Old 05-07-2017   #41
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You trash my scans because of some fixable banding and then post these as counter examples? I can't tell if this is hilarious or some kind of absurd farce.

DSLR copy work can't properly compensate for the orange mask, and you'd need to do HDR work to bring back the available dynamic range. A pixel shift camera would be better for this but you still have the color issues. DSLR work is only decent for B&W and Chrome. Even then you would benefit from a wet scan because slides even in their mounts are not flat. Who cares if you can AF on the center if the edges are out of focus. Even if you can get them in the DoF you'd have a warped image.

I think you're seeing your camera resolve detail and deciding that it's then ok if the sand is green and the skin tones are some kind of sickly orange. And for the 35mm image, if you think that's what Portra 400 is supposed to look like, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Old 05-08-2017   #42
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Originally Posted by SaveKodak View Post
You trash my scans because of some fixable banding and then post these as counter examples? I can't tell if this is hilarious or some kind of absurd farce.

DSLR copy work can't properly compensate for the orange mask, and you'd need to do HDR work to bring back the available dynamic range. A pixel shift camera would be better for this but you still have the color issues. DSLR work is only decent for B&W and Chrome. Even then you would benefit from a wet scan because slides even in their mounts are not flat. Who cares if you can AF on the center if the edges are out of focus. Even if you can get them in the DoF you'd have a warped image.

I think you're seeing your camera resolve detail and deciding that it's then ok if the sand is green and the skin tones are some kind of sickly orange. And for the 35mm image, if you think that's what Portra 400 is supposed to look like, then I don't know what to tell you.


scanning is better? yes: for dedicated scanners and no: for most of scanner

using a 60 micro nikkor an f8-11, a d810, a color enlarger head and negative carrier (correcting towards green-blue), repro column and i get decent fast raw scans (pretty decent and pretty fast) and itīs hard to pull out more things from 35mm color negs (color, tonality, detail)

if you are doing things well you can get good things

nothing substitutes a imacon or drum scanner though
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Old 05-08-2017   #43
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Old 05-08-2017   #44
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a color enlarger head and negative carrier (correcting towards green-blue),
This is a good idea, is it dichroic, or some kind of colored filters? I don't know much about these, and I wonder if this could be done with some gel filters..

edit:actually, I'd still have to invert it and all the rest of it. I guess I'll stick with my V500.
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Old 05-08-2017   #45
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I agree that scanning color film or slides with a digital camera may not be the best solution. I can eventually get colors I like in post processing - I have and know how to use Affinity Photo, Lightroom and Photoshop - but doing so is such a PITA that it's not worth it for me. I use the Plustek 7100 for 35mm color negatives and the V700 for larger b&w or color negatives and for slides of any size.

But all of my current photography is with 35mm b&w film and scanning with the X-E2 is far and away the fastest and easiest solution for me, and it produces the best results. The BEOON mask holds the film, even Tri-X, absolutely flat and the resolution of the film grain with the X-Trans sensor and Iridient X-Transformer conversion is very very good.
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Old 05-08-2017   #46
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Originally Posted by charjohncarter View Post
Here is what I did. It worked great.

Untitled by John Carter, on Flickr
Interesting. I actually have a slide copier that was given to me and that I have never used. Always wondered what I would ever do with it.... this might be the ticket....though I already have a very good film scanner.
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Old 05-08-2017   #47
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Originally Posted by SaveKodak View Post

I think you're seeing your camera resolve detail and deciding that it's then ok if the sand is green and the skin tones are some kind of sickly orange. And for the 35mm image, if you think that's what Portra 400 is supposed to look like, then I don't know what to tell you.
Color shift is from Fuji 160NPS expired in July 2000 and Kodak Portra 400 expired in 2010.

Zero banding. Perfect sharpness corner to corner with no warping. Easiest one to see this on is the black and white image - look at the giraffe head on the left edge. Took me 20 seconds per image.

I understand that things like color reproduction is a matter of taste. And it is valid to say you do not like these colors. I shoot expired film for fun.
When it is serious work, then fresh film it is.

But a banding scanner that produces out of focus images is not a matter of taste. It's defective.

It is interesting that you point to defects that are not there such as warped images. That everyone can see are not there. But you denied banding and focus issues in your images. That everyone can see are there. And then you got a little, umm, upset. A tone that is reflective here.

