Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Digital Cameras > Sigma / Foveon Cameras

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Quattro user preview from commercial site in Japan
Old 06-20-2014   #1
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 56
Posts: 3,113
Quattro user preview from commercial site in Japan

http://photo.yodobashi.com/sigma/imp/dp2q.html

Reading through the Japanese, it sounds like the user, who has been a Foveon user from the start, is convinced that the Quattro is a noticeable improvement over the Merrill in just about every way. Noise gain of two stops. Higher resolution as promised. Better color definition. Much better battery life. Much better ergonomics. Better AF. Sounds like a home run!

I think it is important to remember that this is posted on a commercial site.
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2014   #2
Maiku
Maiku
 
Maiku is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 831
At 1100 USD I think I will skip it. Wow! The viewfinder is 250 USD. Yikes.

That said I do enjoy Sigmas Feveon sensor photos. They are lovely.
__________________
"If I could tell a story in words, I won't need to lug around a camera." -- Lewis Hine

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/1573670/album

Camera: Sony a7. Minolta Lenses: 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.7, 50/3.5, 85/1.4, 100/2.8, 75/210/4. Tokina Lenses: 28-70/2.8
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2014   #3
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 45
Posts: 19,735
Oddly interested...
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2014   #4
darya151
Registered User
 
darya151 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 132
The colors are so rich and saturated. Just have to remember this is a commercial thread.....
Darya
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2014   #5
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maiku View Post
At 1100 USD I think I will skip it. Wow! The viewfinder is 250 USD. Yikes.

That said I do enjoy Sigmas Feveon sensor photos. They are lovely.
It is being sold at under 1000 at b&h and other cameras mail order stores on pre-order. So I'm assuming this is Canadian dollars u are talking about?

I have been perfectly happy using an old film ovf (40mm from Rollei), u don't have to get the sigma.

The Merrill's are current all under 700 in the US currently. In other parts of the world I think I have heard under 650. The pre-Merrill are always under 300 on the used market these days.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2014   #6
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 56
Posts: 3,113
I'm happy to stay with the Merrills for another generation, but may look at replacing the DP1M with a Quattro version in another year or so when the prices come down. I mostly use the Merrills for landscape, and what they deliver is good enough for me.

If I were "in the market" I'd probably be pretty excited by the Quattros. But I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a Merrill now if budget were an important concern. Indeed, I don't think it's worth spending the premium to replace a Merrill with a Quattro except for some very specific circumstances.
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-03-2014   #7
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
Well this post at getdpi.. Doesn't look good for the Quattro in terms of color related issues popping up in certain situations. W/o the side by side though I would not have noticed very easily.

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/590094-post65.html

I think if u are are primarily color shooter, then this is something to think about. As primarily a monochrome shooter w/ the dp series, it give me pause, but right now unless I c some issues crop up w/ monochrome mode, I think I will still give the new Quattro a try.

The low size raw mode where the top portion of the 4-1-1 (blue-green-red), where the 4 blue photo sites are mapped into the green and blue layers as a 1-1-1 mapping should do away with any interpretation problem at expense of resolution though.

If this is an algo related problem that is showing up, how much of it can be corrected in post processing of the raw in spp. It is not clear if this was a beta copy firmware results though..the poster (Hulyss) at getdpi has been on the Sigma beta program before.. He has inferred his disappointment way before anyone ever received any news of the sigma free trial offer, in a post about 3-4 weeks ago over at getdpi.

I am still going to try for myself, but I am a bit disappointed w/ this example since I probably shoot about 20-30% color w/ my dp Merrill's currently.

I guess the other question that comes up.. How would a Bayer or xtran algo have handled this situation (same, better or worse)? His example seems to be similar to issues that are seen w/ cameras that Bayer sensors and have no AA (so probably no worse then when it happens to them)....????

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1

Last edited by GaryLH : 07-03-2014 at 09:32. Reason: Fixed sentence and auto correct mistakes
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-03-2014   #8
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,425
Ouch indeed. And blinds also have some aliasing. If you look at the text on the sign however then resolution is up.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-03-2014   #9
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maiku View Post
At 1100 USD I think I will skip it. Wow! The viewfinder is 250 USD. Yikes.

That said I do enjoy Sigmas Feveon sensor photos. They are lovely.
Btw. All the dp Merrill's are currently on sale. All under 700 in US.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-03-2014   #10
YYV_146
Registered User
 
YYV_146's Avatar
 
YYV_146 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Durham, NC
Age: 32
Posts: 1,297
I still want an ILC version...Sinked too much funds into alpha and M lenses to afford another fixed lens body.
__________________
Victor is too lazy for DSLRs

Sony A7rII Kolari mod

Noctilux ASPH, 35lux FLE, 50 APO ASPH, 75 APO cron, 21lux, Sony/Minolta 135mm STF

500px
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-03-2014   #11
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
In a post further down in the thread.. I am not sure if Hulyss is saying that he likes the Fuji xt1 better than the Quattro if one is after the things about the Quattro that are better than the Merrill from the reference from the digiloyd evaluation..ie color may not be better, but af and higher iso is better as well as resolution. Color aliasing related issues not so good.

