Leica M10 or SL?
Old 08-11-2019   #1
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Leica M10 or SL?

If you were to get another Leica camera, and if the choice for you is to pick between a M10 or SL, which camera would you get and why? I have seen RFF friends with M10 and with SL cameras, and it seems that different users have different preferences. In my case, if I get another camera, it will be to complement my M9. I am not a fan of 28mm lenses, or I would have also considered the Q or Q2.

Thank you for your views.
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Old 08-11-2019   #2
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Anything what is not M is not Leica, including anything from Leica without M.

But with SL you will still maintain your special status at forums and in front of those who still thinks what Leica is something special. And with SL you could have much more exotic lenses to buy for extra price and post pictures of the same at the forum.

I know how many older photogs have no choice but EVF, where are better choices for it now instead of SL.
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Old 08-11-2019   #3
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To me, lenses always come first. If you have a collection of M lenses, I'd rather get an M10 body.
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Old 08-11-2019   #4
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For me, whatever is smaller and lighter. As I age, I've discovered that I really hate hauling around largish, heavy cameras and lenses.

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Old 08-11-2019   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Anything what is not M is not Leica
To me, anything not made in Solms or Wetzlar is not Leica. Touché!
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Old 08-11-2019   #6
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I'm afraid of the complex SL menu and focus peaking and so, I'd go for an M10.
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Old 08-11-2019   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giganova View Post
To me, anything not made in Solms or Wetzlar is not Leica. Touché!
You are absolutely right. Here is no single Leica Germany AG made camera, it seems, which hasn't got some dubious issues, which Japanese cameras don't have. What was SL German quality signature? Cracking sensors instead of corroded?
Leica Q collects dust just as GR. And so on. Next to eight thousands dollars camera without dust clean and in body stabilization in 2019. But hey it is same size as M6. What a huge achievement...

You are 100% right, anything not made is Solzlar has local service in most of developed and developing countries, service takes few days, instead of weeks and months. This is so unLeica.

Non Solzlar cameras have more and better functions.
But no aura of German "guality" and "engineering".

Yet, I still rather get used M240 rather than those made in Japan ones.
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Old 08-11-2019   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Anything what is not M is not Leica, including anything from Leica without M.
I wouldn't say it as harsh, because I like the CL and the Q series, but the SL is not my thing at all. M all day long in this scenario.
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Old 08-11-2019   #9
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I am still loving to use my M8 and M9 cameras and I enjoy their simple designs. It feels like using a Leica fim camera. It seems to me that using an SL will imply not to use any other cameras.
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Old 08-11-2019   #10
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The SL can be used with M lenses via an adapter, making the set not too large or heavy. It was released in 2015, and I have not seen posts about problems with the SL. A clean used SL may cost $4000 these days.
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Old 08-11-2019   #11
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Speaking from experience - the SL is a wonderful piece of machinery. The EVF is superb in good light, and really good to good in dim to low-light scenarios. As a platform for both M and R lenses, it's unbeatable. Leica really did their homework to ensure that it mates seamlessly and performs impeccably with all of them. For a time I thought it was the answer to all my digital camera wants and needs.

My relationship to it shifted over time. The size and weight took a toll on my desire to carry the camera with me. I get the best pictures with the camera that's in my hand and it sitting at home didn't help.

The sense of feeling a connection to a camera also felt lacking over time. The things that make the SL such a good platform also make it more of a utilitarian object as opposed to an everyday companion. Combined with the size and weight concerns, I just never bonded with it. Eventually I sold it to fund an M10 and have no regrets whatsoever. My blunt summation:

The SL a fine appliance, but the M10 is a camera.
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Old 08-11-2019   #12
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Thanks for your input. I love using my very basic and small Standard Leica for its simplicity. There is no need to focus and I guess the exposure. It is back to basics. Your words match closely my "fears" about having a camera such as the SL.
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Old 08-11-2019   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I wouldn't say it as harsh, because I like the CL and the Q series, but the SL is not my thing at all. M all day long in this scenario.
If not used M240, I might get used Q. Classic shapes of M, not CL, fitted in last minute, before production starts (Oops, we really can't sell cameras like this without EVF anymore), EVF bump.

