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Fujifilm x100f for street photography at night.
Old 04-24-2018   #1
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Fujifilm x100f for street photography at night.

Hello

I am using a film camera for my shooting when there is light.

Lately, I discovered that street photography during night can be really thrilling. I am using a Ricoh grd2 from 2007. Unfortunately to have any results I need to use flash for getting any decent results. I am using digital since it is safer to use at night due to higher iso capabilities.

Flash can have interesting results but some times you don’t want to ruin the lights that create a more subtle effect than the edgy style of flash.

How does x100f work at night without using flash?

Its f2 lens is certainly better than the Ricoh gr2 lens that I would think as a contender.

Any input?
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Old 04-24-2018   #2
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Delta 3200 and the recently released Tmax 3200 are still great options for film street at night.

I've shot a ton of delta 3200 at night and can fully recommend it.

I did shoot a fair bit of low light with the X100t when I had it and I can say that at 3200 the files are fairly workable.

phone edit*
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Old 04-24-2018   #3
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Well, I find you can use ISO 6400 and the autofocus works well down to about -2EV. I think it is pretty good.

Here's one I made at night with the X100F...

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Old 04-24-2018   #4
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Thank you all ... pretty nice samples. I got it now what it can do.

Many thanx
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Old 04-25-2018   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kupepe View Post
...

Its f2 lens is certainly better than the Ricoh gr2 lens that I would think as a contender.

....
Not really. While the Fuji lens is a stop faster, optically, the Ricoh GRII lens is amazing. The Fuji lens is merely very good to excellent.
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Old 04-25-2018   #6
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I would recommend the Coolpix A or Ricoh GR with aps-c sensors. Great in low light and amazing colours.
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Old 04-25-2018   #7
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The GR does have the better lens when it comes to the internet’s favorite (or second behind bokeh) lens attribute ... sharpness. However, neither the GR or the Coolpix A can focus fast in low light. The X100F is the superior camera at night at this point. The other two are effectively 5 years old.
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Old 04-25-2018   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Here's one I made at night with the X100F...
That is a superb photo, jsrockit!
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Old 04-25-2018   #9
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Plus, I find the Fuji small/light enough that handholding at slower shutter speeds is a snap
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Old 04-25-2018   #10
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That is a superb photo, jsrockit!
Thank you sir.
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Old 04-25-2018   #11
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To maximize the X100F's low-light performance:
  • use raw files
  • use ISO 800 or higher, but never below 800
  • intentionally use a shutter speed and, or aperture that overexposes unimportant highlight regions; usually point-light sources
  • during post-production let shadow regions be shadows; avoid the temptation to excessively push shadow-region brightness.

With raw files, highlight region overexposure is better than underexposure for the rest of the scene. When ambient light levels are low, the main noise source is photon (a.k.a. shot) noise. There is nothing we can do to minimize photon noise except increase exposure (shutter time and aperture). I work in manual exposure mode and auto-bracket three aperture exposures. Most often I use 0, +1/3 and -1/3 steps. In post production I keep the raw file that retains important highlight region detail and delete the other two.

Withe raw files, the meter reading is not particularly useful in low light. I typically use ISO 800 and just set the shutter speed and aperture as needed. A 3 to 4 stop global brightness push in post-production often delivers a useful rendering. The primary disadvantage is in-camera image review becomes impractical.

In low light levels, increasing ISO only increases global image brightness after the shutter closes. This can not increase exposure so it will not minimize photon noise levels. However increasing ISO is required if you prefer in-camera JPEGs.

The shutter speed for the X-series cameras may need to be at lest a half stop faster than you use for film.

I like to use the OVF in low light.

I like to use f 2.8 as the minimum aperture number for street work in low light.

For extreme conditions I render the raw files in B&W. The photon noise can be rendered to simulate film grain.