I guess I would be defensive too if I made the mistake of cracking open the case of a $1300 scanner so I could not return it.

This thread shows what can be done with equipment that many people already have, in a matter of seconds.

I'm glad you found time to comment and enjoy.
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Old 05-08-2017   #48
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Originally Posted by ruilourosa View Post

nothing substitutes a imacon or drum scanner though
Results from drum scanners are insane!
A colleague has done some for me that are in my gallery from 4by5 negatives (images of Elvis Presley the summer before he became famous never seen before by anyone - long story but the photog who took them was an 18yr old kid in the AirForce at the time who then 'lost' them but were found last year by his son who is a friend). Anyway, these are printed at 40 by 60 and have zero grain and insane richness and sharpness. You can put your nose against the print and see the wear marks on his guitar and pick!
Nothing beats drum scans.
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Old 05-08-2017   #49
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Interesting. I actually have a slide copier that was given to me and that I have never used. Always wondered what I would ever do with it.... this might be the ticket....though I already have a very good film scanner.
I quit using this because of the logistics of my computer, copier, and cables. And I have a scanner that is good for 120 and 4x5. I do 35mm for small prints with my scanner but if I want to do anything larger than 5x7 I use the digital plus the slide copier.
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Old 05-08-2017   #50
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Old 05-08-2017   #51
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Old 05-08-2017   #52
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Does anyone know of a good slide copier for Canon cameras? Or will the Nikon one work just as well?
The Nikon one I mention will work as long as you can connect its 52mm filter thread to your lens. My lens has a 62mm thread and so I use a 62-52mm step down ring.
This only works for 35mm film (regular or pano - you can stich the pano images in LR).
For 120 you will need the copy stand and light pad.

And no matter what, you will need a macro lens!
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Old 05-08-2017   #53
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If anyone in the LA area wants a hands on demonstration or would like to check out the set up (and see if it can work w/ your outfit), you can swing by my gallery in San Pedro. I'm always there on Saturdays.
People have already done this to try out lenses!

Just let me know ahead of time. You can pm me off line.
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Old 05-08-2017   #54
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Some years ago I was inspired by this thread: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...itizing+slides
I used a laptop screen for a light source.
I have since lost the laptop, but have gained a better lens and camera.
Maybe I need to try it again.
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Old 05-08-2017   #55
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Some years ago I was inspired by this thread: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...itizing+slides
I used a laptop screen for a light source.
I have since lost the laptop, but have gained a better lens and camera.
Maybe I need to try it again.
The laptop screen will show pixels. You need to use a proper light pad which are less than $90.
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Old 05-08-2017   #56
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Old 05-08-2017   #57
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I put a piece of mylar over the screen and it worked great, no more pixels.
Also added a 4" piece of pvc pipe around the slide/lens to cut out the room light and things got even better then.
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Old 05-08-2017   #58
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Not exactly copy-printing negatives but, from my cine work, I would say, if you're using LEDs, it pays to buy a lightpad with a CRI of 90+. My guess is that you'll get even better color results (as well as black and white, but it is less important overall). Much better DR and accuracy. I've been using LiteGear's panels on film and digital shoots - they're great. Not sure if they make anything smaller than 20in, but I know they have a custom shop.
Good info, thanks!
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Old 05-08-2017   #59
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I put a piece of mylar over the screen and it worked great, no more pixels.
Also added a 4" piece of pvc pipe around the slide/lens to cut out the room light and things got even better then.
Cute! I gotta ask, how old is that image?
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Old 05-08-2017   #60
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Man, a lot of posts are gone. Hard to follow the thread. I'm assuming they were whiny and counter-productive. Oh well.

I'm using a Macro/DSLR setup for my 120 film, and my killer of a deal Coolscan 5000 for my 35mm scans. Best of both worlds. I like seeing other peoples info on the Macro method. Very informative.
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Old 05-08-2017   #61
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
I found it difficult to focus the negative accurately, and now use a dedicated scanner.
Focus stacking to deal with curvature of the film??
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Old 05-08-2017   #62
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Originally I was using a Leica 60/2.8 lens but recently switched to an OM 80/4 auto macro. Looks like it gives better IQ than the Leica and curiously less degradation of the corners but I need to investigate more as it doesn;t make sense to me.
The Olympus OM 80/4 auto macro is one of few lenses optimized for 1:1, most macro lenses are optimized for more like 1:3 or 1:5. The net result is what you observe: better edge to edge. Not as important for shooting a flower or a bug, but makes a difference for shooting stamps, coins, other flat objects and for this application.

