Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Rangefinder Forum > Photography General Interest

Photography General Interest Neat Photo stuff NOT particularly about Rangefinders.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Your Camera Will Make You Popular?
Old 08-28-2017   #1
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
 
tunalegs's Avatar
 
tunalegs is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,584
Your Camera Will Make You Popular?

Online, it seems, that one's choice of camera can net them or their work a little "extra" attention. Using, for example, a Leica, Hasselblad, or a Holga (and making sure to mention it, putting it in your photos tags, etc.) seems to be a useful way to get more people to click on your images. So long as the camera has a cult following, there will be people looking for images made with that camera, and I can see a few photographers around who really trade heavily on their choice of popular-online camera.

Or does it? At first glance, it would seem like it does, and obviously there are people who think it does and constantly mention their Leica (or whatever) on their website, blog, etc. But then again, look through flickr and just about every camera imaginable has a group dedicated to it, and while obviously popular cameras have more groups, not all of those groups are particularly active.

So what do you think? How much attention can using a popular camera net you online?
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-28-2017   #2
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
 
Ronald_H's Avatar
 
Ronald_H is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Helmond, The Netherlands
Age: 48
Posts: 1,731
In my experience this draws lots of attention from gentlemen of a certain age:


My 1963 Leica M2 + DR Summicron and glasses
by Ronald Hogenboom, on Flickr

But boy, do the chicks dig this


'Pink, it's like red buit not quite'
by Ronald Hogenboom, on Flickr
__________________
"The only substitute for Tri-X is more Tri-X"

My Flickr

My regular website: www.lookupinwonder.nl
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-28-2017   #3
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
 
sevo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 6,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
Online, it seems, that one's choice of camera can net them or their work a little "extra" attention.
For a professional "blog photographer", exploiting a audience with a fetish certainly is advisable. "Use of a particular camera" is a pretty marginal fetish, though. Photographing genitalia, muscle cars, cats or old railroads seems to be far more promising, even more so if you combine that with goth, mod, punk or some other past musical subculture. If any, camera poserdom will advertise your determination (as in "nobody who is not serious about it would blow $22,000 on lenses to photograph a 'nude goth chick in muscle car'"), and give the audience a (lame) excuse to stare at milk glands ("aah, the bokeh").
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-28-2017   #4
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 20,020
Would you rather have people interested because of your camera or because of your photography? Ideally, I'd love the latter... but there are certainly people who look to see which camera someone is using before deciding if they like the photos. Photography is a weird thing. Some people seemingly only like to photograph to test and write about equipment. Some people exclusively love gear and lens attribute photos. Some people only love the art. Some people only use it to show what they own or how cool they are. Some people only care about family photos. It can be many things to many people.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-28-2017   #5
Axel
Registered User
 
Axel's Avatar
 
Axel is online now
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Germany, north
Posts: 637
Hope it does not. When I am on public places or events my cameras are strictly taped.
First because no company spents only one cent to me if I walk around with presenting
their brand. Second to express that the camera really doesn´t matter.

And I think that a too heavily presented EXIF data is able to spoil the clear look at
pictures in a gallery.

People should show what they have and pose with cars, cameras, girls, money -
whatever they want. But I like to make a clear cut at that point when it comes
to what they do with all this stuff.
__________________
my photos here
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-28-2017   #6
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,529
Sure it does, on Flickr 100%, where are plenty of gearheads on Flickr. But where are some very talented photogs who knows how to take it with something not as fancy as Leica or FujiNoFilm.

Saying this, I specifically prefer rangefinder taken images. Majority of photography books I have are with images taken with Leica. And only on-line blog I care to look at is Leica Blog. It is not because it is Leica. It is because rangefinder allows to catch life differently. I could see it. And I could catch it too, sometimes, if with rangefinder.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #7
seany65
Registered User
 
seany65 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,094
I have sometimes googled "photos taken with X camera" as a way of trying to find out what quality of images a camera can produce, taking into account the style of the photographer. This way it's possible to see if a camera produces vignetted images or ones that aren't quite in focus etc. This is mostly useful with cheapish old cameras such as the gevaert gevabox.
  Reply With Quote

Why should the film camera matter?
Old 08-29-2017   #8
Robert Lai
Registered User
 
Robert Lai is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,637
Why should the film camera matter?

