Even Rodinal can die.
Old 03-25-2012   #1
Lund
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Even Rodinal can die.

Just a quick rant since I have no one else here right now to share my misery with.

Mixed up a quick batch of 1+100 rodinal for two rolls of acros. I did wonder a bit about the dark colour but since it always worked before I just went ahead. Bad idea. Totally blank negs. Not even edge markings.
I'm just sad. Wasn't anything special on them but still. I had some real hope for some of the frames. I will try for better safe than sorry next time.

(opened my new bottle and developing some rollei 80s. Desided I would not let a setback stop my even the slightest.)
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Old 03-25-2012   #2
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Sorry to hear that! I have noticed the same thing though, this exactly same thing happened to me about a month ago.

Rodinal can die!
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Old 03-25-2012   #3
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How old was it, and which variety?
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Old 03-25-2012   #4
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I learnt the hard way; developed 3 films in Ilfosol (I think) and the developer was dead. Now I am very meticulous, the little leader that is cut off is put in a small pot with some developer and water unless that goes black I do not proceed. I have become quite a fan of the variants of Rodinal with slow films.
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Old 03-25-2012   #5
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Very Sorry to Hear and do know how You are Bummed

I recently stopped using Rodinal ...blotchy negs...rodinal seemed it had clumps & particles in the chemical mix
though i think it was the 'new' version of Rodinal

I am Quite Pleased with HC 110
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Old 03-25-2012   #6
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I've opened my rodinal1.5 year ago and it still works fine. It has changed colour though but i cannot see any difference in the negatives.
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Old 03-25-2012   #7
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Are you sure you didn't put the fix in first?

I am currently using up a 1 litre bottle that is now one quarter full and has been standing half empty for seven years, it still works perfectly. I found it in the garage in a box where it was packed during a house move. Black as hell. Even if it was on its last legs (whenever that is for Rodinal) you should have got something registering on the negatives.

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Old 03-25-2012   #8
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This happened to me as well - one week ago with Acros. Mine was at least 10 years old if not older - was dark red, couldn't hardly see through the syringe to read the numbers. Yeah, it lasts a long time, but not forever.
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Old 03-25-2012   #9
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Yeah... Rodinal is not what it used to be. I don't know what exactly has happened but the truth is the new R09 stuff is NOT the Agfa Rodinal.
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Old 03-25-2012   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mablo View Post
Yeah... Rodinal is not what it used to be. I don't know what exactly has happened but the truth is the new R09 stuff is NOT the Agfa Rodinal.
Is it R09 Spezial? In which case it isn't Rodinal, but Studinol.
I have a bottle of each on my shelf. One is labelled Agfa Rodinal (bought recently) and the other Agfa R09 Spezial. They are completely different.
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Old 03-25-2012   #11
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It was the Fomadon R09. Great stuff when it works but obviously not to be trusted. Just had a few ml in the bottom of the bottle.

On a bright note. My next try right after with a fresh bottle worked out great.
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Old 03-30-2012   #12
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Quote:
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It was the Fomadon R09. Great stuff when it works but obviously not to be trusted. Just had a few ml in the bottom of the bottle.

On a bright note. My next try right after with a fresh bottle worked out great.
AFAIK Fomadon R09 is the pre WWII Rodinal formular. That is different from the last formular Agfa in Leverkusen used.

Foma seems to have some troubles with quality control. Friends of mine experienced severe problems with the T200 film, R100, and the backpaper of the roll film (with Fomapan 100).

Cheers, Jan
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Old 03-30-2012   #13
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If anyone who hangs around in Chicago's loop, near the Art Institute, wants a fresh bottle, free, missing two rolls' worth, PM me and I'll bring it downtown with me. Tried it; hated the look.
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Old 03-30-2012   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
Very Sorry to Hear and do know how You are Bummed

I recently stopped using Rodinal ...blotchy negs...rodinal seemed to have clumps & particles in the chemical mix
though i think it was the 'new' version of Rodinal

I am Quite Pleased with HC 110
I did the same. After Agfa dropped death who knows where Rodinal is made. No such a problem with HC110, still made in the same plant in Rochester by Champion (proudly Canadian).
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Old 03-30-2012   #15
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I have a bottle for test purposes dated 1998. The activity started to fail in 2011.

Stock was decanted from the furnished plastic bottle into a glass one saved from Agfa Viradon toner which is very air tight bottle. The level in the bottle never went below half.

The best bottle was the glass one from 1960 with the rubber stopper top. I used to put a hypo needle thru it and draw up 5 CC much like the doc draws up medicine from his stock. The product was off market for a while because of that type of packaging. I don`t understand why !
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Old 03-30-2012   #16
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Quote:
Fomadon R09 is the pre WWII Rodinal formular. That is different from the last formular Agfa in Leverkusen used.

Foma seems to have some troubles with quality control. Friends of mine experienced severe problems with the T200 film
Yes, it's different then Agfa Rodinal and this version CAN fail after a few years.

