Agfa APX 100 & 400 back for good - new batch!!!
Old 07-18-2013   #1
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Agfa APX 100 & 400 back for good - new batch!!!

Yes it's true as per Mirko of ADOX/Fotoimpex (the maker of Rodinal):

As per Frau Google Translate:

Quote:
Like

Mirko Boeddecker
Yesterday, 17:39
AGFAPAN_APX_100.jpg 198.76 K downloaded: 3 times
Tomorrow is the last original lupus Leverkusen APX 100 in the trade.
From 1 August, they then supply the APX 100 and APX 400 from NEW.
We have added the new prices today, but only in a few days to get the goods.
We had quite a few films from the pre-production testing. Here are the new development times:
APX 100 NEW in Adonal (Rodinal) 1 +25: 5:30 minutes
APX 100 NEW in Adonal (Rodinal) 1 +50: 10:00 minutes

APX 400 NEW in Adonal (Rodinal) 1 +25: 11:30 minutes
APX 400 NEW in Adonal (Rodinal) 1 +50: 21:00 minutes

APX 100 NEW in ATOMAL stock solution: 9:30 minutes
APX 400 NEW in ATOMAL stock solution: 10:30 minutes
Best regards,
Mirko
Per:
http://forum.fotoimpex.de/index.php?...214#entry16214

Any German folk out there know anymore intel?
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Old 07-18-2013   #2
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Argh, I hate such behavior.
Same packaging for a different film, indistinguishable from the original.
And no one seems to know what's inside ...

I'm still not convinced one can trust Lupus entirely ...
Time will tell.
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Old 07-18-2013   #3
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With an insidious name like Lupus, could it be that good?
The disease is horrible, using the body's immune system against selective tissues. Sometimes, it never flares. Sometimes it causes conditions that can kill.
One would think that someone in marketing would have looked up lupus (aside from the canine species group) and thought more about something else as a name.

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Old 07-18-2013   #4
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If true it will be great news, the development times seem similar. Haempe I don't trust Lupus much either as they are just a distribution company–although in this case the news comes from Mirko at Fotoimpex, who I do actually trust and has a proven track record in trying to resurrect old materials.

That said I realise he isn't responsible for the fabrication of the new films.
My German is poor, but from what I'm reading the old Leverkusen APX from 2006 marketed by Lupus is almost gone, I didn't see where this new stuff originates from; the romantic in me would like Agfa Mortsel to be the coater, the pragmatist says Foma or Ilford.

Phill 'Lupus' is mediaeval Latin for wolf.

I'll try some before I place my judgement.
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Old 07-18-2013   #5
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It just means that from now on it's guaranteed that AgfaPhoto APX is definitely NOT old Agfa made APX. Right?!
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Old 07-18-2013   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
It just means that from now on it's guaranteed that AgfaPhoto APX is definitely NOT old Agfa made APX. Right?!
No, and thats the problem.
How to keep the old one's (which is still around in the market) apart from the new's when using the same packing?
Processing times differ noticeably.
One can only hope they indicate the version in some kind...
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Old 07-18-2013   #7
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Am I the only one who like the agfaphoto apx 100 very much?
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Old 07-18-2013   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haempe View Post
One can only hope they indicate the version in some kind...
By edge marks, once it's developed?
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Old 07-18-2013   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogelgelbo View Post
Am I the only one who like the agfaphoto apx 100 very much?
No, you aren't. I guess people who don't care for APX will not bother with this thread.

But the "new APX" will simply NOT be APX, but something completely different packaged in APX cartridges and boxes. Lupus own the rights to the name and can put in there whatever they like.

That's why I cannot get excited about it. If it were at least some Adox remake, I'd be thrilled, but the one thing Mirko is obviously allowed to say about this new film is that it's not made by them.
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Old 07-19-2013   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogelgelbo View Post
Am I the only one who like the agfaphoto apx 100 very much?
The old one? - NO! My favourite film. But it's dead.
As for the new - we will see whats in the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by btgc View Post
By edge marks, once it's developed?
lol... but in a desparate way...
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Old 07-19-2013   #11
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I used to use APX 400 a lot; this stuff cannot be the same, the Rodinal 1+50 time they list is DOUBLE the time the old version I used required. They're saying 21 minutes at 1+50? That's insane, I cannot think of any film by any manufacturer needing such a long developing time in Rodinal 1+50. APX 400 used to require 10 minutes.
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Old 07-19-2013   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
I used to use APX 400 a lot; this stuff cannot be the same, the Rodinal 1+50 time they list is DOUBLE the time the old version I used required. They're saying 21 minutes at 1+50? That's insane, I cannot think of any film by any manufacturer needing such a long developing time in Rodinal 1+50. APX 400 used to require 10 minutes.
It's near the Kentmere times from MDC...
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Old 07-19-2013   #13
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APX has been newly packaged old stock ever since its return (or so I'm told) so was always going to run out. At least there will be another film in its place. So in my book this is a good thing.
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Old 07-19-2013   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haempe View Post
No, and thats the problem.
How to keep the old one's (which is still around in the market) apart from the new's when using the same packing?
Processing times differ noticeably.
One can only hope they indicate the version in some kind...
I was thinking of the endless debate of trying to answer what's inside the currently available AgfaPhoto APX 100. Is/was it really old stock of Agfa made APX?

