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Photogs / Photo Exhibits This is the place to discuss a particular Photographer (work, style, life, whatever), as well as to post Gallery and Museum Photo Exhibitions and your own impressions of them. As we march on in this new digital world, it is often too easy to forget about the visual importance of the photographic print, as well as their financial importance to the photographer. It is also interesting to remember that some guy named Gene Smith shot with lenses that many lens test reading "never had a picture published in their life" amateurs would turn up their their noses at, as being "unacceptable."

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Old 09-07-2017   #41
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
If you are street photographer who is known for street photography and not for seminars on street photography, it means, you spend a lot of time on the street. Not on money making seminars.

Winogrand "I'm surviving". Even he has to teach. To have some money...

I think, street photography seminar by Eric brings more than street photography. And this is why it is worth of paying. Many street photographers, but only few good instructors on street photography who like Eric understands what where are lot more involved on human nature at both sides (taker and taken), much more comparing to flowers, veggie photography.
I don't understand how "street photography" can be taught. I mean you pick up a camera go to the street and photograph whatever it is that's interesting. There are no technical aspects to it other than knowing basic camera function. What does he actually teach? Composition?
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Old 09-07-2017   #42
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envy, and no surprise it's rearing it's garbage head here too.
I'm not so sure it is always envy. If his work isn't to people's taste and it's great... then it is maybe people don't get it or are envious of success. However, if the work wasn't great when he began his workshops, that could be a good reason why people disliked him.

That said, there are plenty of great (and well known) photographers that people will dismiss on this site.
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Old 09-07-2017   #43
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OK, since OP is keep on pushing Eric as photographer here, I revisited to see if he become one.
And Eric as good businessman has ready answer for this kind of requests.
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2...-photographer/

Where is obviously something growing in him, in terms of photography. So, I don't really know at all anymore why some dirty talks about him still.

He even has free plug-ins for LR. 0$!
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Old 09-07-2017   #44
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Is this guy famous? I used to own his M9--a nice black paint one. Maybe I should have kept it.
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Old 09-07-2017   #45
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Is this guy famous? I used to own his M9--a nice black paint one. Maybe I should have kept it.
Not a good investment. The fact that he owned it has got to cause premature depreciation!
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Old 09-07-2017   #46
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Not a good investment. The fact that he owned it has got to cause premature depreciation!
You guys are too much!
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Old 09-07-2017   #47
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I don't understand how "street photography" can be thought. I mean you pick up a camera go to the street and photograph whatever it is thats interesting. There are no technical aspects to it other than knowing basic camera function. What does he actually teach? Composition?
It depends on personal determinations on that is interesting. Winogrand was special teacher to change students mind on that is interesting.
And Winogrand was showing on the street how to plow for the street photography. The non-suspicions, non-intrusive street photography is photography of shadows and blurs combined with street elements and architecture. I don't know if Eric is teaching it now, but years ago then I checked what he was doing, it was not about it. It was about what makes good street, candid photography for many of us. It is about people been close. Teaching how to get close to people and actually helping with getting close to people isn't much about photography. But it is worth of paying for it to become better street photographer. IMO.

It is like dancing. Teaching dancing is one part, helping to start dancing naked on the table is another part. Good street photographer is act of dancing naked on the table in the public place.
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Old 09-07-2017   #48
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Angry

As I've found, over recent years, anyone who has a camera or iPhone, is a "photographer". If you carry this a step further, anyone who has uploaded a photo to social media, is a "published photographer". Things have changed..

I was taught, by an experienced credentialed scientist, to ignore any title or letters written/published before or after a name, until they are vetted.

As those who change their job titles, gender, interweb achievements at will, we must agree, or be thought Neanderthal.

Edit: I forgot one.. anyone who has been paid money for a photograph, is a "professional photographer". I think that covers them all. For those in the mid/south west US, anyone who dresses like cowboy, is a cowboy.

