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Old 08-23-2014   #81
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Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post

What is irritating is the Red Dot Blackmail, which is that Leica knows everyone wants dot-less cameras - yet seems to make that the second iteration of every model.

Dante
I rather like the red dots- they make a perfect base for black paint.
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Old 08-23-2014   #82
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... the beauty of every new Leica; one can be assured of capturing a divisive moment
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Old 08-23-2014   #83
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How many kidneys the marketing department in Wetzlar think human beings have?
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Old 08-23-2014   #84
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Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I'm not bitter Godfrey ... I'm expressing my views as is my right.

If you disagree with my opinions fine, I'm a big boy I can handle that, but lay off the accusations of being bitter ... thanks!
The observation that calling something a "bloody rip off!" seems an expression of bitterness is not an accusation.

G
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Old 08-23-2014   #85
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Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
... the beauty of every new Leica; one can be assured of capturing a divisive moment
Best line I've seen pass by here in a while!

Thx,
G
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Old 08-23-2014   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
The observation that calling something a "bloody rip off!" seems an expression of bitterness is not an accusation.

G

I`m afraid the trouble is in the translation .
It stems from the same linguistic source where you call your dearest friend a "total b*stard" but someone that you really despise a " bit of a b*stard".

Confusing but I know what he meant ...
It isn`t restricted to Australia but also common in the London east end which is probably where it originates.
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Old 08-23-2014   #87
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I`m afraid the trouble is in the translation .
It stems from the same linguistic source where you call your dearest friend a "total b*stard" but someone that you really despise a " bit of a b*stard".

Confusing but I know what he meant ...
It isn`t restricted to Australia but also common in the London east end which is probably where it originates.
If you're going to participate on an international forum, it's a good idea to write with an international audience in mind.

Even so, I don't think that it's true that people who are happy with their purchases perpetually whine and whinge about the price. It seems more an affectation—I know plenty of wealthy people who can easily afford an $8000 camera and have no reason to moan about how much it costs, but they do the same thing.

It's a camera. An expensive camera. Buy it if you want it and can afford it. Then use it. Going on and on about the price is boring.

G
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Old 08-23-2014   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
... the beauty of every new Leica; one can be assured of capturing a divisive moment


It's like a broken record, over and over and over again......

If you like it, buy it. For whatever reason. There's no point in justifying it to anybody. If you don't like it, don't buy it. For whatever reason. There's no point in justifying it to anybody. I think it's a pretty simple proposition.
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Old 08-23-2014   #89
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From the ad copy on Leica's site;

"The Leica MP enables authentic images to be captured from the heart of life itself."

Well there you go folks. The rest of us, with our lowly Olympus, Yashica, Canon, etc fixed lens RF cameras must be "capturing" fake images. It's a good thing I found out now.
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Old 08-23-2014   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
It's a camera. An expensive camera. Buy it if you want it and can afford it. Then use it. Going on and on about the price is boring.
G
Oh ..couldn`t agree more.
I just don`t understand the angst generated about Leica.
Buy it if you can afford it , and its what you ,want otherwise don`t.

I find the negativity very dispiriting .

High end audio gear is much more expensive yet doesn`t seem to generate half as much chest beating.

A broken record indeed.
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Old 08-23-2014   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
From the ad copy on Leica's site;

"The Leica MP enables authentic images to be captured from the heart of life itself."

Well there you go folks. The rest of us, with our lowly Olympus, Yashica, Canon, etc fixed lens RF cameras must be "capturing" fake images. It's a good thing I found out now.

Well obviously that`s a load of marketing rubbish ...examples of which can be encountered every day, so why the sensitivity over this particular product.

You wouldn`t take it seriously if it were a washing machine so why should you suddenly take it seriously in this context.

PS ...I shoot Yashica and Canon ...so what.
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Old 08-23-2014   #92
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Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
Well obviously that`s a load of marketing rubbish ...examples of which can be encountered every day, so why the sensitivity over this particular product.

You wouldn`t take it seriously if it were a washing machine so why should you suddenly take it seriously in this context.
I agree. Ads from all camera manufacturers can be equally as bad. Do a Google image search of "camera ads."
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Old 08-23-2014   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post

High end audio gear is much more expensive yet doesn`t seem to generate half as much chest beating.
Actually it can. And the same with performance cars. Just wander into any high end car enthusiast or audiophile forum.

Anyway, I think all of this has much less of a bearing on the products themselves and more on the nature of human beings in general. When it comes to consumerism, self-identification, and parting with one's money, humans can sometimes become strange birds....
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Old 08-23-2014   #94
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Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Best line I've seen pass by here in a while!

