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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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Smallest/lightest setup with fast 50mm (equiv)?
Old 07-15-2019   #1
analogpics
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Smallest/lightest setup with fast 50mm (equiv)?

Hey friends, i've been taking long walks daily for the past few weeks and always come across some very stylish people in my neighborhood. I don't want to become the sartorialist or anything, but wanted something light and small enough that i could carry it everyday for quick street portraits. Still something that will give shallow DOF. Right now i have the fuji xe3 with the 35 1.4 lens, but just wanted to throw it out there to see if theres something even smaller/lighter...almost like my folding kodak retina iiic with the 50mm f2, except autofocus and digital lol. Thank you!
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Old 07-15-2019   #2
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Congratulations, the answer is "no"!

You've got the best outfit already. Maybe get the 33mm f/1.0 once it comes out?
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Old 07-15-2019   #3
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I agree it’s hard to beat the X-E3...
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Old 07-16-2019   #4
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M9 with a 50mm Sonnar c f1.5 zeiss. That would be probably the only setup that would be marginally smaller. Would be heavier though. And manual focus.
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Old 07-16-2019   #5
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M9 is both wider and taller.

If you want something smaller with a beautiful lens, the X100F with the 23mm f2 takes some beating. Having a fixed lens 23mm f2 makes it ultra compact. The 35mm f1.4 is a lot bigger even on the X-E3. You lose lens interchangeability, but it doesn't sound like that's your thing. I have the 27mm pancake f2.8 and that is tiny - I think it gives a shallow enough depth of field, but your mileage may vary.
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Old 07-16-2019   #6
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I've tried all of the above. Maybe a bit larger but the Leica M 262 with the above mentioned Zeiss C Sonnar 50/1.5 takes the cake for me.
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Old 07-16-2019   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analogpics View Post
jJust wanted to throw it out there to see if theres something even smaller/lighter...almost like my folding kodak retina iiic with the 50mm f2, except autofocus and digital lol. Thank you!
I can't help you very much weight wise - but the earlier Kodak Retina II and the wonderful IIa are definitely less bulky than Retina IIIc. My older than dirt Leica II mated to a collapsible Summicron is also more svelte than any of the Retina III series.
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Old 07-16-2019   #8
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I am a fan of the, by now old, Sony NEX5 line ( those which take the optional EVF, the 5N/5R/5T ) and a main reason is it's compactness.
However I don't know which fast 35mm AF lens would be small, most made by Sony are relatively bulky.
If it was a manual lens, my NEX5N with a Canon LTM f1.8/35mm or f2/35mm is very small


Canon LTM f1.8/35mm on Sony NEX5n
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Old 07-16-2019   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinlg View Post
M9 with a 50mm Sonnar c f1.5 zeiss. That would be probably the only setup that would be marginally smaller. Would be heavier though. And manual focus.
Can`t see how that is smaller...and then that horrible focus shift of the Sonnar? OP, stick with what you have. It really is the best option. I use the 35mm F2 for even more compactness.
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Old 07-16-2019   #10
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Panasonic GM1 with 20mm 1.7 or 25mm 1.4 is pretty small. Your current kit is better for IQ and shallow DOF though.

The absolute smallest aps-c that's completely unusable? Sony's QX1
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Old 07-16-2019   #11
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Actually, the smallest and lightest digital with a fast 50mm equivalent, that I know of, is my Leica/Panasonic D-Lux 6. it is a zoom with f/1.4.
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Old 07-16-2019   #12
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Pentax Q with the 01 Prime lens is a 47mm equivalent. The lens if f1.9.



Attached is a Q-S1 (bigger sensor) along with the 01 prime, the 23-70 equivalent zoom and the 70-209mm equivalent f2.8 zoom along with a M240 for comparison.

Be sure to check out the flickr group before dismissing it....

https://www.flickr.com/groups/pentax-q/pool/

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Old 07-16-2019   #13
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Continuing with the Retina theme, the Ia is the smallest and lightest "real" 35mm camera you can find, and even the bottom end 50 3.5 Xenar blows away most anything made today w/ it's excellent image quality. I know, I bought one after researching these things until my eyeballs nearly fell out. My !a is the perfect camera to carry around because it's so small and light. Zone focus, but that's quicker than a RF patch once you get good at it.

Retina Ia w/ 50 Ektar lens



Your phone is also a possibility. Mine loves contrasty light



A Konica C 35 gives you nearly everything you want including AE w/ AE lock, but they don't hold up long due to cheap construction. Excellent lenses.
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Old 07-16-2019   #14
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My choice would be my Leica CL + Summilux 35mm f/1.4 (v2 circa 1972): Not only small and light, but some of the most beautiful rendering qualities ever.