Another is the APO-Rodigon D 1:1 lens.
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Old 05-08-2017   #63
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I've been scanning with my DSLR for a few years. I'm using a Canon 1Ds Mark III, Canon 100mm f2.8, Huion lightpad and a 35mm and 120mm negative holder to keep the film flat.

My steps are to.

- Place the film mounted in the holder on the light pad at its highest setting on the floor.
- Mount DSLR on tripod and aim straight down at the film.
- Set camera to manual, turn on mirror lock up and 10 second timer, adjust negative to lens distance so the negative fills the DSLR viewfinder, set lens to f8 and adjust shutter speed for proper exposure (usually somewhere around 1/8 sec)
- Focus and take the photo.

- After all the shots are taken load them into Lightroom and adjust the histogram accordingly. For B&W film I set Lightroom to B&W and reverse the histogram. For colour film I adjust the RGB histograms individually.
- The process I use is very similar to THIS YOUTUBE TUTORIAL version.

I never could find a good price on a dedicated flatbed scanner so this technique has been my go to and I've been happy with the results so far.

Bonus: If you want a huge print you can take several close shots of different parts of the negate, edit them as a batch and stitch them together (using the stitching program technique of your choosing) to make a super high resolution scan.
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Old 05-08-2017   #64
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To ptpdprinter, that is a problem. My slidecopier is really tight, but there is still some curvature (not so much with negatives but slides always has a little.). I would use f 11 or f16 on my macro lens to compensate. I also got lucky my camera let me know when I was in focus, but once I achieved good focus it was set for good until I switched to do slides or vice versa.
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Old 05-08-2017   #65
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For my 645 negs I use a Hasselblad imacon knock off film holder. Holds the film flat, no issues. For other 120 formats i have put a piece of anti newton ring glass on top of the film, which flattens the film completely, then a mask in the appropriate size on top of that. I cut those out using black card stock. That works great but frankly using my enlarger film holders has been great and quicker.
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Old 05-09-2017   #66
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I use a Pentax K01 mirrorless camera, a broken Sigma macro lens and lens hoods mounted downwards onto an old film holder to keep the negs flat.

The dust can get really bad but daaaang when I nail the focus on the negative, I get some crazy 16MP resolution that is way beyond anything my Epson V700 can produce.

The great thing about DSLR scanning is that even though dedicated scanners are getting harder and harder to find... I can always find a DSLR and a macro lens and be done with it. It's future proofing film scanning.
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Old 05-09-2017   #67
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The dust can get really bad but daaaang when I nail the focus on the negative, I get some crazy 16MP resolution that is way beyond anything my Epson V700 can produce.
I wipe my negatives with an anti static cloth like this and have very few dust issues.


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...th.html?sts=pi

This is helpful for scanning with a scanner, with a DSLR or straight printing.
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Old 05-09-2017   #68
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Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
The Olympus OM 80/4 auto macro is one of few lenses optimized for 1:1, most macro lenses are optimized for more like 1:3 or 1:5. The net result is what you observe: better edge to edge. Not as important for shooting a flower or a bug, but makes a difference for shooting stamps, coins, other flat objects and for this application.

Another is the APO-Rodigon D 1:1 lens.
Some lenses do better than others. I remember that Olympus lens from many years ago ... it was a fine performer.

For magnifications down to 1:1, I haven't found a better performer than the Leica Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 ... truly outstanding.

But imagine my surprise when I tested the Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/2 and found it to be the best performer out of all the Macro and Enlarging lenses I have when used at magnifications around 2.7:1!

G
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Old 05-09-2017   #69
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My problem with normal prime lenses was/is the film plane focus is curved so even with f11 or f16 there was still fall off (when shooting macro). Maybe the Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/2 is different; none of my 50mm primes worked well. So bought a macro 50mm.
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Old 05-09-2017   #70
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Huss,

Thanks for this thread. Much appreciation for useful, helpful and thoughtful information.