Having grown up in the film era, and still using film, my attitude has been that the camera is a box to keep the film and lens in the proper alignment. Unless the camera is malfunctioning (e.g. tapering shutter, light leak, diaphragm stuck on an SLR, rangefinder is off), then the camera should exert NO influence on the final image. It's all about the lens and the film (sensor). I understand that the sensor and algorithms of different digital cameras will impact upon the final image, but in film land, the camera is still a box.

Unless I recognize the signature of a specific lens, or I made notes for each frame of a camera I'm testing, I won't know which camera took which picture.

Getting back to the original question, if you need some object to make you popular, you probably aren't popular at all. It's a sad crutch I see now, as middle age men fit their fat bodies into their Corvettes, or Porche 911s. Same as some sad, lonely soul trying to be cool with Leica M3.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #9
css9450
Registered User
 
css9450's Avatar
 
css9450 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,979
I'd rather have a camera that makes me unpopular.
__________________
Nikon S2, S3, F, F2, F3, FM2, FA, N90S, D80, D7000, D750, Sony a6000, Canon IIf, Leica CL, Tower type 3, Zorki 4, Vito B, Perkeo II, Rollei 35....
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #10
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
 
nikon_sam's Avatar
 
nikon_sam is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Age: 59
Posts: 4,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
I have sometimes googled "photos taken with X camera" as a way of trying to find out what quality of images a camera can produce, taking into account the style of the photographer. This way it's possible to see if a camera produces vignetted images or ones that aren't quite in focus etc. This is mostly useful with cheapish old cameras such as the gevaert gevabox.
I do the same thing...if interested in a camera or lens...
Other than that I don't care what you used if I like the image...
And I've been having a blast with a Canon ELPH100 HS...not your BIG name pro camera but small, fun to use and decent results...
__________________
Sam
"tongue tied & twisted
just an earthbound misfit...I..."
pf
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #11
back alley
IMAGES
 
back alley's Avatar
 
back alley is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: true north strong & free
Posts: 49,191
i'm unpopular enough as it is...if a camera helps me be popular than i'd go for it...
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #12
eric rose
ummmmm, filmmmm
 
eric rose's Avatar
 
eric rose is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 164


This is the ONLY stud camera ever made. Period.
__________________
_____________________
Eric Rose

http://www.ericrose.com

http://yourbaddog.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #13
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by css9450 View Post
I'd rather have a camera that makes me unpopular.

Here you go


https://www.amazon.com/Accoutrements.../dp/B001E1UOPA
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #14
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
I very rarely put data with my photos because it doesn't matter what I shot with. If for some reason I do put data I might give incorrect data. Again because it makes no difference what was used. IMO the only important thing is the image.

I'd be curious as to how many clicks your best few images have in the RFF gallery. Did you give camera and lens data? For those that did do you think your audience cares what it was shot with or is it excellent content that attracted them?

Edit:

I looked back at my gallery images and have quite a good number of images with views from 1200 up to nearly 27,000. The ones with the highest number of views have no technical data. Hopefully people view them because of content. I'd be very disappointed if it were due to camera data.

How about your photos? Data or content?
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #15
johnf04
Registered User
 
johnf04 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Age: 69
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric rose View Post


This is the ONLY stud camera ever made. Period.
I'd be interested to see its offspring, then. How often do you mate it?
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #16
phrons
Registered User
 
phrons is offline
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 61
It depends on what circle you run with.

I used to be completely lusting over a leica. I found a good deal for a Nikon S2, and that didn't cure it.

