film trimmers
Old 03-31-2014   #1
ulrich.von.lich
Registered User
 
ulrich.von.lich is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Algiers, Algeria
Posts: 270
film trimmers

hi,

i wonder why ltm cameras need films to be cut before being loaded.

once i loaded a uncut film in a leica ii and images actually turned out ok, with some minor but annoying alignment problem.

is it possible to buy a modern film trimmer without spending $$$ for the leitz one?

thanks in advance!

cheers
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #2
Ronald M
Registered User
 
Ronald M is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,497
A pair of scissors, 1" blades, for a short trim. Or a 2" blade and cut 22 sprocket holes off the top for the long trim required for 111G and older. Do not cut through the sprocket holes.

A slice down the center and then curve it 45 deg . The better way is to start at the top , curve, finish to end. Your eye is close enough. The curve must have no partial cut to start a tear. Keep it smooth.

The long trim will work in any camera. Short trim is ok for slr . A straight across is ok for a M2 or M3.

All the tricks to load a screw mt without the proper trim can be a problem. Do not do it.

Generic trimers work ok on the tongue for loading the camera. YOu NEED the proper Leica one to make a proper point for loading the Leica brass film cassettes. Anything else is close to impossible.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #3
Dez
Bodger Extraordinaire
 
Dez's Avatar
 
Dez is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Minnesota North Woods
Posts: 1,531
It's very easy to get the edge of a standard film leader caught on the edge of the film gate in a screwmount Leica, often resulting in film chips that can cause all sorts of havoc. Cutting it back with scissors to the dimensions shown on the bottom or baseplate of most old Leicas will do the trick. A genuine Leica ABLON trimmer costs a ridiculous amount of money for some reason which completely escapes me. It's fairly easy to make your own, or you can buy something like this:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rangefinder-L...994ee97&_uhb=1

I don't know this vendor, or how flexible the price is likely to be, but I bought one of these things new old stock about three years ago for, I think, $17.

Cheers,
Dez
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #4
anjoca76
Registered User
 
anjoca76's Avatar
 
anjoca76 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 611
I never trim mine. Never had a problem. I can see how it could potentially be problematic, but Youxin taught me to load it without trimming and his technique has served me well so far.
__________________
Andy

Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #5
Filzkoeter
stray dog
 
Filzkoeter's Avatar
 
Filzkoeter is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Berlin - Germany
Age: 33
Posts: 415
As Ronald said.
Pre-cut your rolls at home with some small scissors, you don't need a template for it. 20-22 sprockets is fine.
I don't like to mess around with dubios loading techniques like cards, open shutters + lens taken off etc.
Pre-cut film loads quite fast and comfortable. I tension the film, watch that the teeth catch the sprockets, close the bottom and shoot only _one_ blank frame. This way my IIIf gives me something like 39 frames on a 36 roll
__________________
-Miko

- flickr -
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #6
dufffader
Leicanaut/Nikonaut...
 
dufffader's Avatar
 
dufffader is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seoul
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
Generic trimers work ok on the tongue for loading the camera. YOu NEED the proper Leica one to make a proper point for loading the Leica brass film cassettes. Anything else is close to impossible.
To cut the "proper point" free hand in the dark, I fold the two edges of the film so that I have a mark indicating the mid point. Then I can cut roughly 30-45 degrees from there, giving me a nice pointed tip that almost always fits into IXMOOx and Nikon F cassettes.

I think that's an acceptable workaround to a $100 ABLON template.
__________________
-bt [Leicanaut & Nikonaut]
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #7
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,112
I have a trimmer, never use it. Count back 20 sprocket holes and start my cut between 21 and 20. Cut a nice curve with no tears and you are in business.

If you reload the IXMOO, just cut V-point in one end. It really doesn't need to be perfect, just good enough to snag in the spool notch. Takes longer for me to wind on the film.