I never uses in-camera JPEGs, so I don't have experience with those.
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Old 04-25-2018   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
The GR does have the better lens when it comes to the internet’s favorite (or second behind bokeh) lens attribute ... sharpness. However, neither the GR or the Coolpix A can focus fast in low light. The X100F is the superior camera at night at this point. The other two are effectively 5 years old.
Ah, another internet favorite - camera needs to be new.
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Old 04-25-2018   #13
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Ah, another internet favorite - camera needs to be new.
Yeah. People often love my low light shots I made with a vintage 2005 Nikon D2HS. Surely a good photo can't be made with only 4MP coming out of a camera a decade old.
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Old 04-25-2018   #14
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On the other hand, I often do VERY long exposures (typically four minutes but I have done some for 15 or more minutes) and there is a world of improvements between my 2006-era D80 and my newer cameras. With the D80, crystal-clear night skies suddenly get a greenish glow as if the Northern Lights are visible.

But that's a different type of situation than the OP is asking about.
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Old 04-25-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
Yeah. People often love my low light shots I made with a vintage 2005 Nikon D2HS. Surely a good photo can't be made with only 4MP coming out of a camera a decade old.
Phil Forrest
I didn't struggle with 2005 Canon 5D and no problems with 2008 500D for night photography.

In terms of new, I'd rather get camera with inbody stabilization and fast prime. Where are new MFT cameras with good ISO6400 and stabilization (not always expensive) and fast and wide lenses like Lux 15 1.7 (not Leica M priced ).

Nikon A has good MF implementation and GRII has one button focus preset.
This makes difference in any light. But if you have dark scene with no contrast to detect, no AF itself is going to help. AF assist beam will.
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Old 04-25-2018   #16
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Ah, another internet favorite - camera needs to be new.
I did not say that. My point is that people will say the GR's lens is better and they always mean sharper. Well, both are sharp enough for most people's photography. I would imagine attributes such as lens speed and focal length are better determining factors regarding if a lens is better suited for a particular person than pure sharpness (especially when both are good enough). He asked about one new camera and one 5 year old model. Whether we like it or not, a brand new digital camera will show progress vs. a 5 year old camera in several key areas that help at night. This does not mean older cameras cannot do something. He asked specifically about the GR vs. the X100F. I've used both... he didn't ask about the Nikon D2HS or the Canon Rebel.

Despite what you and Phil said, I did not say the GR (or older cameras) cannot make a photo at night. I just think the X100F will make it easier on you in many situations ... many hand held situations. Yes, the AF works down to -2EV. WORKS WELL. WORKS FAST. IS reliable.

Have either of you used this camera (or the GR) or are you just assuming you know better than those who have?
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Old 04-25-2018   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
Yeah. People often love my low light shots I made with a vintage 2005 Nikon D2HS. Surely a good photo can't be made with only 4MP coming out of a camera a decade old.
Phil Forrest
Yeah, Phil... that's exactly what I said. The OP specifically asked about two cameras (both of which I have used extensively).
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Old 04-25-2018   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I didn't struggle with 2005 Canon 5D and no problems with 2008 500D for night photography.
You have repeatedly told us about your low standards in photography though...

Quote:
In terms of new, I'd rather get camera with inbody stabilization and fast prime. Where are new MFT cameras with good ISO6400 and stabilization (not always expensive) and fast and wide lenses like Lux 15 1.7 (not Leica M priced ).
Which m43 body preforms well up to 6400 with stabilization? Stabilization isn't great in all situations... mostly situations were a monopod or tripod would work.

Quote:
Nikon A has good MF implementation and GRII has one button focus preset. This makes difference in any light.
The Coolpix A does not have great AF even in regular light. Also, the snap focus of the GR works ok when you don't have the lens wide open... at F2.8 on an APSC sensor, you are either going to be in focus or not. You will miss an awful lot using this method at night.

Quote:
But if you have dark scene with no contrast to detect, no AF itself is going to help.
True, but I quoted a value of -2EV and that's pretty low. Not many scenes that lack contrast past this level are going to come up. If they do, all cameras will struggle... even manual focus.

