Freshly mixed d76 turned brown
Old 12-20-2017   #1
Rayt
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Freshly mixed d76 turned brown

I mixed a gallon of D76 last night and this morning it was brown. What I usually do is to mix in a gallon pack of powder in 1.9 L of tap water heated on the stove until warm to the feel, stir and let it sit overnight in a 2L plastic chemical container until all residue has been dissolved. The next day I would add water to make a gallon and then separate into 1L containers. What I did differently last night was that I gave it a good shake like a martini shaken not stirred. Did shaking the 1.9L solution in the jug oxidized it some how? This morning I added water to make 1 gallon and while it is not as brown it is not the usual clear D76 I normally get either. I wonder if it is ok to use it or just dump it?
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Old 12-20-2017   #2
x-ray
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Was the powder darker than normal? I've opened several packets of old developer including the old cans of dektol and found it had oxidized in the powdered form. I had several packets of Microdol X and attempted to use it but found all but one packet was oxidized. The powder was coco colored. About a year ago I opened a can of Ethol UFG to find it had oxidized.

Shaking the solution shouldn't oxidize it to any noticeable degree. I'm guessing your powder was on the way to being bad.
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Old 12-20-2017   #3
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No the powder was fine with a 5/2019 expiration date. I'll process a roll of TMY this afternoon and see how it goes.
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Old 12-20-2017   #4
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Just clip off a foot of film you've shot and run that rather than an entire roll.

Very odd. I've never experienced oxidation over night unless the powder was bad.

How dark was the liquid? As dark as tea or just straw color? My last packet of LPD mixed a little darker but was fine. I noticed the powder looked a touch darker but the mixed liquid wasn't anywhere as dark as tea.
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Old 12-20-2017   #5
BillBingham2
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Clean bottles with something different? Was there a lot of bubbles in the water this time? It sounds like something wasn't rinsed well.

But it's been years and I never had that problem. It should be said that I was lucky enough to use glass bottles for developer.

What changed? what was different.

B2 (;->
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Old 12-20-2017   #6
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Looks like diluted tea. I shot a roll of TMY by mistake at @100 a few months ago. I sort of wrote it off already so will use it as my test subject.
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Old 12-20-2017   #7
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Is it 35mm? I don't know what reels you are using. I was thinking of using a flash light on a small part (perhaps cut the film) to give you something black (at least on the negative) to see when it's souped.
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Old 12-20-2017   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
Clean bottles with something different? Was there a lot of bubbles in the water this time? It sounds like something wasn't rinsed well.

But it's been years and I never had that problem. It should be said that I was lucky enough to use glass bottles for developer.

What changed? what was different.

B2 (;->
I am thinking about this as well. I use plastic bottles made for photo chemicals and after use I always rinse them off. Fill up pour out, shake it a few times with the cap on, re-rinse. This time prior to pouring in the liquid I didn't re-rinse. But I have been using these bottles for ages with no issues. Glass bottles would be ideal.
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Old 12-20-2017   #9
Chriscrawfordphoto
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Ray, I'd just throw it away and mix some new. Its not going to be full-strength if its already discolored.

I don't know why you got the discolored liquid. Maybe the powder was bad, despite not being past expiry date. Maybe your mixing bucket or storage jug was not clean? Maybe the tap water was bad for some reason (I always use distilled for this).

Doesn't matter; the developer you have is not going to be good. Even if your test roll comes out ok, it won't have much shelf life, and I would not trust it.
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Old 12-20-2017   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
Ray, I'd just throw it away and mix some new. Its not going to be full-strength if its already discolored.

I don't know why you got the discolored liquid. Maybe the powder was bad, despite not being past expiry date. Maybe your mixing bucket or storage jug was not clean? Maybe the tap water was bad for some reason (I always use distilled for this).

Doesn't matter; the developer you have is not going to be good. Even if your test roll comes out ok, it won't have much shelf life, and I would not trust it.
Have to agree with Chris on this one. The pictures are worth more to me that a packet of developer. Even though I have to pay for them now.

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Old 12-20-2017   #11
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If you can find dark glass bottles. Another thing to think about is was it it exposed to bright light (sun light). I don't remember for sure, but I think that's why my father was stressed dark bottles.

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Old 12-20-2017   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
If you can find dark glass bottles. Another thing to think about is was it it exposed to bright light (sun light). I don't remember for sure, but I think that's why my father was stressed dark bottles.

B2 (;->
I have seen brown liter sized Grolsch bottles somewhere the type with the signature resealable top. Or should I just get the proper brown bottles from B&H?
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Old 12-20-2017   #13
Rayt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
Ray, I'd just throw it away and mix some new. Its not going to be full-strength if its already discolored.