Thx,
G
... it was intended as more of an accusation than a line
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Old 08-23-2014   #95
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Originally Posted by VertovSvilova View Post
Anyway, I think all of this has much less of a bearing on the products themselves and more on the nature of human beings in general. When it comes to consumerism, self-identification, and parting with one's money, humans can sometimes become strange birds....
I suspect that you may be correct ... how very sad.
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Old 08-23-2014   #96
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... the beauty of every new Leica; one can be assured of capturing a divisive moment

Perfect . . . . wish that I wrote that
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Old 08-23-2014   #97
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I find the negativity very dispiriting.
I didn't take Keith's comment as "negativity" given that I understood his turn of phrase in context and know that he's very keen on his new camera.

Returning to the more general topic of the new M-P type 240, I took it as a more-or-less expected mid-life kicker to the camera model (think M8.2, M9P etc.). It doesn't gore any of my oxen - even if it suppresses the resale value of my M type 240, I don't really care as I have no intention of selling it! Had the timing been wrong (from my point of view) I guess I might have cared, as I planned on turning mine around quickly with (I hoped) minimal loss if I didn't get on with it. But I get on with it very nicely indeed and will probably own and use it for a very good number of years. (I still have and use my original Canon 5D as my primary DSLR. The photos I take with it are just as good as they always were[n't].)

Other features of the M-P? I imagine it would be nice to have the additional buffer - but in my use of my M I've not been limited by it's smaller buffer. I guess the saphire glass is better than the gorilla glass on mine, and maybe that will be a longer term problem, but so far the glass on my screen is fine. (Still, I'd prefer to have the saphire than not, though perhaps not at the price-point.) I prefer the "lidless eye of Sauron" look of the red dot to the "Cyclops" look of that rather prominent screw - mostly because I imagine it's easier to conceal with electricians tape (that screw looks like it would still leave a big bump under the tape). I suppose the lack of a big "M" on the front saves me another piece of tape, lowering total cost of ownership I generally like the frameline preview lever. I use it a fair bit on my M3 as an aid to framing with my 75 (between the 50 & 90 framelines) if I haven't used it for a while and until I get my eye back in. I also used it on my Hexar RFs, especially in my early days with the camera (however, it was more a guide to GAS than to framing ). Nonetheless, I've not really missed it on my M.

To my mind, the latest firmware (particularly the change to the operation of auto-ISO) was a far bigger deal...

...Mike
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Old 08-23-2014   #98
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To me the price of a Leica M is a little like discovering there's a silver service Taxi at your door ... you'll pay the extra price to get where you're going but the standard fare would heve been fine!
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Old 08-23-2014   #99
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Does anybody else think this is a bad choice of naming nomenclature?

Leica MP

Leica M-P

Duh, can anybody see what could possibly be confusing here?
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Old 08-23-2014   #100
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Does anybody else think this is a bad choice of naming nomenclature?

Leica MP

Leica M-P

Duh, can anybody see what could possibly be confusing here?
M "dash" P?
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Old 08-23-2014   #101
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Nothing like a new Leica release to fire everyone up. I understand Keith's terminology probably because I am an Eastern neighbour. Certainly not a stretch for me to say I don't regret my purchase of the MM but wish it cost less. In other words it's a bloody rip off.
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Old 08-23-2014   #102
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In spite of the fact I decided to drink the Leica kool aid and pony up for an M240 I don't really like what they're doing here. Remove the dot, (which I don't actually mind) increase the buffer and write speed and make a couple of other minor changes and charge a fair chunk more to own something that in reality has zero improvements for day to day shooting. You're paying the extra for perceived exclusivity with this new camera ... nothing more IMO.

I do like my 240 and have no regrets about the decision to buy it but the price, nearly eight grand in Oz, was a bloody rip off!
Hey! if you can spare a few bucks, I have a nice Eiffel tower for sale
Everybody loves a sucker
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Old 08-23-2014   #103
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Hey! if you can spare a few bucks, I have a nice Eiffel tower for sale
Everybody loves a sucker

LOL .... no sucker hopefully!

The truth is the camera is a gem ... expensive sure but you only live once.
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Old 08-23-2014   #104
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Well obviously that`s a load of marketing rubbish ..
Precisely.
So, if you know that. And I know that. And everybody on this forum know that. Then. Who is it written for? Who is it aimed at? Why would a company like Leica write it? Can their marketing people really be that dumb?
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Old 08-23-2014   #105
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Well,obviously it's aimed at the plural you. You chose to post a reaction to it that smacked of gear inferiority complex. Sounds to me like marketing job well done.
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Old 08-23-2014   #106
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Precisely.
So, if you know that. And I know that. And everybody on this forum know that. Then. Who is it written for? Who is it aimed at? Why would a company like Leica write it? Can their marketing people really be that dumb?
As dumb as most marketing people I suppose. After all, they outsell their targets each and every time.
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Old 08-23-2014   #107
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Well,obviously it's aimed at the plural you. You chose to post a reaction to it that smacked of gear inferiority complex. Sounds to me like marketing job well done.
Come on Kwesi, as you say, reaction, not action. I thought it was just silly and said so. Certainly not the first or last person to do so. Leica stands on their own merit and reputation. They simply do not need to print this type of claptrap. I cannot see where it would sell even one more camera for them.