EDIT - If you screw up, cut a bit off and start over. Or start your curve back between sprocket hole 24 and 23. It really is not the end of the world. In fact, you can screw up several times and loose very little film.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #8
CNNY
Registered User
 
CNNY's Avatar
 
CNNY is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,436
I've never trimmed film to use in my IIIc. I use a metrocard (in NYC, or a business card), and slip it in over the film gate. I then drop the film in behind it, push it down, and pull the card out. That is all.
When I roll my own, I leave the film edge on rolls for the IIIc, and M3 cut straight, so I don't need to fumble with scissors in the darkroom. It is just simpler that way.
__________________
instagram and some bits at
otopho on Shapeways
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #9
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNNY View Post
I've never trimmed film to use in my IIIc. I use a metrocard (in NYC, or a business card), and slip it in over the film gate. I then drop the film in behind it, push it down, and pull the card out. That is all.
When I roll my own, I leave the film edge on rolls for the IIIc, and M3 cut straight, so I don't need to fumble with scissors in the darkroom. It is just simpler that way.
Everybody has a method. If it works then go with it.

There are only two things I find odd. First; I have never seen a single diagram on any Barnack Leica that shows this method. Second; I have read about seven books that deal with the Barnack Leicas and, again, I have never found this method described in writing.

Trimming takes a few extra seconds. I trim. Kinda makes sense for me. I learned a long time ago that if a certain skill was needed then it made sense to practice it. I've been told that the old timers could load film while running through a crowd. I don't know about that, I think I may have a ways to go to get that good. But I can load film while walking down the driveway now.

Anyone else? Well they are welcome to do whatever works for them. They can take the lens off, put their shutter on "Bulb" or "Time" and poke their finger in the hole where that shutter belongs. Or they can stuff a card down into the middle of their camera and then feed their film through.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #10
anjoca76
Registered User
 
anjoca76's Avatar
 
anjoca76 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 611
"They can take the lens off, put their shutter on 'Bulb' or 'Time' and poke their finger in the hole where that shutter belongs."

Yup, this is what I do. Works like a charm. But, to each his own.
__________________
Andy

Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #11
charjohncarter
Registered User
 
charjohncarter's Avatar
 
charjohncarter is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Danville, CA, USA
Posts: 8,731
I've torn some that I've cut with scissors. Always, when trying to make a turn. So I measure and just make a straight diagonal cut.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #12
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,112
Yeah, I had to start over a few times when I was learning but I've gotten better.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #13
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 71
Posts: 2,533
Don't trim as much anymore. As i get older, hair and nails grow more slowly. And besides, I'm not out hustling any women anymore so I can let my whiskers grow, shaving every 4 to 6 days now!

I cut a longer leader with my Leica IIIf cameras.
__________________
I make photographs as a return ticket to a moment otherwise gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #14
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,112
I wish that worked! As I get older it gets coarser and my wife sends me back till I get it trimmed right.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #15
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 71
Posts: 2,533
Gotta get your better half trained! Ha! Mine is still working as a tax accountant so perhaps the tune will change after April 15th.

Have a great week!
__________________
I make photographs as a return ticket to a moment otherwise gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #16
CNNY
Registered User
 
CNNY's Avatar
 
CNNY is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
Everybody has a method. If it works then go with it.

There are only two things I find odd. First; I have never seen a single diagram on any Barnack Leica that shows this method. Second; I have read about seven books that deal with the Barnack Leicas and, again, I have never found this method described in writing.

Trimming takes a few extra seconds. I trim. Kinda makes sense for me. I learned a long time ago that if a certain skill was needed then it made sense to practice it. I've been told that the old timers could load film while running through a crowd. I don't know about that, I think I may have a ways to go to get that good. But I can load film while walking down the driveway now.

Anyone else? Well they are welcome to do whatever works for them. They can take the lens off, put their shutter on "Bulb" or "Time" and poke their finger in the hole where that shutter belongs. Or they can stuff a card down into the middle of their camera and then feed their film through.
I would love to take credit for inventing it, but in truth I read it here on RFF. It was in a thread like this one, and it was followed by comments like "why would I want to bother fumbling with a card if I can just remove the lens and poke my finger through the shutter?".
I would have been eying it with a scissors like I do with bulk rolls I use in my M6, but I tried the card thing first. Now I don't need to have film ends tailored for each of my cameras. I can just grab a bunch of film and toss it in a bag with which ever camera is the flavor of the day.
Try it, it is easy...