The bottom line is that you have not used the cameras you are talking about and you are doing the OP a disservice by making assumptions.
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Old 04-25-2018   #19
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You are talking about me having low standards? Owning camera in question doesn't mean using it to prove something. Your image proves nothing about fast AF in -2EV.
Here is 2005 5D at night.
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...RsAJOWmCRFRt2A
And 500D from 2008, at night.
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...CHcnem9UQiL6cU

Yes, where are MFT with fine IS0 6400 and 5-axis image stabilization. Since 2016. What tripod has to do with street photography? Handheld with 1/15 and IS does. And modern cameras with IS will recognize which axis to stabilize once camera in the pan mode. Do you know what pan mode is in street photogaphy?

And CoolPic A is not slow camera for the street. My buddy in Moscow does it with this camera and does it great, not just like you show us here. He even does it with some old MFT and MF Oly 15mm pancake. Boris Kireev. I suggest to learn about him, before lecturing here about Coolpix A AF and street photography.
We just had GRII, CoolPix A talk about street photography with him and other good folks I know. Here is one who used old Ricoh camera for trip to India. In the real night:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/115439...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/115439...in/dateposted/

BTW, OP has 50 1.4 lens, with films BLKRCAT has mentioned and with Kodak Ultramax 400 @800, he'll be just fine
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Old 04-25-2018   #20
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"Old" cameras. There seems to be a lot of people on RFF using old cameras--old Leicas, old Contaxes (is that the right spelling?), old view cameras and old Rolleis (again, spelling?). This seems to be the place for "old" technology (and old farts like me as well).

I expect better performance might be possible 5 years from now so maybe we should just wait and buy the future technology since we want the best performance possible. I know, we're getting into the area of ridiculousness. But really, I've never once thought about going back and reshooting my best pictures from 10 years ago just because I have better cameras today. And some of those old pictures were done with 8MP DSLRs, tiny sensor pocket cameras and cardboard/plastic Kodak disposables.

There's a point at which the technology is "good enough". Good enough dynamic range, good enough AF, good enough build quality--good enough camera. There's always going to be one that's better. You'll go nuts chasing after the best.

Oh, yeah. Back to the OP's original question. For night time shooting without flash--something I don't do much of--I would probably pick the current Fuji X100F. I have a couple of the older models of the camera and they're two of my favorite cameras because of the handling (I think they call it "user interface" nowadays). I was just pointing out that the Ricoh GRII has a great lens that, in my experience, is a bit better than the Fuji lens.
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Old 04-25-2018   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Delta 3200 and the recently released Tmax 3200 are still great options for film street at night.

I've shot a ton of delta 3200 at night and can fully recommend it.

I did shoot a fair bit of low light with the X100t when I had it and I can say that at 3200 the files are fairly workable.

phone edit*
wonderful image, really beautiful! Shot with 3200?
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Old 04-25-2018   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Delta 3200 and the recently released Tmax 3200 are still great options for film street at night.

I've shot a ton of delta 3200 at night and can fully recommend it.

I did shoot a fair bit of low light with the X100t when I had it and I can say that at 3200 the files are fairly workable.

phone edit*
This is a X100F or a film photo ? Great colours and the feel I am looking for during the night shoots.
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Old 04-25-2018   #23
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Thank you all for the replies.

My issue with the GRD2 that I have now, is that without flash I get blurry images. I shoot in P mode with snap focus to make things simple and fast but there is not enough light without a flash so the camera takes looong exposure times to compensate. It has a CCD sensor, which is supposed to have certain advantages in low light conditions to CMOS, but that applies after the photo being taken I guess. Besides AF, I thought that the faster lens of Fuji would help me get more light and thus not need flash.
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Old 04-26-2018   #24
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Having shot a bit of night street with the GRD III, I can say that the f1.9 lens and reasonable ISO 1600 make it quite acceptable in this regard. The small sensor means that you don't have the depth of field focus issues of an aps-c sensor, and Snap focus is fast as usual.

