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Jupiter-12 to Canon P?
Old 09-30-2005   #1
planetjoe
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Jupiter-12 to Canon P?

Hi, everyone.

I realize that this combination is regularly "waved off" with a common warning about the rear element crashing into the P's baffles, but I've lately seen some scattered suggestions that it is, at least, sometimes possible.

Has anyone here had this particular success? I'm interested in learning which of the several design variations of the J-12 (i.e., which serial no.'s/years) seems to fit.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have a similar post over at photonet, so I hope I'm not "over-fishing", so to speak. Thanks in advance for your help and anecdotes.


-joe.
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Old 09-30-2005   #2
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never tried it myself.

welcome to the forum.

joe
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Old 09-30-2005   #3
Stephanie Brim
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Never tried it either...but if you find out, let me know. I need a 35 for some shots I want to do in the next couple of weeks and I can't really afford more than 100 bucks for another lens. The Canon 35/2.8 is even going for higher than that on Ebay. I'm bummed.
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Old 09-30-2005   #4
xayraa33
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My Ltm J-12s on the Canon P:...... 1953 silver J-12 , no go,... 1960 silver J- 12, ok, good fit.... 1977 J-12 , black, ok good fit... 1978 J-12 black, ok, good fit .The 1953 J-12. seems to be happy on a Zorki 1 & 4 and a Fed 5c, it is not compatable with the Canons or Ltm Leicas. So most of my Jupiter -12s can be used on most of my Canons( the exception is a Canon III) & Ltm Leicas. Most J-12s fit the Canon models it seems, probably from the IIIa(universal thread) onwards.but knowing FSU gear can vary somewhat, I would suggest some carefull exploration & trials.
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Old 09-30-2005   #5
planetjoe
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...thanks for the welcome; I've been lurking for some time, learning a ton.

I'm in a similar financial predicament as Stephanie - although I usually don't mind my predicaments very wisely. I'll probably be buying a J-12 to "try" it out, anyway. It will always re-sell, I figure.

...besides which, I don't think the P will be my last (or only) LTM rangefinder for long. It will probably remain one of my favorites, though.


-joe.
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Old 09-30-2005   #6
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'It will probably remain one of my favorites, though.'

as it should

joe
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Old 09-30-2005   #7
planetjoe
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xayraa33:

That's precisely the kind of info I was looking for. Now, at least, I know I wasn't hallucinating about this combination being possible. And, you're undoubtedly right about the FSU "variabilities".

Hopefully, it won't take much trial and/or error. Thanks. And maybe other "users" will crawl out of the woodwork; it'll be like a revival meeting of underground 35-shooters.


-joe.
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Old 09-30-2005   #8
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From my tests with the Ltm Jupiter 12s, it seems that most of them fit the Canon P. The J -12 is a fine lens & if you get one that does not fit the Canon P, buy a Zorki 4 for it. Classic FSU lens meets classic FSU body.
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Old 09-30-2005   #9
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Hey welcome !

Greyhoundman has now my ltm J-12. It was a black 1981 version (IIRC), I was able to mount that one on my Canon 7, with similar inner baffles as the P. That said, the edge of the rear element came REALLY close to the upper baffle, to the point where I highly preferred to use my CV lens on it.

The J-12 is a good lens, but after getting a Canon 35/2.8 for that 'classic look', I decided it was not meant for sitting on the shelf...
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Old 09-30-2005   #10
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I would hedge my bet on a Black J-12 from the mid to late 1970s that is in great shape. I would slowly screw it on an empty Canon P that is set on'B" & shutter is held open by a lockable cable release. From the cameras open back, I would see if the protuding glass element of the J-12 is touching the baffles & that you can actually screw the lens in all the way, on my 1953 J-12, I cannot screw the lens in so it is "flange to flange"but all my other J-12s are good, the focus is smooth and the rangefinder on the P has no problem, ranging properly to infinity
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Old 09-30-2005   #11
Stephanie Brim
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If anyone wants to sell one that will fit on a Canon P to save me the hassle of trying to find one, I'd be much obliged. :P
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Jupiter-12 manufacture dates
Old 09-30-2005   #12
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Jupiter-12 manufacture dates

Obliged if anybody could advise how - or provide a URL to information - on how to work it out.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-30-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airds
Obliged if anybody could advise how - or provide a URL to information - on how to work it out.

Thanks in advance.

On the Jupiter 12 the first two digits of the SN are the year of manufacture.
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Doh! Jupiter dates ...
Old 09-30-2005   #14
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Doh! Jupiter dates ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiev4a
On the Jupiter 12 the first two digits of the SN are the year of manufacture.
Thanks Wayne

Doh! A Homer minute there - sometimes it's the simplest things .... these cunning Soviets :-)

That makes it s a '76 model and fits only just in my VI-L - so agrees with the current theory. It was fitted on receiving the camera & lens, so any cosmetic damage was already done.
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Old 10-18-2005   #15
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By the way - and I didn't mean for this to take so long, but you know shipping from the FSU - my J-12 arrived today, and it was all I could do to wait until getting home from work to try it out on my P.

As it turns out, an initial inspection shows NO interference with the baffles or the lightbox assembly in my particular case. I have a rather breathtaking example of a black enamel J-12, #87XXXXX, which on quick investigation seems to focus correctly. I should finish my current test roll in about ten nanoseconds, so if there are any more subtle issues, I'll know shortly.