Or, switch the lens to my Pentax-L 43mm f/1.9 Special on the same camera ... Another stunning performer with a little more reach, and a more modern rendering style.


Leica CL + Pentax-L 43mm f/1.9 Limited
ISO 1000 @ f/2.8 @ 1/60

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Old 07-16-2019   #15
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Wow thanks for all the great suggestions guys! So just a bit more background, i have been toting my tiny ricoh gr ii basically everyday for the past several weeks...but to be honest i'm not much of a 28mm guy...my sweet spot is 35-50 and for portraits 50 is my go to. I did previously own an older x100 series camera which was amazing (still considering an x100f despite already having an xe3), though i won't necessarily get the shallow DOF i'm looking for.
I currently do have a leica m9 with the collapsible 50mm summicron which is what i was contemplating toting instead....though it is a bit on the heavier side. I previously also had a sony a6000 with the 35mm lens but for whatever reason, i can't get the "look" i want from sony sensors no matter how much i tweak them (have the a7riii currently).
Also considered a canon m50 with the 32mm 1.4...i actually have better luck with canon raw files over fuji, though i do prefer fuji for bw.
Forgot to add, i have contemplated the leica CL! I always love the files i get from my m9 and testing out the m10.
I have also looked at the adorable pentax Q for its diminutive size though because of the smaller sensor, don't know if i'd be able to get very shallow DOF...but if i find one cheap enough, i may still snag it just for fun
Panasonic GM1 was another one i looked into, i haven't tried any m43 bodies yet, but i know they do make some really super fast lenses for them so it's another option...

Last edited by analogpics : 07-16-2019 at 07:01. Reason: adding more that i forgot about
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Old 07-16-2019   #16
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7artisans 35/1.2 is a wonderful, cheap and small lens, I've used it on X-T1 as my only lens, sold the kit some time ago but I still have the NDx8 filter for it.
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Old 07-16-2019   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbielikowski View Post
7artisans 35/1.2 is a wonderful, cheap and small lens, I've used it on X-T1 as my only lens, sold the kit some time ago but I still have the NDx8 filter for it.
Wow, i totally forgot about this lens May be a good idea to look into it, and its for both fuji and canon so...win either way thanks!
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Old 07-16-2019   #18
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Originally Posted by analogpics View Post
I have also looked at the adorable pentax Q for its diminutive size though because of the smaller sensor, don't know if i'd be able to get very shallow DOF...but if i find one cheap enough, i may still snag it just for fun
The Q is crazy fun. The dial on the front can be set for a bunch of different looks to quickly swap between them. And if you play to its strength it is quite capable. Awesome for telephoto or macro. You won't get very limited DOF with the 01 prime (unless you are close up) but if you can retrain your brain for telephoto is is easy to limit DOF. C mount lenses work well on it, are tiny, have IBIS, and there are many fast ones available for little money. I think this is with a C mount 50mm lens.

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Old 07-16-2019   #19
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Wow thanks for all the great suggestions guys! So just a bit more background, i have been toting my tiny ricoh gr ii basically everyday for the past several weeks...but to be honest i'm not much of a 28mm guy...my sweet spot is 35-50 and for portraits 50 is my go to. I did previously own an older x100 series camera which was amazing (still considering an x100f despite already having an xe3), though i won't necessarily get the shallow DOF i'm looking for.
I currently do have a leica m9 with the collapsible 50mm summicron which is what i was contemplating toting instead....though it is a bit on the heavier side. I previously also had a sony a6000 with the 35mm lens but for whatever reason, i can't get the "look" i want from sony sensors no matter how much i tweak them (have the a7riii currently).
Also considered a canon m50 with the 32mm 1.4...i actually have better luck with canon raw files over fuji, though i do prefer fuji for bw.
Forgot to add, i have contemplated the leica CL! I always love the files i get from my m9 and testing out the m10.
I have also looked at the adorable pentax Q for its diminutive size though because of the smaller sensor, don't know if i'd be able to get very shallow DOF...but if i find one cheap enough, i may still snag it just for fun
Panasonic GM1 was another one i looked into, i haven't tried any m43 bodies yet, but i know they do make some really super fast lenses for them so it's another option...
For best control of depth of field on FourThirds format, you need the very fast lenses. The Voigtländer f/0.95 series is great for this, but they are all manual focus, if that matters to you, and are somewhat bulky. I shot with FourThirds (first the SLRs, then the micro EVF cameras) for years and got many many excellent photographs with them. Still have a couple of bodies and lenses...