Full disclosure;
I own a Leica. Always wanted one and treated myself upon retirement to an M4-2, I like it, nice viewfinder. The only thing that let me consider a Leica was CV lenses. Bought used I could afford a small kit.

No gear inferiority complex. I do not long for an MP or M240 or digital of any stripe. Nothing against digital or those who do prefer them, just not my personal preference.

Finally, I'm a dabbler, an inveterate tinkerer with photography and photographic equipment, much of it modified, cobbled together and/or Rube Goldberg contraptions. This is my fun hobby and I am no artist or much of a photographer nor do I lay claim to be.
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Old 08-23-2014   #108
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I didn't take Keith's comment as "negativity" given that I understood his turn of phrase in context and know that he's very keen on his new camera.
...Mike

Just to be clear neither did I ...
I too understood his turn of phrase as I tried to explain.

It wasn`t that which I was referring to .
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Old 08-23-2014   #109
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Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Precisely.
So, if you know that. And I know that. And everybody on this forum know that. Then. Who is it written for? Who is it aimed at? Why would a company like Leica write it? Can their marketing people really be that dumb?

They`re just another company and the marketing people they employ were probably marketing soap powder last year ...I don`t know.

I imagine its aimed at the sort of people who are susceptible to that sort of pitch.

It doesn`t persuade me and clearly doesn`t persuade you so why worry.

Otherwise we`d both have a full time job trawling the internet and commenting adversely on every ridiculous marketing strategy regarding products in which we have no interest.
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Old 08-24-2014   #110
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Just to be clear neither did I ...
Accepted and understood. I understood earlier and hope I've given no indication otherwise. If I have, it was unintentional.

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Old 08-24-2014   #111
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No worries Mike
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If You Want It, then Get It
Old 08-24-2014   #112
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If You Want It, then Get It

If you want the newest M, get it. If you want a digital rangefinder, then Leica is pretty much your only choice. There are now plenty of used M8, 8.2, 9 etc to be had at reasonable prices.

If you want state of the art, it will not be Leica. But anything state of the art will be obsolete before you get it home but will probably be cheaper than a Leica.

Friend shoots for NatGeo and bought a new M9 within a week of its release. M9 did not work for him so he sold it within two months . . . no sweat.

My god it is only a camera not a tablet handed to Moses!
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Old 08-24-2014   #113
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... if God gave Moses a tablet it would be an ipad I feel sure
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Old 08-24-2014   #114
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... if God gave Moses a tablet it would be an ipad I feel sure
but in the film version it would be depicted as a Microsoft Surface with BING.
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Old 08-24-2014   #115
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Come on Kwesi, as you say, reaction, not action. I thought it was just silly and said so. Certainly not the first or last person to do so. Leica stands on their own merit and reputation. They simply do not need to print this type of claptrap. I cannot see where it would sell even one more camera for them.

Full disclosure;
I own a Leica. Always wanted one and treated myself upon retirement to an M4-2, I like it, nice viewfinder. The only thing that let me consider a Leica was CV lenses. Bought used I could afford a small kit.

No gear inferiority complex. I do not long for an MP or M240 or digital of any stripe. Nothing against digital or those who do prefer them, just not my personal preference.

Finally, I'm a dabbler, an inveterate tinkerer with photography and photographic equipment, much of it modified, cobbled together and/or Rube Goldberg contraptions. This is my fun hobby and I am no artist or much of a photographer nor do I lay claim to be.
My apologies Zuiko 85,
After a 10 hour drive from Toronto back to Boston, I was feeling a bit punchy and my off the cuff remark was uncalled for.
You are right. For a marketing job to be well done there should be action, not just reaction.
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Old 08-24-2014   #116
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My apologies Zuiko 85,
After a 10 hour drive from Toronto back to Boston, I was feeling a bit punchy and my off the cuff remark was uncalled for.
You are right. For a marketing job to be well done there should be action, not just reaction.

I know the feeling .... when you're feeling a littly feisty the internet and forums can be a trap. Done it myself often and regreted it!

Nice apology .....
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Old 08-24-2014   #117
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... if God gave Moses a tablet it would be an ipad I feel sure
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/up...ur-tablets.jpg
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Old 08-24-2014   #118
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I`ve never quite understood why folk have an issue with any of this.

Last time I looked we were still on a rangefinder forum so its not surprising that we like rangefinders and by extension probably like Leica rangefinders as they are the only manufacturer still making them .
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Old 08-24-2014   #119
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... funny, but I would expect Steve, and Bill (should that time ever come) to get a much warmer reception
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Old 08-25-2014   #120
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If you're going to participate on an international forum, it's a good idea to write with an international audience in mind.
Sorry to chime in here a little late, but Godfrey, you really to think about this statement some.

Who is to say that the statement was hard to understand? I think I got it the first time around.

And what is international anyway? For me, it's kind of lowest common denominator, in which a lot gets lost.

Let the people talk how they want!
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