120 cured that lust though. I'd much rather spend the equivalent money on a medium format system.

There are also a ton of great 120 rangefinders, my preferred style of shooting. Folders are affordable, and then there are the Fuji's, those things are huge, obnoxious, and don't scream refinement but sure can take a great photo.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #17
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMcCoy View Post
The truth of the matter is that Leicas are a dime a dozen and essentially all the same no matter what "edition" you have.

/rant

Hello Kitty Leica by desmolicious, on Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #18
anindyo
Registered User
 
anindyo is offline
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
Same as some sad, lonely soul trying to be cool with Leica M3.
Sounds good, doesn't work. As lonely soul trying to be cool with Leica M2, I can confirm. But at least shooting with M2 give better feeling.

Btw, I think showing certain brand of camera can help building identity and make someone belong to certain group and get some audience. Plus adding keywords and hashtags to gain more likes.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #19
css9450
Registered User
 
css9450's Avatar
 
css9450 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMcCoy View Post
The truth of the matter is that Leicas are a dime a dozen and essentially all the same no matter what "edition" you have.
You're still a nobody until you buy the Leica slide projector, the Leica enlarger, the Leica processing trays and the Leica print tongs.
__________________
Nikon S2, S3, F, F2, F3, FM2, FA, N90S, D80, D7000, D750, Sony a6000, Canon IIf, Leica CL, Tower type 3, Zorki 4, Vito B, Perkeo II, Rollei 35....
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #20
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by css9450 View Post
You're still a nobody until you buy the Leica slide projector, the Leica enlarger, the Leica processing trays and the Leica print tongs.
Do they come with red dots?
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #21
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,323
Other camera geeks might notice your Leica or Blad. However, one of the nice things about carrying my Linhof and shooting handheld candid-ish portraits is people ask ME to take their picture, rather than me having to ask them and then getting all kinds of questions about why and who I am shooting for, etc. So it's a nice ice-breaker. But that's not online attention so I guess that's not what you really mean .
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #22
Rayt
Registered User
 
Rayt's Avatar
 
Rayt is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,909
When I travel with 4x5 I become too popular for comfort. Young ladies grab me by the arm for selfies. Old men mob me for a peek under the dark cloth. Not kidding at all.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #23
peterm1
Registered User
 
peterm1's Avatar
 
peterm1 is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
When I travel with 4x5 I become too popular for comfort. Young ladies grab me by the arm for selfies. Old men mob me for a peek under the dark cloth. Not kidding at all.
I agree about the way young women seem to be intrigued by photographers - especially ones who carry Leica cameras. Or other old cameras - especially film cameras. I am not kidding either - they often do not know what the cameras are but they know they look "retro" and often ask about them. They regularly stop to ask questions and make conversation. It seems that film photography is cool right now.

Why did this not happen to me when I was twenty something? I figure it is because now I look harmless. Little do they know.........hahaha.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2017   #24
Rayt
Registered User
 
Rayt's Avatar
 
Rayt is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,909
My primary travel camera is a Rolleiflex TLR and it gets a lot of attention and comments everywhere in the world. The most annoying question is: Do they still make film?!? I like talking to people during my travels so it is a good opportunity to chat up the locals. I don't get much attention with the M6 but the Rollei, Hasselblad and 4x5 get lots of attention.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #25
citizen99
Registered User
 
citizen99's Avatar
 
citizen99 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bristol, England
Posts: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I love the irony
BTW I followed the link to Flickr but it's 'Private' .
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #26
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
 
nukecoke's Avatar
 
nukecoke is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Sweden/China
Posts: 1,014


I'm the "one with odd cameras" in the institute I work for.

Currently shooting this Nicca 3-F
__________________
tumblr

flickr(abandoned)

About Film Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #27
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 70
Posts: 5,984
For me it's all about the image, the photo, the content...