I learned this as a youngster in school: "I see by your outfit, that you are a Cowboy. You see by my outfit, that I am one too. We see by our outfits that we are both Cowboys, if you get an outfit, you can be a Cowboy too". written by Dave Guard, I think.
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Old 09-07-2017   #49
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Indeed. Perhaps this post is even my point. The fellow seems to be doing all right. I think his recent work is pretty good, all things considered.

The conversation came up as I was sitting in a cafe listening to some curmudgeonly photographers go on about him in a very negative fashion. To shorten a long and boring conversation, 'fraud' will suffice. Therein lies the disconnect for me. The guy is producing and showing work, running workshops and travelling the world doing this photography thing. What's fraudulent about that?
Well, quite. Then again, pornographers can earn a living from pornographic photography. We all make moral/ intellectual/ aesthetic judgements about others.

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R.
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Old 09-07-2017   #50
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IMO the kind of "street" under his lens are kitsch you'd see everywhere - take a happy short walk (during which your are instructed to behave suspiciously) and you can make hundreds of these monochrome, generalized pictures from the hip. And he makes a living marketing the kitsch. Funny thing is he (being one of "them") often quote Winogrand's bold words but never read photography like Winogrand (or more precisely, Szarkowski) did...the ones that go beyond "street" and into our times...nor do they share the hunger. Too big a commitment for the discriminating weekend photographers who are Kim's primary source of revenue perharps. Thus hardly could they produce a photo that can withstand a reading.

(Maybe it's just me, but I also dislike the name "Streetpan", which reeks of a similar smell. Feed your Analogue™ Leica™ Rangefinder™ with Streetpan™, go into the Streets™ and do Street Photography™. In Black & White™. Heartfully prefabricated, just add water. How convenient.)

Of course he's an honest man doing his business, but it's like selling alcohol-free vodkas...safe, tasteless, and no spirit at all.
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Old 09-07-2017   #51
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The kind of "street" under his lens are kitsch you'd see everywhere - take a happy short walk (during which your are instructed to behave suspiciously) and you can make hundreds of these monochrome, generalized pictures from the hip. And he makes a living marketing the kitsch. Funny thing is he (being one of "them") often quote Winogrand's bold words but never read photography like Winogrand (or more precisely, Szarkowski) did...the ones that go beyond "street" and into our times...nor do they share the hunger. Too big a commitment for the discriminating weekend photographers who are Kim's primary source of revenue perharps. Thus hardly could they produce a photo that worth a reading.
Let me guess, street photography like his is so easy, but you don't do street photography because you are above it.
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Old 09-07-2017   #52
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How many so-called street photographers can truly make a living like this?
What you do is set up a web site and sell a course on how you can make $100000 a year as a street photographer!
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Old 09-07-2017   #53
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The conversation came up as I was sitting in a cafe listening to some curmudgeonly photographers go on about him in a very negative fashion. To shorten a long and boring conversation, 'fraud' will suffice. Therein lies the disconnect for me. The guy is producing and showing work, running workshops and travelling the world doing this photography thing. What's fraudulent about that?
It's the lack of credentials. He's using his earnings to get them, though. For example, a while back he took a much more expensive Magnum workshop with Costa Manos.

I'd say there are three things he can do to get real street cred, but none of which he needs to keep making money:

1) work as a photojournalist.
2) at least get into a group show at a reputable gallery, e.g., International Center of photography (NYC), Annenberg Space for Photography (LA), maybe even Rat Hole (Tokyo).
3) have a photobook published by the likes of Steidl, Scalo, Aperture, Nazraeli, etc.

He's carved out the financial means to do it, so I'm guessing it's just a matter of time before he works his way out of the company of guys like Steve Huff and Thorsten Overgaard. I think he has his heart in the right place, so he's got that going for him.
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Old 09-07-2017   #54
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Let me guess, street photography like his is so easy, but you don't do street photography because you are above it.
I (and I believe I'm not alone in this case) constantly take pictures in streets (and elsewhere), used to reply "street works" when being asked what kind of photography I did, and gradually found myself not trendy enough for the title Street Photographer™. Then I learnt to ditch the Street™ thing altogether and be free.