I know you're keen on the X100F, but maybe look at a secondhand GRD III or IV. The X100 series is great, but there's nothing like a tiny camera that you can palm or pocket in an instant.
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Old 04-26-2018   #25
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Originally Posted by Kupepe View Post
Thank you all for the replies.

My issue with the GRD2 that I have now, is that without flash I get blurry images. I shoot in P mode with snap focus to make things simple and fast but there is not enough light without a flash so the camera takes looong exposure times to compensate. It has a CCD sensor, which is supposed to have certain advantages in low light conditions to CMOS, but that applies after the photo being taken I guess. Besides AF, I thought that the faster lens of Fuji would help me get more light and thus not need flash.
Whatever little difference the CCD makes over a CMOS is neglected by the 1.7'' sensor size. Meanwhile I find the current generation of Fuji sensor to be technically better than the full frame one in my Leica M Typ 262.

I had GRD II, III, the GR, the original X100 and the X100F. The X100F's native autofocus capability in low light is light years beyond the X100 & GR (even with their AF assit beams ON), which again are a tad better than the old GRDs.

Go to a camera store, try one, and get ready to be amazed by what a modern camera can do. Technology advancement does make a difference in this case.
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Old 04-26-2018   #26
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You are talking about me having low standards? Owning camera in question doesn't mean using it to prove something. Your image proves nothing about fast AF in -2EV.
Ko.Fe... you do not even use your digital M on raw or at full file resolution. That is what I meant about lower standards. It's ok. It is your choice, but someone else may expect more.

Regarding my image, this is true... sorry, to have offended you with my horrible example image. But I actually came upon the scene, brought the camera to my eye quickly, and made the image before the man moved. It does not have to be sports action for a moment to disappear quickly. He only stopped for that second. I photograph while constantly walking as well. However, I never said it was an indication of what the AF can do... I was just showing an image I liked that I took at night with the X100F. Before you decided to come in here and crap on the thread, I was trying to help the OP with real information, not information I gathered from the internet.

Links are dead...

Quote:
Yes, where are MFT with fine IS0 6400 and 5-axis image stabilization. Since 2016. What tripod has to do with street photography? Handheld with 1/15 and IS does. And modern cameras with IS will recognize which axis to stabilize once camera in the pan mode. Do you know what pan mode is in street photogaphy?
I can tell by this you have not used the MFT camera you are talking about or a camera with IS. It does not work this way at all. It mostly works in situations WHERE a tripod or monopod would work. That is what I meant... it does not stabilize situations where you are quickly bringing the camera to your eye to catch a moment like in street photography. It may work in a panning situation, but it is not necessary for panning at all and I bet that will be very hit or miss just like any other panning situation.

Quote:
And CoolPic A is not slow camera for the street. My buddy in Moscow does it with this camera and does it great, not just like you show us here.
OK, your friend has used it... but so have I... I know that its AF is on the slower side. Again, I've used it, you haven't. Can it be used? Yes. Is it ideal? No. Can someone adapt to it? Yes. Is it faster than the GR the OP is already using? NO! That is the point...

Quote:
He even does it with some old MFT and MF Oly 15mm pancake. Boris Kireev. I suggest to learn about him, before lecturing here about Coolpix A AF and street photography.
We just had GRII, CoolPix A talk about street photography with him and other good folks I know. Here is one who used old Ricoh camera for trip to India. In the real night:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/115439...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/115439...in/dateposted/

BTW, OP has 50 1.4 lens, with films BLKRCAT has mentioned and with Kodak Ultramax 400 @800, he'll be just fine
I've never said they cannot be used... of course old cameras can be used. They have been forever. THAT IS NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD. So, I said the X100F will be easier to use for night street photography at this point. It is more versatile. I'm not sure why you needed to come into this thread and get on your high horse. Especially since you are not talking about the two cameras the OP asked about. You have not used either camera, and you have not used some of the cameras you are suggesting either.
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Old 04-26-2018   #27
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The post above by jsrockit is pretty accurate.