Looking back at my archive very oft the best photos are not the ones made with the "supposed" best camera...

robert
PS: for best I intend the photos which give me more emotion...and I'm not sure if there is a "best camera"...
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #28
oftheherd
Registered User
 
oftheherd's Avatar
 
oftheherd is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,924
I guess first. I am too old for girls to be interested and use my camera as their intro.

2nd, My two 35mm cameras of choice for about 10 years were certainly not cameras that were known well amongst camera users, never mind those who weren't camera users.

I used a Yashica TL Super and a Fujica ST 901, and several Fujinon and Vivitar Lenses. I never had a chance to go around and do serious lens tests, nor did I particularly want to. As to the cameras, they just seemed to fit my hands and photo style. I liked the photos I took if on one else did.

For any of you who have a camera that gets you noticed, and especially if you are a pro and it gets you more business, Good on ya! Just not a worry for me.
__________________
My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #29
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by oftheherd View Post
For any of you who have a camera that gets you noticed, and especially if you are a pro and it gets you more business, Good on ya! Just not a worry for me.
I have never had a client or potential client ask what I shoot with or even care which is the way it should be.

Interesting how some people define themselves by their toy. It unfortunately doesn't come as a surprise. Sad! I'd rather be known for my images than my camera. Anyway anyone can buy a Leica, Nikon etc but not many can make photos that are remembered.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #30
PKR
Registered User
 
PKR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
I have never had a client or potential client ask what I shoot with or even care which is the way it should be.

Interesting how some people define themselves by their toy. It unfortunately doesn't come as a surprise. Sad! I'd rather be known for my images than my camera. Anyway anyone can buy a Leica, Nikon etc but not many can make photos that are remembered.
Yep, on the camera stuff. I just call them "the camera people". Some are interested in photographs (photography) other than pictures of their cameras. But, they are a small percent.

I can't remember who told me this , or where I read it (LF Forum?) but, a guy was out with his 8x10 doing some commissioned work and some young kids walking home from school stopped to ask about the thing on the tripod. He positioned his camera case so they could stand on it and look into the back of the camera. They were all very excited, with one kid saying, it was the biggest LCD he had ever seen on a camera.

The people on RFF who are seriously interested in photography are so few, I'm getting to know who they are. Thankfully, some of the mods are serious photographers.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #31
Deklari
Registered User
 
Deklari's Avatar
 
Deklari is offline
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
Anyway anyone can buy a Leica, Nikon etc but not many can make photos that are remembered.
Not sure about this :-) Anyone, better spend this money for something else
I buy my first Leica after almost 30 years of stat using a film camera and still some of my friends thing I really crazy

About camera,.. Yes camera can make anyone more popular, but not better photographer :-)
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #32
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,431
Being a film photographer makes me unpopular with Leica galleries and Leica magazines because they want to promote their digital products.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #33
PKR
Registered User
 
PKR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by giganova View Post
Being a film photographer makes me unpopular with Leica galleries and Leica magazines because they want to promote their digital products.
Yeah, that's too bad. Marketing people own those spaces.

I've always wondered why, if those who feel digital imagery is so superior to film imagery, they spend so much time trying to make their digital work look like it came out of a film camera? Why the "film simulation" options in camera modes?

Digital cameras can do many things a film camera can't. No argument from me. I use both. Digital work when printed, looks far different from film stuff.. at least mine does. They both have "their look". What's the big deal?