Now people will know this is NOT old Agfa APX. Provided that they buy it from Fotoimpex that stated they will only sell new APX and at significantly higher price. I guess that other sellers will be able to tell their customers what they are buying, too.

Sure, we will probably again be guessing who makes the new APX, but one thing is certain - it's not Agfa APX.
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Old 07-19-2013   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j j View Post
APX has been newly packaged old stock ever since its return (or so I'm told) so was always going to run out. At least there will be another film in its place. So in my book this is a good thing.
The hope dies last.
I expect a repacked already available film...
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Old 07-19-2013   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
...
Now people will know this is NOT old Agfa APX. Provided that they buy it from Fotoimpex that stated they will only sell new APX and at significantly higher price. I guess that other sellers will be able to tell their customers what they are buying, too.

Sure, we will probably again be guessing who makes the new APX, but one thing is certain - it's not Agfa APX.
... in a few months - yes.
Fotoimpex still sells their last 1000 rolls of the old version.
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Old 07-19-2013   #17
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I've still 10 rolls of the regular stuff, I'll try the new film when they are gone. If it's not my taste I'm going to shoot silvermax which is an excellent film really.

And +1 for APX100 being the favorite ISO100 (and also pushed to 200) film here.
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Old 07-19-2013   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k__43 View Post
I've still 10 rolls of the regular stuff, I'll try the new film when they are gone. If it's not my taste I'm going to shoot silvermax which is an excellent film really.

And +1 for APX100 being the favorite ISO100 (and also pushed to 200) film here.
Yes, not that hard to find a decent 35mm 100 ISO film.
But I miss APX100 in 120 and sheet...
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Old 07-19-2013   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haempe View Post
... in a few months - yes.
Fotoimpex still sells their last 1000 rolls of the old version.

the new price is interesting .. I'm going to pass on this. I know the previous price was probably way too low but I'm not paying that much for it.
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Old 07-19-2013   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haempe View Post
Yes, not that hard to find a decent 35mm 100 ISO film.
But I miss APX100 in 120 and sheet...
where did you get it in those formats in the last 3 years?
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Old 07-19-2013   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k__43 View Post
where did you get it in those formats in the last 3 years?
Nowhere... but it still hurts.
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Old 07-19-2013   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clayne View Post
Heh heh Silvermax is APX 100.
yeah I figured, some sort of older version tho. I developed a silvermax and an APX roll in the same tank and the silvermax seemed a tiny bit thin. I'd rate it 80 for the same dev times in Rodinal.
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Old 07-19-2013   #23
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Another "game to find the truth" in what Fotoimpex is saying... When was it that they said their 400 Iso film is "just around the corner"...
( a year, two years... three years ?)
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Old 07-19-2013   #24
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Originally Posted by Rangefinderfreak View Post
Another "game to find the truth" in what Fotoimpex is saying... When was it that they said their 400 Iso film is "just around the corner"...
( a year, two years... three years ?)
In the link posted by the OP Mirko explains again, that they can't produce the 400 for a market compatible price.
So the project is skipped...
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Old 07-19-2013   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haempe View Post
In the link posted by the OP Mirko explains again, that they can't produce the 400 for a market compatible price.
So the project is skipped...
I think the truth and explanation is that they cannot afford the master roll that kentmere requires for "own brand" of 400 iso film. Maco has it in 35mm and 120... both in 100 iso and 400 iso versions...
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Old 07-19-2013   #26
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Originally Posted by Rangefinderfreak View Post
I think the truth and explanation is that they cannot afford the master roll that kentmere requires for "own brand" of 400 iso film. Maco has it in 35mm and 120... both in 100 iso and 400 iso versions...
This implication is a little bit too mean for my taste...
But yes, the occurrence of Kentmere in the market has changed the situation.
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Old 07-19-2013   #27
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IMO Lupus does with the APX line what they already have done with CN and slide film - selling a different film under the same designation.
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Old 07-19-2013   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haempe View Post
No, and thats the problem.
How to keep the old one's (which is still around in the market) apart from the new's when using the same packing?
Processing times differ noticeably.
One can only hope they indicate the version in some kind...
Calm down, who says the packaging will be the same? The pictures linked in the post by Mirko are just random dummy pictures from their web shop, it is so plain obvious as the box still shows the original "Agfa" (not Agfaphoto) trademark which Lupus Media surely will not be allowed to use.
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Old 07-19-2013   #29
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Calm down...
Will do.
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Old 07-19-2013   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangefinderfreak View Post
I think the truth and explanation is that they cannot afford the master roll that kentmere requires for "own brand" of 400 iso film.
Forgive me for being blunt, but this is bull****. And what exactly is your agenda? Spreading FUD?
Fotoimpex have already developed their own emulsion ISO400 film, it was coated by INOVISCOAT and the first run actually started to sell through their web shop about two years ago, but the project was put on ice due to some technical/production related issues and because of being not economically viable at the moment.
So, the ISO400 (Adoxpan) project by Fotoimpex does exist and is part of a very difficult effort to bring new film products to market, and that alone is an achievement that is worth much more than anything that MACO has ever done, which is more or less simply rebadging, repackaging and reselling whatever material they are getting their hands on.
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Old 07-19-2013   #31
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What ever it will be - you have to pay 40 % more for the new stuff.
Insane!
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Old 07-19-2013   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
I used to use APX 400 a lot; this stuff cannot be the same, the Rodinal 1+50 time they list is DOUBLE the time the old version I used required. They're saying 21 minutes at 1+50? That's insane, I cannot think of any film by any manufacturer needing such a long developing time in Rodinal 1+50. APX 400 used to require 10 minutes.