When I am unsure, I ask others more knowledgable than me. I learn from their experience and advice.
I progress my photography that way.

Here are some from the Fuji X100...


In-camera or lens stabilization would not have frozen the child's movement.
Only shutter speed determines that.

Here are 2 more...





I have not spent time to perform noise reduction on these raw images. I shoot raw, specially at night!
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Old 04-26-2018   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darya151 View Post
wonderful image, really beautiful! Shot with 3200?
darya
1600!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kupepe View Post
This is a X100F or a film photo ? Great colours and the feel I am looking for during the night shoots.
This is from an X100T
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Old 04-26-2018   #29
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@jsrockit & ko.fe

I think that looking from some of the OP's posts, "blurry photos in P mode", lead me to believe that he isn't a very advanced user. No need busting chops and duking it out over info that i'm not even sure that the OP would understand.

@OP Bottom line is the X100F is a very capable night camera, if you want to save some money and pick up a second hand X100T I would say that it's a good alternative.

If you want to bang out a couple rolls and try night shooting on film before they invest in a fuji then there are some great film stocks listed. (I would also add fuji superia 800 or portra 800 to that list as well)

And if you pick up a fuji and have any further questions you know that there is a wealth of first hand knowledge with very passionate members on RFF.
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Old 04-26-2018   #30
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I own both a GR and a X100F. The GR is blind at night. Unless you jack up the ISO and use snap focus don't bother. The X100F is usable. Nothing crazy but if you have a decent light source (street lamp) lighting the subject then its perfectly fine. It struggles when the elements in the frame are moving. Don't expect a Nikon D5 and you should be fine.
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Old 04-26-2018   #31
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I find the X100F better for low light street than the EM10 MK2 with 20mm 1.8
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Old 04-26-2018   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kupepe View Post
Thank you all for the replies.

...It has a CCD sensor, which is supposed to have certain advantages in low light conditions to CMOS, but that applies after the photo being taken I guess. ...

Actually, in low-light a CCD sensor technology has serious disadvantages compared to CMOS.
  • CMOS analog S/N ratios are superior for a number of technical factors. For instance, input-referred read noise levels are lower because all of the logic, analog signal amplification and analog-to-digital convert circuitry is on a single chip.
  • Compared to CMOS, CCD technology is highly susceptible to blooming artifacts caused by charge overflow between adjacent pixel sites. In night scenes this can be an issue with bright, point-source lights.
  • Practically all recent technological advances in sensor performance are limited to CMOS. This is primarily due to fabrication advantages and their lower operational power consumption
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Old 04-26-2018   #33
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Quote:
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...

Here are some from the Fuji X100...
I think these are perfectly exposed and rendered. Kudos!
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Old 05-02-2018   #34
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Is the tech of X100F close to X100T, as far as how the camera performs at night ?

I can have a X100T to shoot for a couple of days. Will it be close on x100F, if i used the X100T as a judgement call if to buy the x100f?
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Old 05-03-2018   #35
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the sensor between the T and the F is completely different. I believe that the F has much better high iso performance.
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Old 05-03-2018   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kupepe View Post
Is the tech of X100F close to X100T, as far as how the camera performs at night ?
...
No.

The 100F is much better in terms of dynamic range in bright light and S/N in low ambient-light situations.

The X-Trans III sensors use Aptina's dual conversion-gain technology. Below ISO 800 the sensor electronics are optimized for dynamic range. At ISO 800 and above, the sensor circuitry switches to mode that increases sensitivity.

The X100F also offers significant improvements in AF technology as well.

I think the lenses are essentially identical.
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Old 05-13-2018   #37
SJACPHOTO
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As a Street Photographer myself, I am now almost exclusively using the X100F among my Ricoh GR.

At night, the X100F does work well without a flash, but You need some very bright light sources. Just shooting at the dark won't yield a very good result, although the f/2.0 does give some space for night photography, You should look for bright light, like street lamps or storefronts.
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