Cal
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Old 05-09-2017   #71
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Old 05-09-2017   #72
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Originally Posted by dugrant153 View Post
The great thing about DSLR scanning is that even though dedicated scanners are getting harder and harder to find... I can always find a DSLR and a macro lens and be done with it. It's future proofing film scanning.
Agreed. With my BEOON setup I can use any camera and any lens with an LTM/M39 (or Leica M) mount.
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Old 05-09-2017   #73
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I wipe my negatives with an anti static cloth like this and have very few dust issues.


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...th.html?sts=pi

This is helpful for scanning with a scanner, with a DSLR or straight printing.
Single wipe or multiple times? I actually do use an anti-static cloth but I guess some dirt still gets caught up somewhere... maybe in the film holder?
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Old 05-09-2017   #74
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- Mount DSLR on tripod and aim straight down at the film.
Any tips to get everything lined up straight and square? This step of the process always seemed like it left the most to luck - sometimes I thought I had everything square then I would scan some slides and find I had something just slightly crooked - and one side or the other was soft.
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Old 05-09-2017   #75
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Huss,

Thanks for this thread. Much appreciation for useful, helpful and thoughtful information.

Cal
You're welcome Cal!

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Originally Posted by DrMcCoy View Post
I've been considering trying to use one of the Flextight holders for 35mm and 6x9 strips. I really want to be able to "scan" out to the register - which seems to be easier on these film holders. In your experience, will this work or is it just going to be a curly mess?
I'm getting my 645 negs back tonight and will let you know in the next day or so. I only bought the imacon holder in 645 size, and this is the first few rolls I've shot since I got it. The regular enlarger holders I've been using for the other formats have worked fine.

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Single wipe or multiple times? I actually do use an anti-static cloth but I guess some dirt still gets caught up somewhere... maybe in the film holder?
A couple of wipes making sure I've passed over the entire film surface. I of course try to make sure the rest of my workspace is clean, and wipe it down with a micro fiber cloth before I start. Not that easy in a household with 2 cats and 3 dogs!

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Any tips to get everything lined up straight and square? This step of the process always seemed like it left the most to luck - sometimes I thought I had everything square then I would scan some slides and find I had something just slightly crooked - and one side or the other was soft.
Using a proper copy stand really helps but the key is to look at the image in Live View. On my Nikon there is a grid option so you can immediately see if things are not lined up correctly.
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Old 05-09-2017   #76
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One tip I heard of, but I have not tried that might be helpful is using that low tack blue masking tap to secure the edges of the negative.

I can see how the tape can pull taunt the negative and remove the transverse curl. Might even help when using negative holders borrowed from out enlargers.

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Old 05-09-2017   #77
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Using a proper copy stand really helps but the key is to look at the image in Live View. On my Nikon there is a grid option so you can immediately see if things are not lined up correctly.
This will be my first try using a camera with Live View. I scanned a lot of slides this way using my D80 but it has no Live View to zoom into. Actually, this is my first camera with a tilt up/down screen, so I think a lot of the backbreaking work of leaning over the camera to see into the viewfinder will be gone! I am excited!
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Old 05-09-2017   #78
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One tip I heard of, but I have not tried that might be helpful is using that low tack blue masking tap to secure the edges of the negative.

I can see how the tape can pull taunt the negative and remove the transverse curl. Might even help when using negative holders borrowed from out enlargers.

Cal
That is a great tip Cal for those that need it! I didn't even think of that.
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Old 05-09-2017   #79
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This will be my first try using a camera with Live View. I scanned a lot of slides this way using my D80 but it has no Live View to zoom into. Actually, this is my first camera with a tilt up/down screen, so I think a lot of the backbreaking work of leaning over the camera to see into the viewfinder will be gone! I am excited!
That is funny because I've never used the tilt screen on my D750 (pretty much forgot it could do that) and when I finally noticed it, life became so much simpler! I now have the set up on a regular height table, as I just flip the screen so it is at eye level.
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Old 05-09-2017   #80
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Lubitel 166 Olympic Edition, Kodak 120 TMAX, scanned with my D750 using the copystand



B&W images are by far the easiest to handle, as there is no colour correction required.

35mm Arista 400. Same deal but using the slide copier

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