Strangely enough Chris 21 mins at 1:50 in Rodinal is very similar to as the old APX 400 (pre 2003) and although it seems insane in fact matches Agfa recommendations for that film development combo in the 1980's and 90's
Here is a quick scan from a 1990's Rodinal data sheet.



So that time won't be considered insane by those of us old enough to remember the old APX 400 from the last century.
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Old 07-19-2013   #33
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Yes, before this new "NEW" there has already been a APX400NEW before Agfaphoto folded up.
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Old 07-19-2013   #34
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Yes I was aware of that, just reminding Chris that the version prior to 2003 needed 20 mins in Rodinal 1:50.
The 2003-demise version was different, there was a whole warehouse full of that stuff-not sure what Lupus have been selling recently, could be Mortsel, Wolfen or any other EU factory.
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Old 07-19-2013   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clayne View Post
Uh, this isn't the case.
March 2013 price : 2,61 EUR
new price : 3,81 EUR
hurts and makes pretty much 45 per cent increase.
Insane!
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Old 07-19-2013   #36
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Wow! I am even more excited hearing that the APX 400 might be more like the pre-2003 formulation! Thabks Photo-Smith for the intel! I've never tried the 400, but the APX 100 I've been shooting as of late, is just magic in Rodinal 1+50. Lets hope some US importer can get a sweetheart deal. Heck we have all seen the threads where UK folks buy Ilford film from the US and still come out ahead. I'm going to reserve my judgement till 1) a new roll of this stuff is in hand 2) it checks out like the old stuff and last 3) the price is right.......hopefully bulk rolls are possible to offset....
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Old 07-19-2013   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merumeni View Post
March 2013 price : 2,61 EUR
new price : 3,81 EUR
hurts and makes pretty much 45 per cent increase.
Insane!
Not actually insane. Film has become a specialty product. Kodak and Fuji show that mega volume production can't work anymore. Mirko is approaching this differently (wisely IMO) with a smaller scale method, which does cost more.

I am a big supporter of Adox for this reason. Everyone who is looking at a way forward for silver materials deserves our support, and Adox is really putting a lot on the line.
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Old 07-19-2013   #38
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Well said ^
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Old 07-19-2013   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merumeni View Post
March 2013 price : 2,61 EUR
new price : 3,81 EUR
hurts and makes pretty much 45 per cent increase.
Insane!
No, that is not at all insane. It is exactly the opposite.
Because:
Old AgfaPhoto APX 100, the material Lupus Imaging offered the last years, was all material from insolvency at Agfa in Leverkusen Germany. They bought this films extremely cheap, for less than the manufacturing costs at Agfa.
That was the reason why this film could be sold at such extremely low prices for all the years.
No one today can make a fresh BW film so cheap that he could sell it for 2,60 and make a profit from it.

Lupus Imaging now have to buy new stuff, and at today's real manufacturing costs.
Therefore they have to raise prices.

As for the new stuff: Concerning Lupus' statement it is made in Europe.
My guess it is from Ilford, because Agfa-Gevaert has no panchromatic ISO 100 and 400 film in their portfolio, Foma has exclusive contracts with FS, Adox still cannot coat any film in their plant on an industrial level (official information from Adox), and Filmotec also has other contracts which forbid them such a deal.

For those who want to continue using the original Agfa APX emulsion: Just use Adox Silvermax, it is almost identical. You cannot divide results from both films in a side by side comparison.

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Old 07-19-2013   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photo_Smith View Post
Yes I was aware of that, just reminding Chris that the version prior to 2003 needed 20 mins in Rodinal 1:50.
The 2003-demise version was different, there was a whole warehouse full of that stuff-not sure what Lupus have been selling recently, could be Mortsel, Wolfen or any other EU factory.
I just dug out AGFA tech publications from 1999 and 2002 and both say the developing time is 11 minutes at 68(20C) degrees for APX 400 in Rodinal 1+50.

Interestingly, I have two Rodinal instruction sheets (the sheets that come in the Rodinal package), both say the chemical is made by A&O Imaging solutions and that they're using the AGFA name under license. These are pretty recent. One says the time should be 20 minutes and the other says it should be an absolutely insane 30 minutes (both for Rodinal 1+50 at 68 degrees for APX 400). These do not have dates marked on them.
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