I don't know why you got the discolored liquid. Maybe the powder was bad, despite not being past expiry date. Maybe your mixing bucket or storage jug was not clean? Maybe the tap water was bad for some reason (I always use distilled for this).

Doesn't matter; the developer you have is not going to be good. Even if your test roll comes out ok, it won't have much shelf life, and I would not trust it.
Thanks Chris. I'll throw it away. BTW your work has been an inspiration and I follow your tested development times to the letter.
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Old 12-20-2017   #14
Ronald M
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Kodak going bad? Buy a few chems, thermometer that reads to 125 and a scale and mix per instruction instead of making up procedures.

What you have is not trustworthy,
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Old 12-20-2017   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
Thanks Chris. I'll throw it away. BTW your work has been an inspiration and I follow your tested development times to the letter.

Awesome!
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Old 12-20-2017   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
I have seen brown liter sized Grolsch bottles somewhere the type with the signature resealable top. Or should I just get the proper brown bottles from B&H?
Mine were from the local independent pharmacy. That was back in the 70's, now I'm not sure where I'd look. I live near a university, perhaps the chem lab geeks, bars perhaps. I split my developer up into smaller bottles in the last few years I had my darkroom running. I filled them up to the top so there was less air (oxygen) at the top.

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Old 12-20-2017   #17
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Your procedure for mixing is not at all what I remember the developer package saying on it when I used D76. Follow the directions exactly and you will never have any problems, unless you just got a bad batch of developer. In any case, throw it out and start over w/ developer bought from another source. I strongly suggest following Kodak's instructions for mixing it. If you bring the mixing temp up to where it is supposed to be you won't have any residue at all.
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Old 12-20-2017   #18
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I use Ilford ID-11, same as D-76, but chemicals always clean of muck, debris!
Follow instructions with already warm water for 1st solution, don't heat to it.
Its a long time since I used D-76, ID-11 as always get liquid version.
Throw away! Even a test roll is x amount of images!
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Old 12-21-2017   #19
skopar steve
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As I recall the temperature for mixing is pretty high. Better to use a thermometer than the "feel" method. Also it requires a lot of stirring to get the powder fully dissolved. Shaking will add oxygen and shorten the life of the developer. I agree with Chris and use distilled water when mixing all of my chemicals.

Having said that, your method has worked for you in the past. Souping a gallon of D76 means you develop a good amount of film. So my guess is bad chemicals. I would mix my next batch "by the book" and if you get proper results stick with that method.

Glad you didn't wreck any film with that developer.
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Old 12-21-2017   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
...What I did differently last night was that I gave it a good shake like a martini shaken not stirred. Did shaking the 1.9L solution in the jug oxidized it some how? ...
Quite likely it did. Shaking usually increases the amount of dissolved air. The oxygen in the air will accelerate the oxidation of the developer. Bond may prefer his martinis shaken, not stirred, but with developers you need to stir as gently as possible.

Back in the day, my preferred method was to warn bottled water, or tap water that had be standing for at least 24 hours. When I needed to use fresh tap water, I would always heat it on the stove until it began to simmer. I would then let it cool to the 110-120deg F range before stirring in the powder. Bringing the water to a simmer will force out most of the oxygen that is dissolved in the water. Tap was, under pressure, will hold more oxygen than water that is standing unpressurized, though it takes time for the extra dissolved gas to bubble out.
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Old 12-21-2017   #21
BillBingham2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skopar steve View Post
...Better to use a thermometer than the "feel" method. ....
My thumb-ometer can still tell when it's 68 degrees out. Way too much time in the darkroom during the early years.

B2 (;->
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Old 12-21-2017   #22
sepiareverb
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I wouldn’t expect the shaking to spoil developer overnight. I have seen too many bad packs of Kodak chemistry to not suspect the packaging. Pinholes abound.
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Old 12-21-2017   #23
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Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
My thumb-ometer can still tell when it's 68 degrees out. Way too much time in the darkroom during the early years.

B2 (;->
I can count out a minute within a second from long practice shooting the view camera.
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Old 12-21-2017   #24
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Shaking won't dissolve dough O2 to cause any problem that quickly. Commercial chemical mixers used in commercial photo labs stir pretty vigerouy with no ill effects. Also mixing at lower temps won't cause a problem. It just makes it more difficult to get everything into solution. Higher temps are a bigger problem but still not an issue.

As far as distilled water, years ago my Kodak rep said not to use distilled water because Kodak compounded their chemicals for an average amount of impuraties like iron. Calcium and chlorine. Deionized water is another problem. Deionizing reduces the ph shightly which can cause problems especially with color chemistry.
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