I don't know I'm above or below anything, as most of these words sound like false concepts.

And yes, it was quite easy, and fun at first when you get a shot that looks like one from the masters.
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Old 09-07-2017   #55
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I'd say there are three things he can do to get real street cred, but none of which he needs to keep making money:

1) work as a photojournalist.
2) at least get into a group show at a reputable gallery, e.g., International Center of photography (NYC), Annenberg Space for Photography (LA), maybe even Rat Hole (Tokyo).
3) have a photobook published by the likes of Steidl, Scalo, Aperture, Nazraeli, etc.
Yeah, and that is all so easy to do... it takes a long time of developing your craft to get those things and then it is still likely not to happen. Not to mentioned there is wide range of photojournalists out there and most don't have any "street cred."
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Old 09-07-2017   #56
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Quite easy, indeed. Anyone who had watched a Winogrand video can do that, not to mention if you've watched a Bruce Gilden one.
Come on, his work is a lot better than most of the amateur street stuff I see around... i.e. people's backs, no composition, etc. At least he's trying. If it was as easy as watching a video and going to do it, we'd see a lot more of his style of photos than the random backs of people with hasty framing throw in. I'm not sticking up for him because his work is derivative. But I do feel it is better than a lot of other amateurs crap.

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I (and I believe I'm not alone in this case) take pictures in streets (and elsewhere), used to reply "street works" when being asked what kind of photography I did, and gradually found myself not trendy enough for the title Street Photographer™.
Yeah, I understand you here... I feel the same way. I honestly stopped caring about being a street photographer. I just go out and photograph trying to get better and find my own style. I may never succeed but it is fun trying.
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Old 09-07-2017   #57
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His blog is one of the few photography specific sites I actually choose to read fairly regularly. Not a fan of his new-found rapping an poetry sensibilities, but his current works are great and his breakdowns/musings of photography related material can be really fascinating.
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Old 09-07-2017   #58
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Yeah, and that is all so easy to do... it takes a long time of developing your craft to get those things and then it is still likely not to happen. Not to mentioned there is wide range of photojournalists out there and most don't have any "street cred."
It's more difficult to get credibility in street photography than, say, fashion photography. You don't need to be Steven Meisel to teach a workshop (not that he'd ever have to!), though you do have to be David Alan Harvey.

Photojournalists are busy chasing stories and and following the news, so it's up to the old fogeys and professional hustlers/amateur photographers to fill the growing demand for them.

Are there any younger photojournalists who teach street photography workshops?
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Old 09-07-2017   #59
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there's nothing novel in his business model relative to seminars, especially the luxe variety. fly fishermen conduct seminars on trout streams, often in exclusive locations, for well-heeled types who buy in to the concept of fast-tracking streamcraft. young players and older wannabes go to sports camps conducted by variously credentialed former and current athletes. real estate, modeling, commodity trading ... list could go on and on.

google "street photography" and kim pops up in top three. that's cred enough for selling seminars, as i doubt his attendees would look to whether his work is published or curated. he's upfront about what he's doing, plenty of chutzpah, not a bad gig and he can still work on his skills and portfolio.

i prefer the approach of olivier duong, for my educational dollar.
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Old 09-07-2017   #60
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Several years ago myself and Eric briefly interacted through twitter, he was a a very genuine and positive guy, and based solely on my work made sure to shout me out several times on his twitter, nothing in it for him, just helping out.

I don't agree with absolutely everything he says, but that's the same with everyone.

He's found a way to make his living from the areas around photography, and I salute him for it, he's not bringing negativity or pseudoscience like some do, so good luck to him.
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Old 09-07-2017   #61
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Best quote from his most controversial articles:

" My wife Cindy taught me to save money and not to go out and buy Leicas"

He's made his money using just as good photography gear at a much smaller outlay. That's just smart money.
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Old 09-07-2017   #62
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If you don't like his work, don't buy it or support his workshops. From all the criticism here, you would think he is the anti christ.
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Old 09-07-2017   #63
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If you don't like his work, don't buy it or support his workshops. From all the criticism here, you would think he is the anti christ.
really? the conversation seems positively passive compared to other discussions about him i've come across.
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Old 09-07-2017   #64
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So much negativity.