If your work is good, regardless of the media, it will find an audience.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #34
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 20,020
It's funny, but in NYC I have had women talk to me because I was using a Leica and/or Fuji. I see it with my friends that use Rolleiflexes the most though. Old men mistake my X100 for a Leica a lot. Old men also mistook my M9 for a film Leica camera a lot. I'd show them the screen and they'd be shocked. In Chile, no one cares about any of my cameras as a vanity object.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #35
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
Reminds me of the kid in high school that was a total loser and got the hottest car in the school thinking it would get him a date.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #36
PKR
Registered User
 
PKR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
It's funny, but in NYC I have had women talk to me because I was using a Leica and/or Fuji. I see it with my friends that use Rolleiflexes the most though. Old men mistake my X100 for a Leica a lot. Old men also mistook my M9 for a film Leica camera a lot. I'd show them the screen and they'd be shocked. In Chile, no one cares about any of my cameras as a vanity object.
I think much of this stuff is societal. Leicas and big lens DSLRs are seen as status symbols in some cultures. Others, maybe less material and more "art" bent, ignore the hardware, unless they want to steal it. When in Europe, no one paid any interest in my hardware. In the US it's common, especially now, if film cameras are recognized as being what they are.

Imagine working in public with a crew and lighting. People think you're shooting an episode of the Thorne thing. Local cops have to be hired (often required) at $70/hr to keep the public at bay. I think photography in some places, because of social media, has become more popular than MLB.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #37
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,323
The Rolleiflex goes in the bin with the Leica and Blad for me. The only people who care or bother me when I have the Rollei or Leica are camera geeks. I dislike getting harangued by those types because it's gear chat. When I get random strangers asking about the cool old vintage camera, that's a bit more fun to educate and show to people IMO. And they often ask for my card / website, and occasionally I get sales that way. The camera geeks want to talk about what generic digital they have or have you heard about LOMO? Blah blah blah.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #38
back alley
IMAGES
 
back alley's Avatar
 
back alley is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: true north strong & free
Posts: 49,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
Yeah, that's too bad. Marketing people own those spaces.

I've always wondered why, if those who feel digital imagery is so superior to film imagery, they spend so much time trying to make their digital work look like it came out of a film camera? Why the "film simulation" options in camera modes?

Digital cameras can do many things a film camera can't. No argument from me. I use both. Digital work when printed, looks far different from film stuff.. at least mine does. They both have "their look". What's the big deal?

If your work is good, regardless of the media, it will find an audience.
i see the film simulations as a substitute for the ability to change films for a different look.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #39
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 20,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
I think much of this stuff is societal. Leicas and big lens DSLRs are seen as status symbols in some cultures. Others, maybe less material and more "art" bent, ignore the hardware, unless they want to steal it.
Yeah, true... in Santiago, the big lenses simply mean very expensive. Makes you a nice target since you never see them on the street. However, in the landscape, its safe to use this gear.

Quote:
When in Europe, no one paid any interest in my hardware.
I was in France about 12 years ago or so and I was using a crappy Panasonic P&S. Someone came up to me and asked if it was the new Panasonic blah, blah, blah... you just reminded me of this, but I was shocked at the time.

Quote:
In the US it's common, especially now, if film cameras are recognized as being what they are.
Yep...especially in the big cities.

Quote:
Imagine working in public with a crew and lighting. People think you're shooting an episode of the Thorne thing. Local cops have to be hired (often required) at $70/hr to keep the public at bay. I think photography in some places, because of social media, has become more popular than MLB.
Too funny. In NYC we were/are accustomed to seeing TV shows and movies being shot on the street, but the tourists aren't...
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-30-2017   #40
PKR
Registered User
 
PKR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,489
I haven't visited Montréal, but know a large amount of American film production has moved, in part, to Canada. There is a huge (maybe the best SOTA) soundstage with on site crew in Vancouver. This has happened because of unions, production costs, and local filming restrictions that aren't an issue in Canada (chime in Joe).

I think Robert De Niro has a home in Montréal and maybe production interests in Canada?

People living in those areas likely see a lot of high end film production. I think Game of Thrones is filmed in Iceland. I'll bet production costs, as a long term project, are a fraction of what they would be here. I think the location scenery is the prime reason for Iceland, but, costs are surely an important item.

I wonder if those productions see the social media phone snappers we see on the productions here. If there is a crowd, it's likely made up of American tourists.

OT: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...beandmail.com&
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:10.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.