In the mean time the problems with the T200 120 roll film is solved. It's on Clear Polyester layer now (not Blue), less curl and they have a different, softer smooth type backing paper now.

Let's hope it will stay in this way.
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Old 03-30-2012   #17
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My strategic reserve of Agfa Rodinal dates back to the pre-global warming era. Looks like cola syrup but is still going strong.
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Old 03-30-2012   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotohuis View Post
Yes, it's different then Agfa Rodinal and this version CAN fail after a few years.

In the mean time the problems with the T200 120 roll film is solved. It's on Clear Polyester layer now (not Blue), less curl and they have a different, softer smooth type backing paper now.

Let's hope it will stay in this way.

Good to hear, I know they had problems with their MF films, Misha (Foma USA, until Foma got a little crazy) got stuck with a lot of it. Showed as pinholes. He visited the factory and yes, he saw some problems.

They have potential, and the niche is open enough so they should do great. I bought their chemistry and the 200 speed film in Prague, the originally sealed R09 kept rather well, but everyone should know, once a bottle is opened , you really need to put Saran wrap under the cap-- the actual brand, the only thing other than ground glass stoppers individually fitted to lab bottles, that seem to really seal.

I used to sell bottle caps, the poly seals were the best I had, but still would breathe enough to let in enough O2 to cause problems.

It has been my understanding that R09 is the old formula, almost everything the Eastern bloc could nationalize was published. Note the dilution is different.

I corresponded years ago trying to promote and get Foma to sell in the US, they did not have the best business sense. They wanted to sell wholesale at a higher than their local retail price.

Jan Bruning in Germany is the guru of data of all things in film and chemistry, he is on RFF somewhere, I posted some of his collection of data, it is impressive.

Sorry for the long post, this thread reminds me of the test with the leader, I had almost forgotten this one, but I generally did the same.


Maybe this is the summer I start to use up some of my stores of film and soups?

Regards, John
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Old 03-30-2012   #19
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At the moment I use a bottle ORWO R09 from 1986 without complains.
Inky black but works as it should.
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Old 03-30-2012   #20
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My strategic reserve of Agfa Rodinal dates back to the pre-global warming era. Looks like cola syrup but is still going strong.
The Ice Age? ;-)

Regards, John
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Old 03-30-2012   #21
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Bloxygen is your friend. Since using it (I'm on my second can) I've saved lots of money on developers going bad. A can of compressed Argon gas, a quick shot of this stuff saves even opened bottles of R09 Spezial from going bad.
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Old 03-30-2012   #22
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The Ice Age? ;-)

Regards, John
Or the cold war...
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Old 04-02-2012   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
Bloxygen is your friend. Since using it (I'm on my second can) I've saved lots of money on developers going bad. A can of compressed Argon gas, a quick shot of this stuff saves even opened bottles of R09 Spezial from going bad.
The air in the bottle is less than 20% O2, nothing will help if the cap breathes, well, I suppose it will help a bit if it is much denser than air and lays on the surface?

Regards, John


ps-
Looks like a reasonably priced product, however I have found paint cans to seal better than bottle caps-- still use Saran wrap with it.
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Old 04-02-2012   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
...I recently stopped using Rodinal ...blotchy negs...rodinal seemed To have clumps & particles in the chemical mix
though i think it was the 'new' version of Rodinal

I am Quite Pleased with HC 110

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it Helen. I've just decided to move away from Rodinal and try a few other developers. HC110 is top of my list.


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Old 06-16-2013   #25
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So it happened to me as well. The bottle of AGFA Rodinal was about 5 years old. My TMax 100 souped for 13min came out completely transparent, not even the edge markings. I'm wondering what is the current equivalent to original Rodinal (and yet easily obtainable in Europe)?
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Old 06-16-2013   #26
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My bottle is over 3 years old & still going strong. I can shake the bottle & hear something rattling inside. The color is a burnt reddish. I don't know if it helps but all my developers are kept away from sunlight as well as artificial light of any kind.
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Old 06-16-2013   #27
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I have looked into my archives and found that the previous roll I developed in the same Rodinal, Fomapan 200 in 120, came out just fine in February this year! I'm wondering what might have gone wrong.
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Old 01-05-2014   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
I have a bottle for test purposes dated 1998. The activity started to fail in 2011.

Stock was decanted from the furnished plastic bottle into a glass one saved from Agfa Viradon toner which is very air tight bottle. The level in the bottle never went below half.

The best bottle was the glass one from 1960 with the rubber stopper top. I used to put a hypo needle thru it and draw up 5 CC much like the doc draws up medicine from his stock. The product was off market for a while because of that type of packaging. I don`t understand why !
I know this is an old thread and this may be obsolete knowledge. The Agfa rodinal was supposed to contain crystal/solids. Decanting it will cause it to degrade both because of the oxidation you cause by the process and the loss of the crystals.
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Old 01-05-2014   #29
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The version made by A&O is what I'm using, and it is 4 years old, half used, with no issues. Its what I developed my HP5 Christmas day photos in.