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/590137-post75.html

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-03-2014   #12
erichard44
Registered User
 
erichard44 is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: San Mateo, California
Posts: 30
There is a lot of dispute/debate on the dpr Sigma forum site about whether the q is not as good as, or better, or just different, compared to the Merrill, all on the basis of a few not always well processed images. Many people just love their Merrill, and want nothing but more of the same. The yodobashi images look very pleasing. The detail and color in some of the recent images posted elsewhere is amazing. This shows two low res images: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53958662
__________________
<a href='http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=2038'>My Gallery</a>
  Reply With Quote

French site w/ comparison between Sony a7r and Leica s
Old 07-07-2014   #13
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
French site w/ comparison between Sony a7r and Leica s

https://translate.google.com/transla...tml&edit-text=

Found this via one of the rumor sites (mirrorless rumors). They did various comparisons from iso to moire to color etc.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Another review - raw files available
Old 07-11-2014   #14
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
Another review - raw files available

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/si...o-review-25816

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

More first impressions
Old 07-11-2014   #15
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
More first impressions

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/showthread.php?t=30088

Looks like he likes it.. New grip not so much. Does not appear to be an improvement in af speed to him.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-11-2014   #16
Samoura´
Registered User
 
Samoura´'s Avatar
 
Samoura´ is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
http://www.seriouscompacts.com/showthread.php?t=30088

Looks like he likes it.. New grip not so much. Does not appear to be an improvement in af speed to him.

Gary
Those samples do look pretty great. Interest piqued again.
  Reply With Quote

Now I am not sure
Old 07-21-2014   #17
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
Now I am not sure

http://sigma-rumors.com/2014/07/sigm...on-blue-issue/

This post about the Quattro, now I am not sure about getting it..not that the Merrill was perfect either, ie., Jon's magenta skies. I think it maybe a algo related issue that could be fixed in spp...but because both the color and monochrome version of this issue should be a possible issue plus spp 6 still has a lot of complaints.. I am thinking about holding off now.

What do u think?
Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-21-2014   #18
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 56
Posts: 3,113
I think it is still too early for any definitive conclusions.

But it already hurts Sigma that the opening round of user feedback has been mixed, to say the least. The Fuji XP1 is a fine example of how hard it can be for a manufacturer to change the image of a product even with updates that address most of the big complaints.

In short, I would definitely hang back and wait for the dust to settle. I don't see yet any compelling reason to opt for a Q over one of the Merrills.

For the record, those were green skies (clouds, actually), not magenta ones. But overall, I've gotten so many keepers using the Merrill DP cameras for landscape, I have nothing to complain about. All the more so considering the astronomical price that I'd have paid to do the same thing with RVP-50, as I used to do until I got the Merrills. I'm very happy to keep using them for a few more years.
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-23-2014   #19
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
One interesting tidbit came out on one of the forums I follow. I can't remember where now, but someone mentioned that the Quattro has a new setting for limiting dynamic range which is defaulted to active. The op mentions that once he disabled it, the colors looks very close to the Merrill in his opinion.

In a recent thread on getdpi, someone used a third party mac uitility app and discovered that spp is still a 32 bit app and does not even use the GPUs for anything. The 32 bit part not surprised about, but not taking advantage of any gpu functions is..

I think spp is still buggy. I cancelled my order and decided to wait it out for a while to c how things go.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-23-2014   #20
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,425
Quote:
In a recent thread on getdpi, someone used a third party mac uitility app and discovered that spp is still a 32 bit app and does not even use the GPUs for anything. The 32 bit part not surprised about, but not taking advantage of any gpu functions is..
It is not because you are working on images that a GPU is a good choice for the algoritms involved. Without knowing those there is nothing sensible to say about that. Not having a 64bit version on the other hand is not excusable.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-23-2014   #21
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
Point taken.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-23-2014   #22
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 45
Posts: 19,735
Luckily, I'd only be interested in a DP1 version of this camera, so I have no choice but to wait.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-23-2014   #23
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
I don't have a dp3 so I think I will follow your lead and c how things turn out by the time they release the dp3q.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Merrill winner to me
Old 07-24-2014   #24
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,180
Merrill winner to me

http://outlivingblog.wordpress.com/2...-with-merrill/

Overall, I like the Merrill shots here better than the Quattro. I hope it is just spp needing some algo changes.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-24-2014   #25
Samoura´
Registered User
 
Samoura´'s Avatar
 
Samoura´ is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
http://outlivingblog.wordpress.com/2...-with-merrill/

Overall, I like the Merrill shots here better than the Quattro. I hope it is just spp needing some algo changes.

Gary
Nice comparisons. I'm really surprised by how much cleaner the BW files look coming out of the Merrill. Much more filmic. Perhaps that has something to do with SPP 6 being kind of a mess (can you isolate the Q's blue channel like we do with the Merrill?).

On the whole, the Merrills just look richer and more filmic. The Quattros are a bit sterile and shallow. The Q seems sharper. And for some reason all of his Q shots have a magenta cast. Must be processing, but what's the deal. The Q still looks pretty good in a lot of the shots. The last two landscapes are real head scratchers for me, because I like the color range I see in the Q.

That's how I'm seeing it right now, anyway. No Q for me unless a firmware update makes a big change to the output we're seeing.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:37.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.