Firstly, I don't think he "over promotes" himself, rather he successfully promotes himself. Nothing wrong with that.

Secondly, since when do you have to be a world renowned expert in a field before you can teach it? More often than not, the true experts in the field are the worst teachers, they have no idea how others can struggle with what they do so easily.

Thirdly, he has never tried to deceive anyone as far as I know. He is honest and hard working, and well done to him. I don't know many people that would be as honest as he was in that PP article referenced in this thread. He has found a business model that works in a world when people want everything for free AND he shares how to do it.

Lastly, do people really go to these workshops with the express intent of learning from the instructor or is it more about the experience of sharing a great few days shooting somewhere you wouldn't normally shoot, with the added confidence that working in a supportive group brings. I think it would be great fun to fully immerse yourself for a few days with a group of like minded individuals with a guide who organizes the whole thing. Nothing to think about but taking photos with some new friends.

Anyway, I admire his openness and his hustle. He has worked hard and it has paid off for him.
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Old 09-07-2017   #65
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One more thing about Eric. I know one street photographer in Moscow who participated in run by Eric kind of street photo on-line challenges. It was for free and Eric reviewed his photo for free. Personally, I finding it to be valuable.

Oh, I always liked his site, some clear writings for good start. And his jump on film for street photography was in sync with me.

Also his photography was more on humanitarian side (HCB side) so far. Something which is in harmony with my views.
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Old 09-07-2017   #66
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eric and a slew of other youtube photographers (matt day for example) have a habit of contradicting themselves at every turn. it wouldn't be such a problem if they didn't make such bold be-all-end-all statements.

i've tuned them out completely. they thrive on attention and their work lacks any originality.
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Old 09-07-2017   #67
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I recall reading on his blog that when attempting to learn street photography, there were practically no resources available. He studied up instead, read, practiced and documented his progress for all to read and learn from as well. I still visit his page now and then, it is still the same approach. His photography has grown over the years and he has never claimed to be great photographer or teacher. To me, it seems that he has always had genuine effort to share about his journey and what he has learned. I particularly enjoy his series on "what I have learned from...." (usually a photographer but not always). All his writings and photos are available as open access to all. Free for all to get (one may or may not consider a PayPal donation). I have never attended his workshops nor do I plan to, not my approach to photography.

Nothing has been given to him and has earned every bit of what he has accomplished. My respects to him.
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Old 09-07-2017   #68
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Hey, my Dad was a dentist. OM gear, actually used for work. I don't take dentist bashers seriously. I've enjoyed some Eric Kim stuff. Don't know about his photographic work as such.
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Old 09-07-2017   #69
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I don't know anything about Eric Kim. I've seen his name come up in web searches; that's all. I've (still) never seen his photos.

So, because my friend emraphoto thought him interesting, I decided to do a Kim search. I was surprised at the volume of stuff written about Kim.

This was one of the first I read. It's fairly well written. This writer has a definitive opinion about Kim. Kim, if nothing else, has created a web photo phenom. I'll continue to read for a bit.

A Blogger wrote:
"For the past few years I’ve not spent much time noticing Eric Kim. I found his blog maybe about 4 or 5 years ago and watched a video or two on him and like dancing fruit flies, Initially I found him mildly entertaining yet progressively more annoying. Luckily I’ve spent less and less time listening to people try to instruct how others should photograph; the internet has become a hive for such activities."

https://onedgestreet.com/is-eric-kim-full-of-sht/

Edit: So, I looked at his instagram account. Not terrible photos, if I have the correct Eric Kim. But, few looked like street photos? Maybe I got the wrong Eric Kim?
https://www.instagram.com/erickimphoto/

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Old 09-07-2017   #70
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Good on him for making a living in the photo industry...even if it's not from selling photos. I personally find his delivery on YouTube sort of....annoying, for lack of a better term. But, no envy from me. To each their own and I LOVE my job. Photography is merely a hobby for me at this point.
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Old 09-07-2017   #71
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HveMAHf2UBg
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Old 09-07-2017   #72
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Ha!..........
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Old 09-07-2017   #73
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I don't really follow him, or his haters, but I do have to ask, has he ever taken an interesting photo? I can't recall ever seeing one.