I'm convinced that instances of totally blank negs with no edge marks are caused by pouring in the fixer first. Even exhausted developers usually give you some faint image.
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Old 01-05-2014   #30
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This seems to be a more common problem than I'd thought. I wrote about it here when it happened to me a while back. I managed to get some decent images from these under-developed negs in Silver Efex Pro but I haven't had the courage to try for darkroom prints yet.

No such problem with Diafine. I used five-year old stuff that was still fine!
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Old 01-05-2014   #31
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I honestly did not know that my R09 is different from the original Rodinal. All this while I have been under the impression that I was using Rodinal. My current bottle, open for about 5-7 months, have crystallized, producing some sugar like substance. Feels like sugar that has not melted in a cup of Expresso.

Still works fine though.
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Old 01-05-2014   #32
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Here is some info. I found:

http://www.adox.de/english/ADOLUX/AD...AL/ADONAL.html

Hope this helps.

Have used the Foma version and worked fine. Took me about 2 years to use the 250 ml bottle up. But I do have D-76 that I made in July 2012 and it still works well. For powder stuff I mix into either 1 or 2 liter empty soda containers. Plastic doesn't seem to mind and the caps seal real well again and again.
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Old 01-05-2014   #33
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I too have switched to HC 110 (H) ... 1:60 actually... easy 600ml mix with a medicine cap measure in 5ml to 20ml (10ml to 590ml for 1 roll 35mm)

I have Rodinal from Freestyle... have a fresh bottle never opened, just over 1 year old, my almost empty other bottle may be bad now.

But, HC 110 (H) gives nice results with a natural grain look
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Old 01-05-2014   #34
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The oldest Rodinal I've used is way over 10 years old, it showed little difference from the new stuff when read with a densitometer.
It is black like coke:



Couldn't see any difference between either bottle pictured above (from 2006/7), I too wonder if people have no edge markings they might have some sort of contamination.
Test developer by snipping of a small piece of film and dipping it in working strength solution for 15mins if it goes black the developer is OK.

Just for a laugh if you want to see how long it can last: (story in German)
http://kwerfeldein.de/2012/11/15/so-...eder-zusammen/

So not forever, but less than 10 year old bottles should give you something...
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Old 01-27-2014   #35
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Yup! Disaster..
I developed a roll Arista/Tri-X this morning.
Chemicals filtered, temp. adjusted.
Developed a few minutes longer as wanted denser negs.
Transparent, no numbers.
I guess because it really isn't Agfa but Blazinol,
there is a difference.
I have some HC-110. Shall try that..
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Old 01-28-2014   #36
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When did it last work? Did you try mixing some more and stick a film leader in it just to see if it'd go dark?

Before I started to use my Calbe R09/Rodinal from 2006 again I sacrificed half a roll of expired Tri-X just to make sure I'd get something (testing both the developer and fix - both that old). I would prefer not to feel the need to do that for every roll, henceforth.. :-/.

The German article on testing 1920s Rodinal was a nice read, btw.
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Old 01-28-2014   #37
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http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117473

The usual: the ones having problems are the error.*
The developer used a few weeks ago. It was fine.
Am i experienced with developing?
Well doing my own films since 1960.
Used Rodinal since 1967.
Pro usage, doing many, many of rolls a month!
The more i think about it..
film with pinholes and other problems.Film ain't what it was.
Maybe using Digital has shown us a quicker and far higher quality.
i like the look of film.
i will not up the ante to get less for more.
I get to think it's time to quit.

* same as when i used a Digital M and had a huge failure,
in focus accuracy, with esp. 90mm lens. i was in error!
used Leica since 1954..
Then we hear about "focus drift", individual lens calibration.

The Blazinol less than 2 years old.

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Old 01-28-2014   #38
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Quote:
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Before I started to use my Calbe R09/Rodinal from 2006 again I sacrificed (...)
You R09OneShot/FomadonR09/Blazinol/Adonal/CalbeR09 guys being after the man who saw the man who saw the bear who knew the original Rodinal formula just kill me !

On the serious side : at the price of those chemicals, and for developing my precious, I wouldn't hesitate to get and use some new and fresh developer - come on !

Being in 2014 and wanting to use some developer having been opened-up in 2006...

I sometimes start some wet printing sessions with some so-so Dektol looking rather like some old orange pekoe tea than like some fresh developer, but, worse case, I will waste a sheet of paper if the developer is indeed DOA, and not a roll of negative which, by definition, will be lost forever if developed in some dead stuff...
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Old 01-28-2014   #39
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As long as it still works it seems like a waste not to use it and at the rate I use it it'd last a very long time - if it doesn't go inactive first. Mixing some extra working solution for testing the film leader will be added to my work flow, though.
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Old 01-28-2014   #40
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I'm keeping a 2006 bottle and every so often I do a test, process half in new and half in the old. I read the patches on the densitometer.

No difference as yet. Although for anything of worth I use newer bottles, and at my current films per year I use a bottle in that yearly timeframe.
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