Thanks, to everyone, for their contributions to this "project" of mine; I hope that this thread can contribute to more folks enjoying J-12s on their Canon Ps. Because, if I might say so, the combination looks SO nice. And I bet it shoots even nicer.

Now all I have to do is figure out what do do with my recently-acquired, out-of-registration J-8 50/2. I guess that's what I get for an $8 lens.


Cheers,
-joe.
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Old 10-18-2005   #16
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I am happy it turned out ok for you, I knew that it would. the P is a great camera and the Jupiter-12 is one of my favorite lenses, a nice combination I would say.
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Old 10-18-2005   #17
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i think we need a pic of that!!

joe
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Old 10-18-2005   #18
planetjoe
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et, voila.

Sorry for the shallow DOF; no convenient tripod (or steady hand) handy. And in the interest of full disclosure, this image was captured with a dSLR.


-joe.
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Old 10-18-2005   #19
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lovely!!

my poor ol' heart just skips a beat when i see a beautiful canon p.
i assume it's the same feeling that leica folks talk about...

thanks joe,

joe
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Old 10-18-2005   #20
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handsome, really handsome.
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Old 10-18-2005   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley
my poor ol' heart just skips a beat when i see a beautiful canon p.

Crikey Joe, you had me worried for a moment there!
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Old 10-18-2005   #22
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no worries mate!
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VI-L & J12
Old 10-19-2005   #23
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VI-L & J12

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetjoe
I hope that this thread can contribute to more folks enjoying J-12s on their Canon Ps. Because, if I might say so, the combination looks SO nice. And I bet it shoots even nicer.

-joe.

Joe
You may find it flares a wee bit into the light and needs a hood - the Heavystar vented 40.5 mm ideal .... pic hopefully to follow but here's a VI-T with the Jupiter-12
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Old 10-19-2005   #24
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My ! Looks beautiful !

I'm starting to have seller's remorse on my own J-12
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Old 10-19-2005   #25
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My black J-12 serial number 84xxxxx fits without problems (I looked very carefully with the shutter locked open ) on my recently aquired Canon 7.

/Anders
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Old 10-19-2005   #26
planetjoe
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Airds:

Your advice is well-received. I was actually wondering about the flare issue myself, after I received the J-12, and I sort of wondered if the deeply-recessed front element wouldn't give me an extra margin of safety. Apparently, like you suggest, not in all conditions.

At any rate, I have one of Heavystar's 40.5mm vented shades (for my Industar-61 L/D), and mounted it just for fun. The lines of sight seem to work out fine, which is very nice, considering that this hood (I think) is optimized for a 50mm FOV. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

But here's the interesting bit: the mounted hood makes it a breeze to change aperture, almost especially since the J-12 has no click-stops (low turning resistance). It's like an aperture ring extension, and it JUST clears the end of travel for the helicoid as the lens racks in. Wow. Yeah, you'll have to peer down into the lens to SEE the f-stop setting, but really, what's the big deal? It's better than the fiddly thumb-forefinger method you'd use otherwise.

But it does ruin the lines, somewhat. At least, in my opinion.

I actually have another identical vented shade coming, from *bay user americaneagle_camera. Heavystar hadn't had any in his inventory for a while, and I seem to be splitting at the seams with FSU LTM lenses. We'll see.

My impression (helped along by info from the likes of xayraa33 and AndersG, among others), is that the only J-12s one must really beware are the early batches, especially the ones before 1957 or so. I've heard good things about the '57s, so I'm only assuming that the later ones also fall into line. I think that the manufacturing lines changed facilities somewhere in this time period, so perhaps the packaging of the rear lens group changed somewhat. Of course, this says nothing about the variabilities within the batches.

Can you tell that I'm at work again, longing to go home and shoot around? Of course you can.


-joe.
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J12
Old 10-19-2005   #27
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J12

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetjoe
Airds:


But here's the interesting bit: the mounted hood makes it a breeze to change aperture, almost especially since the J-12 has no click-stops (low turning resistance). It's like an aperture ring extension, and it JUST clears the end of travel for the helicoid as the lens racks in. Wow. Yeah, you'll have to peer down into the lens to SEE the f-stop setting, but really, what's the big deal? It's better than the fiddly thumb-forefinger method you'd use otherwise.
Must agree Joe - but it makes it TOO easy to shift f-stops :-( Having click stops would have been great.

I was thinking of putting some id mark or sticker on the rim of the hood to identify a stop, maybe f8 - that could be seen through the viewfinder, but of course any tightening/loosening of the hood would throw it out - although the extremes of 'travel' for f2.8 and f22 are easy enough!

Without the hood, and although it's a poor print & scan, you can easily see the aperture blades effects facing (well) into the light on my pic Calm - just above the yacht crew.


rdgs
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Old 10-19-2005   #28
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By 1961 , the Jupiter -12 lens production shifted from the Krasnogorsk mechanical & optical works to the Lytkarino mechanical & optical factory. The J 12s from about 1955 and earlier, seem to be the ones that do not fit on Canon LTM cameras from the IIIa to the rest of the later Canon LTM range. These early J-12s do not fit my Canons or on my Leica IIIc . There are a lot of other LTM lenses that do not fit the Canon models made before the Canon IIIa, also it seems.
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Re-skinned P
Old 10-19-2005   #29
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Re-skinned P

Was rummaging around the 'net earlier and came across what looks like a re-skinned P with the Jupiter-12 .... hmmm-mm. (A Japanese language page; ~ halfway down)
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