I also don't know what he teaches, or how, but I'm always skeptical when the best compliment one can muster about a person is "well at least they're making money". I have heard many students and old classmates wonder why so many how-to-draw books seem to be written by people with little clue about drawing. The answer is simple: they pitch and sell their books to people with no clues about drawing.
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Old 09-07-2017   #74
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There's a new web site belonging to Johnny Mobasher, https://streetphotography.com/

He managed to get the .com address after running http://www.streetphotography.co.uk/ for some time. I find him more interesting than Eric Kim, not least because his sites are not so relentlessly focused on selling. In fact, they're free.

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Old 09-08-2017   #75
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He's been doing that so-called 'hustle' since he was a rank beginner and has rubbed people the wrong way from day one.

Examples:

He's had a huge ego for years - frequently over-promoting his photos. He's promoted Magnum/gear worship. He's acted as if he has weight and experience that he does not have. He's been doing paid "workshops" since the first or second year he started taking photos. He is all about style and not content. His ideas are lazy. His "style" is a heavily copped one based on whatever photographer he's idolizing at that time (seems to have stuck with Gilden + Moriyama the longest). He fits content to style. He's promoted aggressive, intrusive, and easy street photography to susceptible newbie readers (which damages us as a whole). I've not honestly paid any mind to him over the last few years but, aside from being a blog-tog, I do not think he's had any real work as a photographer. His thought process for image construction and story construction is shallow. He promotes a pseudo-intellectual, and anti-humanistic, form of image analysis (truncated formalism).

None of this, in and of itself, is so horrible for one person to have - and in truth are a lot of the stages growing photographers go through learning on their own. However, he has SEO'd his way into being influential and therefore damaging to the photographic community.

Also, and this is an aside, going by what's on his website - his photos are okay at best. However, when thinking about the amount of images he claims to make, the amount of practice he puts in, his portfolio is weak.
A very concise report and one I can fully subscribe to.
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Old 09-08-2017   #76
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I'm not much interested in street photography but sometimes I visit Eric site and I like his behavior, there are interesting readings and his photos are much better (interesting) then most of the photos I see in the net under the label "street photography" full of as jsrockit says "people's backs, no composition, etc."

After having gone through this thread I think we are all different, we all have different opinions about gear and the same applies about people! So long the discussion is civil this is one of the nice aspect of photography, we have something to discuss about

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Old 09-08-2017   #77
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I find it interesting that threads like this tend to get more activity that true photo/photography threads.
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Old 09-08-2017   #78
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Is this Eric Kim's judgement day? Who are we to judge? Who gives a rats ass what he does?

For me, I put my best foot forward. I try to post my best work here. That's because I love to share and I love to see what others are doing. Many of the contributors here post impressive and inspiring images... look for the best in people, I do.
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Old 09-08-2017   #79
MCTuomey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeLopez View Post
I find it interesting that threads like this tend to get more activity that true photo/photography threads.
good point
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Old 09-08-2017   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeLopez View Post
I find it interesting that threads like this tend to get more activity that true photo/photography threads.
like it or not, the hustle we speak of is a significant part of 'true photography'. as the market changes for photojournalism/documentary work, man of us who produce the work you see in magazines, on the wire, in galleries etc, must find other ways of getting work out there. when i come across someone like Eric, i don't default to categorization. i become instantly curious and look for hints and/or ideas on how to keep going.

so yes, this is an interesting topic for many of us. folks who depend on the camera and photographs to eat, pay the mortgage/rent and so forth. 'true photographers' if you will.
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