However, I've come to really like APS-C and FF formats more ... more DoF control with slower lenses. The Leica CL sensor is outstanding: only about 1 stop shy of the FF Leica SL/M10 sensors in terms of noise, very malleable and easy to process raw files, etc, and with APS-C you can get good focus zone control even with a small/light 28mm f/2.8 lens. The Leitz Summicron-C 40mm f/2 from the original film Leica CL camera would be another outstanding choice on this camera for your stated interests, and it's a teensy little lens (also fairly inexpensive).

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Old 07-16-2019   #20
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I've got a friend who uses the Nikon 1 J5 and 18.5/1.8 (50mm equivalent) to great results. Small and very responsive.
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Old 07-16-2019   #21
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How about a Panasonic LX100 (either version)? It's got a fast 24-75mm lens that can be set to default to the last used zoom setting. Or the even smaller LX10, which has the same feature.
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Old 07-17-2019   #22
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So i took my Leica M9 with the collapsible 50mm summicron yesterday. Not a bad little combo, though for candid stuff, i'm not quite as quick as i am with the ricoh gr (obviously lol). Today i'm kinda leaning to my fuji xe3 with the 35 f2 (smaller/lighter, better af than my 35 1.4). I'm still curious about the Leica CL, though it may be some time before i can afford that one

I did look at the Nikon mirrorless but noticed they still only have a 1" sensor.

I also checked out the Panasonic LX100 before i ended up getting a Canon G1x mk iii. Even at the 75mm end, i wasn't able to get the DOF i was looking for unfortunately (great travel camera though).
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Old 07-17-2019   #23
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X-E3 and 35mm F2. Take this from a likeminded someone who has tried many of the other options listed in this thread. It does what you want while being small, fast, high quality, and cheap. It’s a super underrated combo.
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Old 07-17-2019   #24
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Yeah, seems like your existing kit is pretty much in the sweet spot.

That said, I don't think the Sony RX1Rii has been mentioned yet. It's slightly wider and taller, but might its lens might not extend as far from the body as your 35/1.4. The RX1Rii has a full-frame (fixed) 35/2 lens, but I think it has a digital crop, with plenty of resolution for cropping to 50mm equivalent.

My friend has this camera. The images he gets are top notch and the IQ from that 35/2 Sony Zeiss Sonnar is excellent.
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Old 07-17-2019   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
X-E3 and 35mm F2. Take this from a likeminded someone who has tried many of the other options listed in this thread. It does what you want while being small, fast, high quality, and cheap. It’s a super underrated combo.
I'm trying to find one to take with me to Germany next week. There are ten used 35mm f1.4s at my favourite dealer Wex, but no f2s. I think that says a lot!
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Old 07-17-2019   #26
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The 35 f2 is a good lens, but the 1.4 is magical. I've had both.

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Old 07-17-2019   #27
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Both the 35mm f1.4 and F2 are great. Of course, modern popular thought is that wide open bokeh equals magic, so of course this means 1.4 is more magical.
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Old 07-17-2019   #28
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Both the 35mm f1.4 and F2 are great. Of course, modern popular thought is that wide open bokeh equals magic, so of course this means 1.4 is more magical.
And the original poster was looking for shallow DOF, and already has the 1.4.

Even stopped down I preferred the f1.4 to the f2. Just rendered differently. And the 1.4 doesn't have the distortion of the f2 that has to be corrected electronically.

Try them both.

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Old 07-17-2019   #29
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I don't have an X-E3 so not sure about size comparison, but another option which is small and has great ergonomics is the Ricoh GXR with the 50mm F2.5 equivalent module.

These should be fairly cheap these days. ISO capability is not going to be as high as on the X-E3. Also the autofocus is not super fast, but if you use the manual focus dial around the lens, it has a very nice depth of field indicator on the screen which also changes based on aperture selected.

Later firmware also added a couple of types of focus peaking, matching what the m-mount module added.

Lastly it also still includes Ricoh's snap focus mode as found on the Ricoh GR.

You could use the EVF (which is getting rare and expensive) but if you're using manual focus and depth of field, an optical 50mm finder might make more sense.
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Old 07-17-2019   #30
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And the original poster was looking for shallow DOF, and already has the 1.4.

Even stopped down I preferred the f1.4 to the f2. Just rendered differently. And the 1.4 doesn't have the distortion of the f2 that has to be corrected electronically.