EDIT:
I just checked youtube, and while there are a few videos that show the traditional loading method nicely, there are a couple of alternative method ones (with a lot of views), that make a complete hash of it....Oh boy.
__________________
instagram and some bits at
otopho on Shapeways
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #17
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNNY View Post
I would love to take credit for inventing it, but in truth I read it here on RFF. It was in a thread like this one, and it was followed by comments like "why would I want to bother fumbling with a card if I can just remove the lens and poke my finger through the shutter?".
I would have been eying it with a scissors like I do with bulk rolls I use in my M6, but I tried the card thing first. Now I don't need to have film ends tailored for each of my cameras. I can just grab a bunch of film and toss it in a bag with which ever camera is the flavor of the day.
Try it, it is easy...

EDIT:
I just checked youtube, and while there are a few videos that show the traditional loading method nicely, there are a couple of alternative method ones (with a lot of views), that make a complete hash of it....Oh boy.
Oh, I am really just joshing people. Loading a Barnack is famous for being a PITA. I have tried the card and never could get used to it. Since I reload most of the time I just trim all my film ends to fit a Barnack. They still work fine for my other cameras and now that I am in the habit it is no big deal.

But, as you said, you do whatever works for you.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #18
jja
Registered User
 
jja is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 572
Anyone have a photo of the cutting technique? I am about to take delivery of my first Barnack and you guys are worrying me!
__________________
My Flickr

My RFF Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #19
Tony Whitney
Registered User
 
Tony Whitney is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 231
My Leica Manual from 1935 has illustrations of trimming the film using the Leitz template. In the illustrations, the cutting is always done with a sharp pocket knife, something people always used to carry with them, as I do today. Once you've cut it a time or two, you can do it by eye and some of the old Leica books state just that. I seem to remember that years ago, there were cheap Leitz trimmer copies on the market and I've seen one or two in recent times. I always do it by eye though - the trim doesn't have to be that accurate. Just don't cut through the perforations. I've used screw mount Leicas since the 1960s and still have a couple of very usable examples, not to mention a Fed or two...TW
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2014   #20
George Bonanno
-
 
George Bonanno is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northern New Jersey & Vũng Tu
Posts: 566
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-01-2014   #21
jja
Registered User
 
jja is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 572
Thanks George! That doesn't look too difficult.
__________________
My Flickr

My RFF Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-01-2014   #22
summar
Registered User
 
summar is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 298
I never trimmed the leader on film for my IIIf and never had any trouble. Then I read a post by LTM expert Roger Hicks saying that this may work many times but something is bound to go wrong sometime, with dire results. So now I use the genuine ABLON template I'm lucky to have in my kit.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-01-2014   #23
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 9,069
I used Leica IIc, IIf, and IIIf for 15 years and never once did anything special with trimming the film leader. Never had any problems. Just have to load them carefully ...

G
  Reply With Quote

Imitation ABLONs
Old 04-01-2014   #24
Robert Lai
Registered User
 
Robert Lai is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,635
Imitation ABLONs

I have two of those ABLON imitations. One was made in Korea. It came with some darkroom gear I found at an estate sale. I think it was basically free. At the time I had no idea what it was for, but I kept it. When I finally got a Barnack, the light bulb went off as to how fortunate I was to have it. I had been using scissors before, but it's a pain with the film's desire to curl. At least the pseudo-ABLON keeps it flat. The second one is a "Prinz" one, just like the ebay auction that DEZ pointed out. I think that one cost a "prinzly" $10 last year on RFF. The Prinz is still in its original unopened packaging.

The only downside of the Korean imitation ABLONs is that they are made of Aluminum. The metal on the curve gets eroded by the knife passes if you use it a lot. I'm not sure what the original ABLON was made of, but judging by its current price you'd think it was made out of stainless steel coated with platinum and diamonds.