IMO, CL is totally behind of current camera manufacturing for cropped sensor cameras. IMO, it is camera for those who need Leica label for some (but not photography related) reason.
No image stabilization at all in this camera class is so lame.
Some non-Leica made one kilogram lens is needed if you want fast 35mm lens equivalent.

While Q has OIS and focus tab. Put OVF bright-finder, EVF on magnifying loop and it is GW's twenty first century street kit.
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Old 08-11-2019   #14
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Back to my question: pick M10 or SL ?

Why or why not?
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Old 08-11-2019   #15
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.. and I have not seen posts about problems with the SL..
You havent tried google?
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Old 08-11-2019   #16
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Well, I look here for such issues, Huss.

Are there far more issues with the SL when compared with the M10? Which problems have been reported (anywhere)?
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Old 08-11-2019   #17
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When I decided to give my old Leica x1 a bigger sister I had for a short time the same issue, thinking that an SL with adapter and an M lens is not so much bigger than the M, not sure about the weight.

But when I realized that using the M10 was so similar to use the M7 any doubt disappeared and I went for it, with a little help from my wife

I later bought the EVF which I only seldom use and as an accessory for a camera intended to be used mainly with the VF is not bad...i know there are better VFs around...

It depends a lot on your shooting style, your preferred subject, but this you already know!

robert
PS: this is my personal opinion which of course could be wrong...but usually it isn't
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Old 08-11-2019   #18
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Thank you for your feedback, Robert. I know what you mean,
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Old 08-11-2019   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
You havent tried google?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Well, I look here for such issues, Huss.

Are there far more issues with the SL when compared with the M10? Which problems have been reported (anywhere)?
You havent tried google? How many people on RFF own an SL? 5? You don't want a bigger data pool than that?
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Old 08-11-2019   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
If you were to get another Leica camera, and if the choice for you is to pick between a M10 or SL, which camera would you get and why? I have seen RFF friends with M10 and with SL cameras, and it seems that different users have different preferences. In my case, if I get another camera, it will be to complement my M9. I am not a fan of 28mm lenses, or I would have also considered the Q or Q2.

Thank you for your views.
It's fun to spend some time agonizing over which new toy to get. But I think you really want an M10. I know I do. It's just a matter of time.
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Old 08-11-2019   #21
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If you only want to use standard lenses, them the M10 is the obvious choice. But if you need to reach further or have a need to tap into the ever-growing range of L-mount lenses, the SL is the obvious choice. Its all about the lenses, baby!
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Old 08-11-2019   #22
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I'd choose M10 for sure: Leica M is familiar and comfortable with 35 and 50mm lenses, and for me, live view would be a welcome addition versus M8/M9. It has iconic looks and just-right size.

I haven't tried Leica SL. I imagine it offers more modern lens designs, but it's also competing more directly with Sony and that's not a good place to be.
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Old 08-11-2019   #23
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I've owned the M10 for a couple of years and it's a wonderful camera. I've also toyed with the idea of owning a SL since it was released.

I wouldn't give up my M10 for the SL...but for using M lenses with an EVF based camera, the SL has some appeal. I've tried most of the other mirrorless bodies with M lenses and they all fall short with some lenses, IMO. The SL seems to have the most promise since it can at least identify the lens, and it has a thinner cover glass than most (all?). However, it would be more appealing if it had IBIS, more megapixels, and a better grip. A lower price wouldn't hurt either
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Old 08-11-2019   #24
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M10 - its a rangefinder and I like the M lenses.
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Old 08-11-2019   #25
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Quote:
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IMO, CL is totally behind of current camera manufacturing for cropped sensor cameras. IMO, it is camera for those who need Leica label for some (but not photography related) reason.
I agree somewhat...since I prefer Fuji, but the CL is certainly a nice camera that is very capable. It is just way too expensive.
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Old 08-11-2019   #26
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I love my M lenses, but they could be used with the SL via an adapter by Leica. This is not an issue for me. The SL is larger and heavier than the M10. This could be an issue.
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Old 08-11-2019   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
If you were to get another Leica camera, and if the choice for you is to pick between a M10 or SL, which camera would you get and why? I have seen RFF friends with M10 and with SL cameras, and it seems that different users have different preferences. In my case, if I get another camera, it will be to complement my M9. I am not a fan of 28mm lenses, or I would have also considered the Q or Q2.

