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back alley's In The Bag Joe's quest for the ultimate Camera Bag! So many bags .. so little time ...

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Old 08-14-2013   #161
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GeorgeD = Godfrey DiGiorgi?

Gosh. That would be really embarrassing if a mod had chosen to hide behind another persona to defend his actions and inflame arguments so he could ban people.
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Old 08-14-2013   #162
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I am not understanding this sniping and hostility towards Purelight?

I was / am a member there and have received no end of help (especially form Stewart /Sparrow - whom I love to bait and fence with a little myself)

Admittedly I have not been to Purelight in a while, but I am very spasmodic in attendance here. I am suffering from memory problems which are slowly, slowly clearing. But, I do remember help given and gratefilly received.

IMO, what we have in this thread is nigh on anarchy. Stephen, reach in and kill it and tell mods and lessers to get out and produce the goods.
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Old 08-14-2013   #163
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GeorgeD = Godfrey DiGiorgi?

Gosh. That would be really embarrassing if a mod had chosen to hide behind another persona to defend his actions and inflame arguments so he could ban people.
Don't feed the trolls.
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Old 08-14-2013   #164
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"Can't we just all get along?" Rodney King. Or, how about, "blessed are the peacemakers."

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Old 08-14-2013   #165
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I am finding this thread to be more and more bizzare. Half the time I dont understand where people are coming from. The other half I don't understand what people are saying. I don't think I am autistic and hence unable to understand other people. Is it just me? Why not just close this thread down? Cant we get back to talking about cameras and stuff.


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Old 08-14-2013   #166
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This is what I find most the most frustrating attitude. Why must the thread be shut down? Are we children in danger of being corrupted? Why would you carry on reading a thread if it upsets you, it's not as if there aren't a hundred threads about cameras lenses and bags if that's what your after.
 

Old 08-14-2013   #167
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I'm very glad that Joe opened this thread, because past episodes of forum desaparecidos have left me with a bad feeling. Being even slightly more open about such things goes a long way with me. However, the way this thread is trending ... well ... it reminds me of why decent moderation is of great value to any internet forum.

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Old 08-14-2013   #168
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This guy is obviously an experienced troll. I can smell him from here.
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Old 08-14-2013   #169
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Which guy?? How do I know who you're referring to?

to avoid being guilty of the same thing:
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Originally Posted by gilpen123 View Post
This guy is obviously an experienced troll. I can smell him from here.
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Old 08-14-2013   #170
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This is what I find most the most frustrating attitude. Why must the thread be shut down? Are we children in danger of being corrupted? Why would you carry on reading a thread if it upsets you, it's not as if there aren't a hundred threads about cameras lenses and bags if that's what your after.
Hit the nail on the head there.

I think, in all seriousness, threads like this are valuable. Not to start, as the kids put it "flame wars", but too be able to address issues that are, in all other circumstances, "difficult" to address.

We are all adults here ( apart from those of us who don't wish to act as if we are ) and we should be allowed to get into discussions that can get quite heated. I mean, we're likely to do it in real life, where there is greater chance of fall out/consequences/collateral damage, so why can't we do it on an internet forum?

Peoples personalities have a habit of changing when they're hidden behind the anonymity of the 'net. And then there are people who are just as unpleasant in real life.

I think in so far as, as long as you are able to balance being able to post straight, honest posts and temper this with a little humility and common courtesy, then no harm will be done, even when things get "passionate".

This should apply to everyone - mods included. They are not beyond reproach and I feel that most mods probably would not likely question another mods behaviour, even if it is blatantly disproportionate.

Now, lets try not make me post something this sensible again for some time. Thanks.
 

Old 08-14-2013   #171
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Not you for sure.

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Which guy?? How do I know who you're referring to?

to avoid being guilty of the same thing:
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Old 08-14-2013   #172
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Not you for sure.
I wasn't trying to be "sensitive" (ie. I didn't think you were referring to me, because I'd not yet posted to the thread) I just wanted to know...
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Old 08-14-2013   #173
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Hit the nail on the head there.

I think, in all seriousness, threads like this are valuable. Not to start, as the kids put it "flame wars", but too be able to address issues that are, in all other circumstances, "difficult" to address.

We are all adults here ( apart from those of us who don't wish to act as if we are ) and we should be allowed to get into discussions that can get quite heated. I mean, we're likely to do it in real life, where there is greater chance of fall out/consequences/collateral damage, so why can't we do it on an internet forum?

Peoples personalities have a habit of changing when they're hidden behind the anonymity of the 'net. And then there are people who are just as unpleasant in real life.

I think in so far as, as long as you are able to balance being able to post straight, honest posts and temper this with a little humility and common courtesy, then no harm will be done, even when things get "passionate".

This should apply to everyone - mods included. They are not beyond reproach and I feel that most mods probably would not likely question another mods behaviour, even if it is blatantly disproportionate.

