-11-2014   #19
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I use FB to see my close to me people status and express my opinion.
I don't use it for sales. Here is nothing wrong with it. Our local vynil records store only has FB page, no dedicated site. It is more convinient for me this way as well.

FB is very rudimental if you want quality in the picture.
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Old 11-11-2014   #20
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I left FB a couple years ago after being a pretty early adopter.

The culture it harbors had become just a bit too un real.
All those so called friends. I had real friends before.
I truly believe FB has taken away time my real friends used to spend together.
Even when together folks are more interested in their feed. Posting to it and looking for reactions to posts.
It's not healthy or natural.
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Old 11-11-2014   #21
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Hey if Keith likes it I better give it a second look LOL

I have a page but never have done anything with it.

the ire it draws I find interesting, probably a reflection of it's popularity.

Like cell phone cameras, LOL
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Old 11-11-2014   #22
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About half of my business is conducted via Facebook. I couldn't quit if I wanted to.
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Old 11-11-2014   #23
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re fb:
I have this one jerk who keeps following me and telling me how great my stuff is -- he goes by the name of michael markey....

other than that, fb is ok....
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Old 11-11-2014   #24
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i like FB…made a few sales and got a few photo jobs from it…great way to get your images out there.
last week i posted a pic here on rff, FB and flickr…i got one comment on rff, quite a few on Fb and almost 12,000 hits on flickr…

hard to hate social media...
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Old 11-11-2014   #25
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I'm on Facebook because I have to be - I was off for almost a year. Facebook's stance on their rights to your images was one reason I got off. It is draconian even compared to Google.

For professionals and organizations, Facebook is not as good as it used to be for free advertising. Early on if someone "liked" you they would get all of your updates which was great. Things changed a while back so that if you want more than a minuscule percentage of those people to get your updates regularly then you have to pay for it. As a user I found this really annoying. I liked things so I would get updates not so that I would have to go to each individual thing to see if there was a new update.

Rant, I know.
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Old 11-11-2014   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonosguy View Post
re fb:
I have this one jerk who keeps following me and telling me how great my stuff is -- he goes by the name of michael markey....

other than that, fb is ok....

I`ve not been drinking again have I
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Old 11-11-2014   #27
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In some ways it does but I've just been asked to do some corporate portraits and photograph a woman and her two adult daughters. Both of these requests have come directly from what I've posted image wise at FB over the last year.

I know FB can be nauseating at times but as a method of getting your work viewed/noticed by people who may be interested in what you have to offer photographically it has certain advantages. It's not all puppies, kittens, lunch pics and inane videos!

For business FB works well when you have a dedicated page where interested parties just join or follow you. That way you can keep business and personal material (selfies, puppies, meals eaten etc..) separate.

So, where's your business page?
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Old 11-11-2014   #28
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I've seen people start negotiations for a photo session with one my FB friends.
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Old 11-11-2014   #29
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The biggest problem with Facebook's metaphor is "friend or not friend". It is one dimensional. Facebook is trying to fix this by differentiating "friends", "close friends", etc. Google+ actually fixed this, but it never caught on.

The solution is that on your personal Facebook account, only accept actual friends -- I mean, actual friends.

For your business, set up a separate account to showcase and promote your work. It actually isn't that complicated.
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Old 11-11-2014   #30
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I do not use Facebook or linked and/or many other social media outlets.

Just a personal choice.

Photography and a couple of other sites is about my limit for social media.
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Old 11-11-2014   #31
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Facebook has been good to me. I've sold prints to people who "Liked" my Facebook page, and it has brought students to me for the personal photo lessons I teach.

Recently, though, Facebook has become much less useful. They changed it so that only a handful of those who "Like" a page actually receive updates from the page unless the page owner pays Facebook to show updates to those who have liked the page!
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Old 11-12-2014   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
Hey if Keith likes it I better give it a second look LOL

I have a page but never have done anything with it.

the ire it draws I find interesting, probably a reflection of it's popularity.

Like cell phone cameras, LOL


Hey ... I never said I liked it!

But I do accept it for what it is and it has put me in touch with some people from my past of late who I may never have crossed paths with any other way.
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Old 11-12-2014   #33
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Quote:
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For business FB works well when you have a dedicated page where interested parties just join or follow you. That way you can keep business and personal material (selfies, puppies, meals eaten etc..) separate.

So, where's your business page?
Not really interested in a business page as I work full time in a completely different field these days and really want nothing more than an occasional project or small job to keep me photographically amused.

I just thought it was intriguing that FB, without too much effort on my part, has managed to create sufficient interest in my photography that two people have asked if I can take photos for them. It has made me realise that if you really applied yourself you would likely get more of the same.
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Old 11-12-2014   #34
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As an amusing aside .... a customer came into the shop the other day who has been noticing the amount of black and white images I post at FB.

"Black and white! You're a typical bloody New Zealander ... living in the past!"
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Old 11-12-2014   #35
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As an amusing aside .... a customer came into the shop the other day who has been noticing the amount of black and white images I post at FB.

"Black and white! You're a typical bloody New Zealander ... living in the past!"






.........
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Old 11-12-2014   #36
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I just thought it was intriguing that FB, without too much effort on my part, has managed to create sufficient interest in my photography that two people have asked if I can take photos for them. It has made me realise that if you really applied yourself you would likely get more of the same.

Been my experience too but I always pass them on to others.
I`d pass them on to you but you only take BW
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Old 11-12-2014   #37
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Competent marketing works. FB is a proven marketing tool.
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Old 11-12-2014   #38
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Perhaps you have been fortunate, but I believe too much data mining goes on, from ID theft to home robbery.
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Old 11-12-2014   #39
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I am sure you are right, but common sense would tell you not to allow outsiders to look at your facebook page, unless it is clean of ID theft info and travel plans.

Of course even your friends can rob you.
... I feel a NRA moment coming up any second
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Old 11-12-2014   #40
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I use twitter. I use Flickr. I use other forms of social networking. But I do not use FB. I dislike it and its paradigm. It is clunky to use and most of the posts I am asked to view are just an exercise in personal ego by people I can only conclude are very shallow and self obsessed. So I do not use it. When I changed cities a few years back I did use it for a year or so purely to try to find some friends with whom I had lost contact. And to be fair it was kinda helpful for this. But eventually I got sick of hearing from people who wanted to tell me they had just had a nice meal or a good bowel movement or some such rubbish and abandoned it altogether. Although a few years later I found there is no such thing as abandoning FB. When you tell them to cancel your membership they actually keep all your details on their database just in case you can ever be induced to change your mind. Which is another reason to dislike it. If I want a divorce from FB I want a divorce from FB. I am not looking to keep my options open - especially when they are secretly keeping details against my wishes. Anyway that's just me. Others are welcome to feel differently.
Personally I feel exactly the same, particularly when it comes to their data retention policy which can only be described as outrageous.

Yesterday evening I went out with some members of a poetry group who communicate entirely via FB. They were surprised that I didn't do the same for photography, which made me once more profoundly grateful for the existence of RFF.
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