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Kiev/Contax RF to Soviet LTM adapter ?
Old 12-01-2019   #1
RedTurian
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Question Kiev/Contax RF to Soviet LTM adapter ?

Hello,

My second thread here ! So far a great experience

So, as some of you may cough cough be aware of, I have a Droog, which is a Soviet LTM camera. But I also have a Kiev 4A and a Kiev 2 with two J-8 and a J-12, and am about to recieve a Kiev 5, and I saw there are some cheap K/CRF to LTM adapters on eBay at the moment

( like this one : https://www.ebay.fr/itm/FOTOFOX-RF-L...MAAOSwfBlcP8og )

but I wondered if it would work since :
1 - The description states that it only works with internal 50mm lenses (which does not make any sense in my head since the external lenses also uses the internal mechanism for coupling with the rangefinder, right ?)
2 - I read somewhere that Leica LTM and Soviet LTM have a different uh... calibration ? Standard focal lenght displacement ? I don't know how to put this, but it is apparently of 51,6mm for Leica LTM and 52,3mm for Soviet LTM (which is the Carl Zeiss standard apparently), and that would cause the rangefinder coupling to be biased...
By the way, sorry about my lack of confidence concerning this topic, I have to admit that my comprehension of the rangefinder mechanics is quite limited.

And sorry if some of my sentences barely make any sense, as you may have noticed, English is not my native language

PS : it would be real great if I could use my K/CRF lenses on my LTM body (soon to be "bodies" )

Thanks in advance for your answers.
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Old 12-01-2019   #2
t6un
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My guess is that the threads in the focusing helix may have a different angle compared to what is a standard for Contax an Kiev. As all internal bayonet lenses are 50mm ones, they work because they are supposed to move together with the rangefinder cam. External bayonet lenses need the precise amount of axial movement of inner bayonet relative to its rotation. One hint that this is not the case is the lack of distance scale on the adapter.
The calibration difference between Leica and Contax/FSU is real but its effect is somewhat subjective: for me 85mm lens is asking for trouble, 35 is no problem and 50mm is ok, considering my lenses have focus shift and the rangefinders are out of whack anyway
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Old 12-01-2019   #3
valdas
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What about those? It seems it uses the original Kiev mount which is transformed to an adapter. I never tried myself, but thinking of buying one for Fuji X ( they have thise for various mounts).


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Contax-RF...AAAOSwTM5Yvoia
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Old 12-01-2019   #4
RedTurian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t6un View Post
My guess is that the threads in the focusing helix may have a different angle compared to what is a standard for Contax an Kiev. As all internal bayonet lenses are 50mm ones, they work because they are supposed to move together with the rangefinder cam. External bayonet lenses need the precise amount of axial movement of inner bayonet relative to its rotation. One hint that this is not the case is the lack of distance scale on the adapter.
The calibration difference between Leica and Contax/FSU is real but its effect is somewhat subjective: for me 85mm lens is asking for trouble, 35 is no problem and 50mm is ok, considering my lenses have focus shift and the rangefinders are out of whack anyway
Okay I think I got it... So, yeah, basically it won't work... A shame !

Ahaha I see what you're talking about. Though it would not really apply in my case since I meticulously calibrated my rangefinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
What about those? It seems it uses the original Kiev mount which is transformed to an adapter. I never tried myself, but thinking of buying one for Fuji X ( they have thise for various mounts).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Contax-RF...AAAOSwTM5Yvoia
Yeah the thing is, I'm looking for an adapter with rangefinder coupling, what this particular one does not have, and the only serious ones that does have it are $300, so totally unaffordable to me. But for mounting on a MILC, the adapter you linked might just do the trick
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Old 12-01-2019   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTurian View Post
Yeah the thing is, I'm looking for an adapter with rangefinder coupling, what this particular one does not have, and the only serious ones that does have it are $300, so totally unaffordable to me. But for mounting on a MILC, the adapter you linked might just do the trick
Ah, right. Probably J8/12 combined (in LTM) would cost less than an adapter...
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Old 12-01-2019   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
Ah, right. Probably J8/12 combined (in LTM) would cost less than an adapter...
Indeed, sadly, and this even though the J-12 for LTM costs substantially more than the one for K/CRF.
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Old 12-01-2019   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTurian View Post
Indeed, sadly, and this even though the J-12 for LTM costs substantially more than the one for K/CRF.
Somewhat more expensive, yes, maybe even double, but still - not a fortune.
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Old 12-01-2019   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
Somewhat more expensive, yes, maybe even double, but still - not a fortune.
Sure, but after, that applies more... relatively to the J-9 for instance (and I'm not even talking about the J-3)... Anyway, there's no much debate since it won't work apparently. Quite a disappointment I must admit !
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Old 12-01-2019   #9
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It will be a nice adapter for under a 100 bucks just to use the fabulous Helios 103 lens on LTM cameras or even on M mount cameras.