Now, lets try not make me post something this sensible again for some time. Thanks.
I would love to say that I agree with you but, in real life face to face ,you may have those who keeping trying to butt in, but in reality you just tell them to butt out, because you can see that they are just being inflammatory.
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Old 08-14-2013   #174
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I would love to say that I agree with you but, in real life face to face ,you may have those who keeping trying to butt in, but in reality you just tell them to butt out, because you can see that they are just being inflammatory.
But "butting in" isn't really an issue on a public forum, is it? Its difficult to have a thread where there is no other involvement. Well, it isn't - but its not going to be a very long thread.

If you anyone wants private conversations, there there are appropriate conduits for such discussions. Forums aren't one of those conduits.

So, given that people can join in with our conversations (even though we may hope that certain people don't), if we all apply the same methodology as I have cited previously, then we shouldn't go to far wrong.
 

Old 08-14-2013   #175
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But "butting in" isn't really an issue on a public forum, is it? Its difficult to have a thread where there is no other involvement. Well, it isn't - but its not going to be a very long thread.

If you anyone wants private conversations, there there are appropriate conduits for such discussions. Forums aren't one of those conduits.

So, given that people can join in with our conversations (even though we may hope that certain people don't), if we all apply the same methodology as I have cited previously, then we shouldn't go to far wrong.
Ha, ha! I agree again but there is contribution to achieve a goal that enhances and there is inflammatory dribble (for want of a better word) that just saps the life.
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Old 08-14-2013   #176
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It became popular in corporate meetings to allow everyone to speak, it got so out of hand it seemed like we were going to have to invite the window washer in to hear an opinion.

As a consultant I finally had enough of it, and would sometimes say, "I am very expensive, you hired me for my ideas, you can do the touchy-feely-everyone-talks -- later when I am not on the clock."

The beauty of this forum is you can just NOT hear (READ) those uninformed opinions you don't need, and you are not in any way obligated to "correct" them. And there is even an "ignore" list option. Can you imagine how great it would be if there was an "ignore" button on the subway for instance?
Thank you.

Remember the title of this thread: "who should be banned"


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Old 08-14-2013   #177
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Ha, ha! I agree again but there is contribution to achieve a goal that enhances and there is inflammatory dribble (for want of a better word) that just saps the life.
Yeah, I whole heartedly agree. But we can deal with most of such dribble by applying the proportionate/necessary/justifiable rule. Speak when we know we are right, don't when we know we are not. If we are not sure, then, say so. Honesty goes a long way. Usually, if we apply these methods, most issues will sort themselves out. And I would argue, mods should allow them to.

Its only in the rare instances when this fails (usually at a point when an offending party starts to resort to name calling etc) then a mod should step in and deal, proportionately and justifiably.
 

Old 08-14-2013   #178
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The beauty of this forum is you can just NOT hear (READ) those uninformed opinions you don't need, and you are not in any way obligated to "correct" them. And there is even an "ignore" list option.
I have always considered this to one of the strengths of this forum.
Not that I`ve ever had reason to use the facility .
Some things have irritated me but then that`s life.
 

Old 08-14-2013   #179
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I have always considered this to one of the strengths of this forum.
Not that I`ve ever had reason to use the facility .
Some things have irritated me but then that`s life.
I did not know it existed! My own fault for not checking my surroundings.
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Old 08-14-2013   #180
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I find this thread pointless. I don't understand it, and to me all it's doing is inviting sniping and bickering and getting away from what this forum is supposed to be about.

A couple months ago, when Joe and Roger were getting into heated "discussions" and some other similar arguments were going on nonstop, I found myself stepping away from RFF. There is no other forum I regularly visit, so it's not as if I went elsewhere. Instead, I chose to spend my time photographing. You know, rather than watching photographers (or gear collectors) snipe at one another. I feel I've really benefited from the time away. Unfortunately, I see that the same things are still going on.
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Old 08-14-2013   #181
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I'd like a "Lord of the Flies" event at least once a week.

Someone should be identified as "Piggy", for some completely random reason. Maybe because he spelled something wrong, maybe for no reason at all. Maybe because this person was outed as being obese, or an being a member of a race we didn't like.

Then, this person should be declared "banned" and hounded off the forum. Not simply by being thrown out by a moderator, but the entire forum should gang up and insult him, reduce him to tears, send him horrible emails, wreck his Facebook page, maybe try to get him fired from his job.

If someone lives in the vicinity of the random victim of the week, a howling, torchlight mob should physically chase him down the street, naked, until he is reduced to insanity or placed in a madhouse.
 

Old 08-14-2013   #182
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I'm not sure I have much more personally to add to this thread, but am glad it was started by Joe, and feel some quite worthwhile points have been raised, as well as some quite bizarre/ personal ones. Hopefully the latter are not enough to obfuscate the former, as think there are some valid observations here that could only improve rff, if taken on board.

The only real thing I would wish to add to the conversation, is to add a personal wish of more transparency around the moderation that happens. I see this in other forums, and feel it to be invaluable, especially with regard to probably ensuring that some issues here presently would probably not even arise. In any public community, the benefits of transparency are valuable ones, and I think things here at rff could only be improved by such.