Try them both.

Shawn
I’ve been a Fuji user since the original X100 and the X-Pro1 with 35. 1.4. I bought both on day 1. If you look at my original post, you will see I told him to keep his 1.4 and that he already has the best combo. He didn’t seem convinced. So, then an even more compact combo is? I’m just stating the facts that both lenses are great. I’ve used it all. Magical lenses are nothing compared to magical light, framing and content.
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Old 07-18-2019   #31
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Fuji body, (I like Xpro2) with CV Nokton 35 1.4 is light and fast. That’s probably the smallest 50mm equivalent I’ve come up with if using modern optics. If you wanna go REALLY small, you could always find an OLD 35mm Elmar. That’s the tiniest lens I own but rarely use it.

For modern optics, the 35mm f2 fuji is good enough for me.
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Old 07-18-2019   #32
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I don't think the Sony RX1Rii has been mentioned yet. It's slightly wider and taller, but might its lens might not extend as far from the body as your 35/1.4. The RX1Rii has a full-frame.
Hmmm, another good option. At 50mm crop, it is still a 24mp camera. But only in jpeg.

And the OP asked for digital and autofocus guys.
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Old 07-18-2019   #33
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X-E3 and 35mm F2. Take this from a likeminded someone who has tried many of the other options listed in this thread. It does what you want while being small, fast, high quality, and cheap. It’s a super underrated combo.
I do this, but with the 27mm pancake. It really is super compact and effective.
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Old 07-18-2019   #34
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I do this, but with the 27mm pancake. It really is super compact and effective.
I do too... that`s a super compact set-up.
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Old 07-19-2019   #35
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Thanks again guys I went to check out the 35mm f2 for the fuji today...nice and compact and definitely quicker/quieter af than my 35 1.4. I did also look at the canon m50 and 32mm 1.4. Snapped some wide open shots with both lenses and tbh...i preferred the canon shots :P *sigh* but im not ready to drop 1200 for that setup hehe
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Old 07-19-2019   #36
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Thanks again guys I went to check out the 35mm f2 for the fuji today...nice and compact and definitely quicker/quieter af than my 35 1.4. I did also look at the canon m50 and 32mm 1.4. Snapped some wide open shots with both lenses and tbh...i preferred the canon shots :P *sigh* but im not ready to drop 1200 for that setup hehe
If Fuji did not exist, I might be using that Canon set-up (or a Sony a6400). However, I`m not the type to nickle and dime IQ, and believe that all of these new APSC cameras have sufficient output vs. each other. So...I go for what feels best in my hands. I prefer brick shapes, small lenses, shutter speed dials, and aperture rings.

You could look into the Canon body and lens used... probably around $900.
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Old 07-19-2019   #37
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I'd highly recommend the Samsung NX Mini with the 17mm F1.8 OIS. At the time it was released, it was the smallest and thinnest mirrorless camera available. It has the same 20mp 1" sensor as the RX100 series, so image quality is excellent. The 17 is a 45mm equivalent - it's very sharp, has nice bokeh, and the stabilization works great. With the 9mm pancake lens (24mm equiv.), it's truly jeans-pocketable.


They're discontinued now, but you can find bodies used for less than $150. The lens is a bit more expensive around $200, but I think it's worth it. It also has all the modern features you'd expect - flip-out touch screen, wifi, etc.
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Old 07-19-2019   #38
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I'd highly recommend the Samsung NX Mini with the 17mm F1.8 OIS. At the time it was released, it was the smallest and thinnest mirrorless camera available. It has the same 20mp 1" sensor as the RX100 series, so image quality is excellent. The 17 is a 45mm equivalent - it's very sharp, has nice bokeh, and the stabilization works great. With the 9mm pancake lens (24mm equiv.), it's truly jeans-pocketable.


They're discontinued now, but you can find bodies used for less than $150. The lens is a bit more expensive around $200, but I think it's worth it. It also has all the modern features you'd expect - flip-out touch screen, wifi, etc.
Cool camera, but he wants shallow depth of field.
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Old 07-19-2019   #39
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Congratulations, the answer is "no"!

You've got the best outfit already. Maybe get the 33mm f/1.0 once it comes out?
Agree that he has the best outfit. Won't get better than an x-e3 and 50 1.4 for size, quality and autofocus, the 33mm is meant to be huge and £3k though.
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Old 07-25-2019   #40
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I'll probably eventually snag an m50 with the 32mm 1.4, but in the meantime i'll keep plugging away with my fuji setup thanks again for all the help guys!
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