Might have to give the Heilos 103 lens a 180 degree turn out to the lens element block to get perfect focus on the Leica standard lens flange to film plane at f1.8 according to lens hacker pro Brian Sweeney.
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Old 12-03-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
It will be a nice adapter for under a 100 bucks just to use the fabulous Helios 103 lens on LTM cameras or even on M mount cameras.

Might have to give the Heilos 103 lens a 180 degree turn out to the lens element block to get perfect focus on the Leica standard lens flange to film plane at f1.8 according to lens hacker pro Brian Sweeney.
Well that's... unsettling, rather. I don't know how this could make sense optically or mechanically speaking but why not ? Though I don't think it is needed if you plan to mount the lens+adapter on a non-soviet LTM (or M) body since the adapter is manufactured to fit those Leica standards, which it does not for the Soviet LTM bodies, because of both the mount and the rangefinder coupling mechanism of the lenses are slightly different between both countries.... Maybe that's what you were referring to ?

Last edited by RedTurian : 12-03-2019 at 03:35. Reason: unclear
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Old 12-03-2019   #11
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What I am referring to is using that adapter that you showed being sold on Ebay with the Helios 103 lens on a non FSU camera that has the Leica standard lens flange to film plane distance. I was thinking of a way to use the Helios 103 lens on my LTM Canons without hacking that lens in a LTM Jupiter 8 focusing mount... if that is even possible, probably not due to different dimensions.

Brian Sweeney had used the Helios 103 lens on his Nikon SP very effectively , a camera that does not need this Ebay adapter to mount Kiev RF bayonet mount lenses but since the Nikon SP still has a Leica standard lens flange to film plane distance, any FSU lens in Kiev RF mount longer than 35mm needs to be adjusted to work properly.

Any FSU lens of that type longer than 85mm in that Kiev RF mount would probably still not focus properly on that Nikon SP, even with adjustment.
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Old 12-04-2019   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
What I am referring to is using that adapter that you showed being sold on Ebay with the Helios 103 lens on a non FSU camera that has the Leica standard lens flange to film plane distance. I was thinking of a way to use the Helios 103 lens on my LTM Canons without hacking that lens in a LTM Jupiter 8 focusing mount... if that is even possible, probably not due to different dimensions.

Brian Sweeney had used the Helios 103 lens on his Nikon SP very effectively , a camera that does not need this Ebay adapter to mount Kiev RF bayonet mount lenses but since the Nikon SP still has a Leica standard lens flange to film plane distance, any FSU lens in Kiev RF mount longer than 35mm needs to be adjusted to work properly.

Any FSU lens of that type longer than 85mm in that Kiev RF mount would probably still not focus properly on that Nikon SP, even with adjustment.
Wierd, the Nikon SP is in K/CRF mount so it has Carl Zeiss Contax's flange distance, which the Kiev does as well so I see no reason why it would need any adjustment whatsoever. And as I previously stated, the eBay adapter I linked works perfectly for any non-FSU LTM camera, such as your Canon, without needing any adjustment ; the problem I was referring to only affects FSU LTM cameras... Sorry if I was unclear, since apparently you understood the exact opposite of what I was trying to say
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Old 12-04-2019   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTurian View Post
Wierd, the Nikon SP is in K/CRF mount so it has Carl Zeiss Contax's flange distance, which the Kiev does as well so I see no reason why it would need any adjustment whatsoever. And as I previously stated, the eBay adapter I linked works perfectly for any non-FSU LTM camera, such as your Canon, without needing any adjustment ; the problem I was referring to only affects FSU LTM cameras... Sorry if I was unclear, since apparently you understood the exact opposite of what I was trying to say
The Nikon SP Does NOT have a Carl Zeiss Contax flange distance.. but a Leica flange distance.
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Old 12-04-2019   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
The Nikon SP Does NOT have a Carl Zeiss Contax flange distance.. but a Leica flange distance.
WhUt ? Really ? Okay I learnt something today so I guess earlier versions had Contax Flange distance and Nikon changed it to Leica because why not ? Hm wierd okay, I'm really surprised... So that explains the lens-tweaking thing, riiight. Okay.
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Old 12-04-2019   #15
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Originally Posted by RedTurian View Post
WhUt ? Really ? Okay I learnt something today so I guess earlier versions had Contax Flange distance and Nikon changed it to Leica because why not ? Hm wierd okay, I'm really surprised... So that explains the lens-tweaking thing, riiight. Okay.
Nikon RF cameras always had the Leica standard flange distance from day one with the 1948 Nikon I. They used the Contax RF bayonet mount (internal & external) on their cameras but the focus helical was different.

Remember, Nippon Kogaku made lenses for Leica type cameras before they made their first 35mm camera , so they naturally kept the same flange distance despite using a bayonet lens mount based on the Zeiss Contax RF camera on their new line of RF cameras.
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