banding after first home develop attempt
Old 03-04-2015   #1
Paul N
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banding after first home develop attempt

Please can anyone help me identify what I am doing wrong.

I have developed Tri-X 400 pushed to 1600 in Ilfosol 3 then ilfostop for a min then ilford rapid fixer for 5 min (1+4). The exposure is correct but all the bands line up with the film sprockets.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100656...6/16715918341/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100656...6/16713514221/

Two possibilities I am aware of are
i) I developed in a two reel paterson tank with only 1 reel. second reel was not in situe so possibly the reel was out of the developer for a period.
ii) I accidently rewound the film in camera the wrong way, realised then reversed the wind to correct before opening the back.

The camera has previously produced good results (recently).

I have tried refixing for up to 10 mins with no effect.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Paul
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Old 03-04-2015   #2
FrankS
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Try a new film without the mistakes you mention making with the first rolls.

It looks like developer related surge marks.

Don't be disheartened! Once you get it down, it's easy.
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Old 03-04-2015   #3
AndersG
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Have you checked your fixer with a piece of fresh film?

Given that it is dark also where no exposure should be in a pattern that doesn't look like light leaks I'd suspect the fixer. What did the ends of the film look like?
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Old 03-04-2015   #4
VTHokiEE
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What is your inversion method? That is quite dramatic but the bands do line up with the sprocket holes. This thread seems to mention a similar issue: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru.../t-120145.html

one of the replies, from Larry H-L, states:

Quote:
I've never seen it this bad, but it looks like nozzle effect from the reel sliding back and forth in the tank.

If you are only doing one roll in a big tank, are you putting empty reels in to fill the void?

A small amount of liquid in a big tank might also rush past the sprocket holes too quickly.

Can you describe your set up and agitation?
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Old 03-04-2015   #5
tunalegs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul N View Post
i) I developed in a two reel paterson tank with only 1 reel. second reel was not in situe so possibly the reel was out of the developer for a period.
Seems like the most obvious problem. This would cause excess agitation around the film while processing.
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Old 03-04-2015   #6
skibeerr
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Light leaks,

when I see this vertical regular pattern my first question is, do you load from bulk?

Wim
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Old 03-04-2015   #7
Paul N
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Excellent. I feel confident on the diagnosis.

Thank you
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Old 03-04-2015   #8
brbo
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I always develop 35mm film with just one reel (I only have one) in Patterson universal tank and never had a problem.
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Old 03-05-2015   #9
Paul N
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Glad to say I have solved the problem and have accomplished my first successful home development. Pleased with myself. Also impressed with the humble Epson V550. Here is part 1:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

developed with second reel in situ. Most photos are OOC or close to OOC (Zeiss Ikon with Biogon F2)

brbo, I assume your tank is not designed for 2 reels?
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Old 03-05-2015   #10
AndersG
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I would assume it may well be a 2 reel tank - I also use a 2x135/1x120 reel Patterson tank with just one reel. So far, (I bought the tank in 2005 but have not used it extensively, just ~50 rolls) the reel fits tight enough on the central cylinder that it will not move during development.
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Old 03-05-2015   #11
bence8810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersG View Post
I would assume it may well be a 2 reel tank - I also use a 2x135/1x120 reel Patterson tank with just one reel. So far, (I bought the tank in 2005 but have not used it extensively, just ~50 rolls) the reel fits tight enough on the central cylinder that it will not move during development.
Do you invert while developing or only rotating the center?
If you invert - your reel ought to move from it's place with the flow of the liquid. Or you just perhaps fill the tank full as if you were developing two rolls?

Ben
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Old 03-05-2015   #12
sevo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul N View Post
Glad to say I have solved the problem
So what was the problem? The marks on the original film look extremely strange, as developer by itself cannot cause streaks in unexposed areas.
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Old 03-06-2015   #13
AndersG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bence8810 View Post
Do you invert while developing or only rotating the center?
If you invert - your reel ought to move from it's place with the flow of the liquid. Or you just perhaps fill the tank full as if you were developing two rolls?
I invert (2 times in 10 seconds), but the reel fits tightly onto the central cylinder (both are plastic) so it does not move. The central cylinder does have some play but it is at most 2-3mm).

I guess that you have to have a really violent flow to get black marks in areas that have not been exposed to light?
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Old 03-06-2015   #14
bence8810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersG View Post
I invert (2 times in 10 seconds), but the reel fits tightly onto the central cylinder (both are plastic) so it does not move. The central cylinder does have some play but it is at most 2-3mm). I guess that you have to have a really violent flow to get black marks in areas that have not been exposed to light?
In my tanks the reel(s) move up and down as I invert. I'd imagine that for the OP, the reel moved up when inverting and didn't move back down - only the chemicals. This left the reel up above the chemicals dry with only some left between the sprocket holes which slowly made its way down the film causing the strips. Just my guess.

In my tank if I don't put in the second reel - the lone one will move up and down. Even when developing a single 120 roll, there's some space left above it. 1x120 is shorter than 2x135.
There's a ring I need to lock above the reel so it would hold it in place but sometimes I find it moved anyways.

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Old 03-06-2015   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bence8810 View Post
This left the reel up above the chemicals dry with only some left between the sprocket holes which slowly made its way down the film causing the strips.
So what exposed the areas around the sprocket holes, then? The margin should be unexposed, and any amount of agitation (or even a few hours of excess development - which would have boosted the contrast in the image area to lith film proportions) should leave it blank...
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Old 03-06-2015   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
So what exposed the areas around the sprocket holes, then? The margin should be unexposed, and any amount of agitation (or even a few hours of excess development - which would have boosted the contrast in the image area to lith film proportions) should leave it blank...
I am looking at this from the phone so might not see it well. I thought the only developed section was below the holes and thought that's the only part where the developer worked.

Or maybe the reel got stuck at the fixing stage?

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Old 03-06-2015   #17
sevo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bence8810 View Post
I am looking at this from the phone so might not see it well. I thought the only developed section was below the holes
Nope, there are vanes up and down from the holes all across the blank margin, and into the black gaps between the frames. If you ask me, it looks more like light leaking in from the film edges of a tight wound spool (with some odd contribution of the perforation - perhaps by it creating breaks in the anti-lightpiping of the base) than anything else. If there is chemistry involved, it must be something that created a fogging stage in a black and white negative process - fixer pollution can occasionally cause things like that.
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Old 03-07-2015   #18
skibeerr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
I always develop 35mm film with just one reel (I only have one) in Patterson universal tank and never had a problem.
Neither do I, my reels have a snug fit on the axis. Patterson 2 reel tank.
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