I think I will bow out now.
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Old 08-14-2013   #183
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I find this thread pointless. I don't understand it, and to me all it's doing is inviting sniping and bickering and getting away from what this forum is supposed to be about.

A couple months ago, when Joe and Roger were getting into heated "discussions" and some other similar arguments were going on nonstop, I found myself stepping away from RFF. There is no other forum I regularly visit, so it's not as if I went elsewhere. Instead, I chose to spend my time photographing. You know, rather than watching photographers (or gear collectors) snipe at one another. I feel I've really benefited from the time away. Unfortunately, I see that the same things are still going on.
Andy, with respect, there are literally thousands of other threads that are not like this. So long as these sorts of threads are in the minority, I think they should be allowed to run their course. Yes, this is a photographic community, but because of the second word (community), occasionally discussions like this are inevitable.

As previously stated, you don't have to become involved in the discussion if it doesn't sit well with you - indeed, you could ignore it and concentrate on leading by example and posting something that you would feel that would merit the community as whole about a subject that you are passionate about. Don't get bent out of shape about it.
 

Old 08-14-2013   #184
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Andy, with respect, there are literally thousands of other threads that are not like this. So long as these sorts of threads are in the minority, I think they should be allowed to run their course. Yes, this is a photographic community, but because of the second word (community), occasionally discussions like this are inevitable.

As previously stated, you don't have to become involved in the discussion if it doesn't sit well with you - indeed, you could ignore it and concentrate on leading by example and posting something that you would feel that would merit the community as whole about a subject that you are passionate about. Don't get bent out of shape about it.
I am not in the least bent out of shape about it. I don't think I said anything to give that indication. All I am saying is that it's disappointing.
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Old 08-14-2013   #185
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I find this thread pointless. I don't understand it, and to me all it's doing is inviting sniping and bickering and getting away from what this forum is supposed to be about.
.
Completely agree!
Let's see more pictures with Leica camera and lens!
 

Old 08-14-2013   #186
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I'd like a "Lord of the Flies" event at least once a week.

Someone should be identified as "Piggy", for some completely random reason. Maybe because he spelled something wrong, maybe for no reason at all. Maybe because this person was outed as being obese, or an being a member of a race we didn't like.

Then, this person should be declared "banned" and hounded off the forum. Not simply by being thrown out by a moderator, but the entire forum should gang up and insult him, reduce him to tears, send him horrible emails, wreck his Facebook page, maybe try to get him fired from his job.

If someone lives in the vicinity of the random victim of the week, a howling, torchlight mob should physically chase him down the street, naked, until he is reduced to insanity or placed in a madhouse.
What you've described sounds a lot like what I've seen of tumblr. (don't even get me started on Youtube)
 

Old 08-14-2013   #187
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Regarding the original question:

Expressing an opinion that pushes up against the current politically correct taboos should not be grounds for expulsion. As adults, we can survive this. As forum members, we can ignore these individuals, or threads.

What I see as grounds for expulsion would be activity that is repeated after the mods have warned that a specific behavior will be grounds for expulsion. Grounds for banishment might include activity that directly and viciously attacks another member, repeated intrusions into multiple posts with comments that are completely off topic and promotion, or advertising a product for personal gain. Again, banishment would be after repeated violations and following warnings and discussion on the part of mods and the violator.

I don't think that a wild free for all works. I avoided DPreview for a long time because many threads devolved into a series of personal attacks.
 

Old 08-14-2013   #188
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There are some posts on previous pages about various peoples' presumed attitude.

On another forum I used to participate in I finally figured out that there were some particular attitudinal poses and quirks of thinking taken by people of various nationalities, to the extent that I would try to guess where a new person was from before looking at his profile. Not having met them off the board, I have never figured out if that was because they were jerks, because that's the way their culture uses language, or what. Some of the national bands of behavior were quite strikingly offensive (one group I'm thinking of seems to have two modes: very polite, and very offensive), and I see the same thing here. Realizing that I don't really know the people behind the comments, I try to ignore it as much as possible and get to the message, not the presentation.

Please realize that the above characterizations are just hobby observations. While I haven't met the specific people on that board, I have met people from those countries, and in person they're pretty much like everyone else, face to face, when one gets ALL of the clues, beyond the small set that the internet offers up.

Anyway, I don't take projected attitudes as seriously as I take the core of the message, though sometimes it's difficult.
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Old 08-14-2013   #189
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lots of strange reading and all on my first cup of coffee for the day.
seems like a bit of little girl giggly stuff combined with little boy bullying...

why people are being singled out and made fun of is beyond me...really?
gossip at purelight...like that's news!

you people can be funny.

at any rate...this thread has lost it's appeal and some of it's sanity so i am about to close it...not to censor you but just so i can stop reading it and to give you all the opportunity to go about your own business.
i thank you all for the information, some of it it has been enlightening...
 
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