Thank you for your views.
Hi Raid. I had the same dilemma several months ago: M10 or SL? I already had several M lenses which I had used on film Leica bodies and on the M9. In the end I went for the M10 because of its familiar small size (same footprint as the M6 classic, although a tiny bit taller) and the rangefinder style of focussing. I didn't have any R lenses and did not want to invest in another new lens format.
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Old 08-11-2019   #28
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Thanks, Monz.
I am also having such thoughts.
There is no need for me to use lenses from many different lens mounts,
My Leica lenses and adapted lenses will do.

(Happy Eid)
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Old 08-11-2019   #29
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Hi Raid

Whilst I still enjoy using an RF in my film M`s I`ve grown accustomed to using an EVF in my digital cameras and seeing exposure and depth of field in real time.

If I were to buy a digital Leica it would therefore have to be the SL or the CL .
The CL would possibly be more attractive for its small form factor .
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Old 08-11-2019   #30
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Thanks, Monz.
I am also having such thoughts.
There is no need for me to use lenses from many different lens mounts,
My Leica lenses and adapted lenses will do.

(Happy Eid)
Happy Eid Raid.
I really like the size and handling of the M10 but I kept getting blown highlights in hight contrast situations initially. I upgraded to the latest firmware (which changed the base ISO to 200) which helped a little. Now, I underexposure slightly to keep details in bright areas and post-process. I don't recall having to do this with the M9.
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Old 08-11-2019   #31
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It is the age old RF/SLR dilemma. People are going to answer it differently. You need to decide for yourself which you prefer. Others can't answer the question for you.
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Old 08-11-2019   #32
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Back to my question: pick M10 or SL ?

Why or why not?
Raid, the whole time I have been on this site, you've been a Leica M user and not someone who changes equipment a lot. I would be curious to hear why you are considering the SL instead of another M.
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Old 08-11-2019   #33
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Neither..
Why not this one..
Smallest full framer..
L mount..thin or no..cover glass..
Supposed to work well w/M lenses..
https://www.cinema5d.com/sigma-fp-fu...ted-cine-mode/

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Old 08-11-2019   #34
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Raid, the whole time I have been on this site, you've been a Leica M user and not someone who changes equipment a lot. I would be curious to hear why you are considering the SL instead of another M.
Actually …. that`s a good point John.
I remember when I first came to this site .
It was to read Raid`s review of M lenses .
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Old 08-11-2019   #35
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Or a Z7, which works well with M lenses, too. Native Z primes are superb at a fraction of any SL lens. IBIS. Properly supported flash interface.
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Old 08-11-2019   #36
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I handled an SL for a bit. It was nice, but ultimately felt like a VHS cassette in my hands, especially compared to the Leica M. I wouldn't give up an optical viewfinder for an electronic one under pretty much any circumstances. The SL native lenses are absolutely huge, and adapted M lenses look a bit funny on the big blocky body.
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Old 08-11-2019   #37
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M10, period.

I’m no fan of adopting lenses. If I buy an SL I would use lenses designed first for use on the SL. Adopting lenses is a royal PITA. I already have a system that utilizes bigger zooms. I own the M system because of the difference in the way it is used and the simplicity and beauty of the use of it.
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Old 08-11-2019   #38
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Hi Raid

Whilst I still enjoy using an RF in my film M`s I`ve grown accustomed to using an EVF in my digital cameras and seeing exposure and depth of field in real time.

If I were to buy a digital Leica it would therefore have to be the SL or the CL .
The CL would possibly be more attractive for its small form factor .
Hi Michael,

I am still a weekly user of M8 and M9, and I am planning ahead for my next camera. I may need to use an M10 and SL for a short while to be able to decide if the SL is too large and heavy and will I miss the RF and such issues.
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Old 08-11-2019   #39
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Happy Eid Raid.
I really like the size and handling of the M10 but I kept getting blown highlights in hight contrast situations initially. I upgraded to the latest firmware (which changed the base ISO to 200) which helped a little. Now, I underexposure slightly and to keep details in bright areas and post-process. I don't recall having to do this with the M9.
I will keep this in mind. Thanks for alerting me to it.
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Old 08-11-2019   #40
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It is the age old RF/SLR dilemma. People are going to answer it differently. You need to decide for yourself which you prefer. Others can't answer the question for you.
I get information. Nobody decides for me.
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