Sure, you may get away without ever trimming the leader until one day your camera jams up due to a film chip getting into something. DAG tells me that he cleans out a lot of film chips in these cameras when they come in for service.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-01-2014   #25
ChrisLivsey
Registered User
 
ChrisLivsey's Avatar
 
ChrisLivsey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,066
I find it rather satisfying to use the ABLON template but freehand works just as well. A piece of surgical tape is my answer for FILCA and IXMOO beats fishing out that bit of film ever time.
__________________
Fishing for shadows in a pool.
Louis Macneice

http://www.flickr.com/photos/red_eyes_man/
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-02-2014   #26
doolittle
Registered User
 
doolittle's Avatar
 
doolittle is offline
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ireland
Age: 47
Posts: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjoca76 View Post
"They can take the lens off, put their shutter on 'Bulb' or 'Time' and poke their finger in the hole where that shutter belongs."

Yup, this is what I do. Works like a charm. But, to each his own.
+1. Nice and simple, no special equipment needed. Technique recommended to me by a person who repairs cameras (I know that doesn't count as a qualification and maybe he was just drumming up business ). Works like a charm for me too.
__________________
--

fixerofshadows.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-02-2014   #27
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,461
The important part is not to cut through a perforation.

There seem to be several not-made-by-Leitz out there (and one or two not-made-by-Zeiss for the Contax) and they all work.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-03-2014   #28
NeeZee
Registered User
 
NeeZee is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 40
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
The important part is not to cut through a perforation.
This. I've been shooting a few hundred films with my iiif over the last 6 years or so. Always using scissors to cut the film. After a few times I even stopped counting holes, just roughly estimating. The only time I had a problem was on my second roll of film - I cut through a perforation and a piece of film got stuck between the shutter curtains. So that's really all you have to take care of...
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-03-2014   #29
Luddite Frank
Registered User
 
Luddite Frank's Avatar
 
Luddite Frank is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,439
I have been using a pair of Revlon cuticle scissors since getting my first Barnack, about 7 years back. I pull about four fingers-worth (measured at the middle-knuckle) of film from the cassette, and cut the scallop free-hand, from the cassette towards the free end.

I have an ABLON knock-off that came with a Watson-66 bulk loader - I tried it once and decided it was more trouble than it was worth. It is buried somewhere deep in the camera closet.

I have also tried loading modern film as-is... with dodgy results.

I pre-trim a half-dozen rolls at a time, and always have the cuticle scissors in my screw-mount kit.

I have also had the film split, with one-half getting wound-into the shutter curtain on a very nice black III...

It seems that every one has a pet method... I prefer Leica's recommendation, and it has never given me trouble.

LF
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-04-2014   #30
screwthread
Registered User
 
screwthread's Avatar
 
screwthread is offline
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 15
I use an ABLON to trim the film, I used to shoot a lot with the Leica II ,I got to the stage where I could load the camera fine whilst walking down the street, but not run!
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-04-2014   #31
Spicy
Registered User
 
Spicy is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DC
Age: 32
Posts: 671
I pull the film out and count to 13 sprout holes on the short end (I heard that was 20 on the long side). Pull one out just for good measure (making 14 total on the short end) and then carefully trim between the 13th and 14th holes. Never had an issue with film tears or anything... Well not anything that was the cameras fault lol.
__________________
ID7P0M2F854Ior+50PdV3MSFcC05MNC00
[:] [']
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2016   #32
revdoug
Registered User
 
revdoug is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
I have a trimmer, never use it. Count back 20 sprocket holes and start my cut between 21 and 20. Cut a nice curve with no tears and you are in business.

If you reload the IXMOO, just cut V-point in one end. It really doesn't need to be perfect, just good enough to snag in the spool notch. Takes longer for me to wind on the film.

EDIT - If you screw up, cut a bit off and start over. Or start your curve back between sprocket hole 24 and 23. It really is not the end of the world. In fact, you can screw up several times and loose very little film.
If your 2nd 10,000 photos are not to your liking, just re-do the 1st 10,000.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:32.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.