Using a digital camera as light meter for medium format film
Old 11-15-2015   #1
Demodres
Registered User
 
Demodres is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 74
Using a digital camera as light meter for medium format film

Hi all RFFs,

I got a question about using my digital camera, a Ricoh GR II, as light meter for my film medium format cameras – the Fuji 645 Professional and Pentax 67.

Is the light metering and following exposures exactly the same between a digital camera with an APSC sensor and the medium format negative? My logical thinking indicates that by keeping the variables (ISO, f-stop and shutter speed) fixed, I should be getting the same exposures and results. However, I wonder if the difference in sensor vs. negative size plays a factor in the exposure?

I could of course just test it out by comparing images between the cameras. However, I am currently travelling and accumulating films for later development hence I cannot do a comparison at this point in time.

All the best and happy shooting, Andreas
__________________
Visit my Flickr page - it´s awesome: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #2
vitaly66
Registered User
 
vitaly66 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 78
Yes.

Extra characters entered here.
__________________
Vitaly
incidence: a journal of light falling
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #3
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 79
Posts: 6,143
Actually I wouldn't feel safe assuming the digital camera is calibrated to ISO standards. would take some trial shots, and/or compare with a known accurate meter.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #4
Hsg
who dares wins
 
Hsg is offline
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 641
You did not mention what kind of film you're shooting.

For negative film, color or b&w, expose +1 stop. For slide film -.7 stop.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #5
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,618
I used this method before I get free exposure meter application for my iPhone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #6
johannielscom
Ich bin ein Barnacker
 
johannielscom's Avatar
 
johannielscom is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Universitas Terre Threntiae
Posts: 7,370
Works perfectly fine, when you factor in the image dimensions. In order to meter correctly for 6x4.5 or 6x7, make sure you get the digital camera to cover the subject as close as it will appear on film.

Film has a 4 or 5 stop latitude so anything that's off can be fixed in post processing, providing you don't expose up to or past the limits.

I've used a D700 with zoom lens set to 70mm to meter for Tri-X in a Hasselblad with 105mm lens, so the coverage would match as close as possible. Worked like a charm.
__________________
Gegroet,
Johan Niels

I write vintage gear reviews on www.johanniels.com |

flickr | instagram |
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #7
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
 
rhl-oregon's Avatar
 
rhl-oregon is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,166
I do this when I'm packing the GR alongside unmetered MF--just 2 pieces of gear, i.e. The GR's low ISO is 100, unlike the older models (iirc), so there'd be some compensating if you rate Tmax @64.

If ISO can be matched, variation might still show up if the 28mm GRD is metering multi-pattern (my Ikonta or Kowa are 45-50mm fov) in mixed light. But I set the GR to spot focus/meter and follow that logic. It IS nice to have metadata on the digital image to compare to film results if one is too lazy like me to note exposure info per frame.

But I'd pack my Lunapro, too, if the occasion warranted. Measure twice, shoot once--thinking like a carpenter.
__________________
Robert Hill Long
Southern Pines, North Carolina USA


http://rhl.photography
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #8
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,333
Don't assume that the digital ISO setting is the same ISO that you use with any given meter. It's very possible that it may work for you, and it's also possible that the digital system is giving you a completely different reading.

Only you can know, by testing your specific system and comparing it to your previous meter.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #9
Steve Bellayr
Registered User
 
Steve Bellayr's Avatar
 
Steve Bellayr is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,943
App on I phone works for me. I checked against hand held meter and meters in various cameras.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #10
narsuitus
Registered User
 
narsuitus's Avatar
 
narsuitus is offline
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demodres View Post
"Using a digital camera as light meter for medium format film"
Not only do I use my digital camera as a light meter for my medium format film cameras but I also use the digital to take composition test shots (like I once used a Polaroid) when I am scouting for a good position.


Film Rangefinder & Digital Compact by Narsuitus, on Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #11
Rayt
Registered User
 
Rayt's Avatar
 
Rayt is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,917
In a pinch I used the light meter app for 4x5 and everything came out ok.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #12
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,692
I haven't done a great deal of metering with digital cameras for film. I used to use my Canon EOS 35mm body with matrix metering (usually in "partial" mode for a smaller more defined reading from certain points) and had excellent results this way with transparency film. But I was always more comfortable doing this with a prime lens of similar focal length to that fitted to the film camera involved. I would be concerned about a modern digital camera with zoom lens returning readings that have been adjusted for lens extension and light loss automatically. Great for the in camera exposure you make with it. Not so great for the readings you transfer to another lens of different speed. I'd be guided by the comments from Ricoh owners here in the first instance. They will be able to offer informed opinions about the metering characteristics of the model and how well it compares to film ISO ratings.

Generally, because of the need to ensure digital highlights are not overexposed you would expect readings used for transparency to be able to be dialled in "as is", due to the likelihood of digital camera metering being keyed to highlights, yes? In which case, some additional allowance may be needed for black and white shadow detail (depending of course on where and how you meter your scene).

If you're on the road and unable to arrange access to a decent dedicated light meter (which from what you have said, I gather is the case) then, I think the suggestions to assess readings with a phone app are good. You can't assume a smart phone is a bulletproof solution either, but at least you can compare the digital metering to the app in different situations. And do a sunny 16 test. Find a few good midtones of average reflectivity in full front lit sun, and take some readings. Not just one. From several objects, and surfaces. If the Ricoh and/or app gives you something close to sunny 16, that's a good start. If not, you may need to consider making adjustments, based on any consistent variations from a nominal f/16 reading.
Cheers,
Brett
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-15-2015   #13
kiemchacsu
Registered User
 
kiemchacsu is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 38
Posts: 1,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demodres View Post
Hi all RFFs,

I got a question about using my digital camera, a Ricoh GR II, as light meter for my film medium format cameras – the Fuji 645 Professional and Pentax 67.
Is this the end of dedicated light meter?
The reason I asked is because I just purchased a Minotal Autometer IVf with intention to use with Rolleiflex 3.5F. To be honest, I sometime found it quite abundant.
__________________
Cheers,
Trung Nguyen

RF
F
photo essays: Hanoi | Hoi An | Ha Giang | Fish Market
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-16-2015   #14
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,548
Hi,

As well as ISO and so on, the FoV comes into it. I wonder about using the digital for my MF meter but was converted once I'd switched the digital to CW and adjusted the scene at the back to have the same FoV.

Imagine using the digital as switched on (meaning averaged reading) at the equivalent of 24mm and the MF with a portrait lens on it to see what I mean about FoV.

Regards, David

PS Now all I need to know is the FoV of the phone and so on...
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-16-2015   #15
mfogiel
Registered User
 
mfogiel's Avatar
 
mfogiel is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Monaco
Posts: 4,658
Sometimes I use my M7 as a "semi spot" light meter for my meterless MF cameras, but if you shoot negative film, any basic light metering method which is consistent will do.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-16-2015   #16
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
 
SolaresLarrave's Avatar
 
SolaresLarrave is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: DeKalb, IL, USA
Age: 60
Posts: 7,489
Done in the past using a Nikon F80 to meter for a Mamiya C 220. There's one problem: to know how to meter for the FOV of the lens you're using.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
-Francisco
Check out
My Leica M4-2 Blog and/or
My Nikon D700 Neophyte's Guide
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-16-2015   #17
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Actually I wouldn't feel safe assuming the digital camera is calibrated to ISO standards. would take some trial shots, and/or compare with a known accurate meter.
ISO is a standard and that's what every Nikon and Canon DSLR that I've owned has been calibrated to. Think about it, if it were calibrated to a different standard we couldn't use a flash meter with it or a spot meter. I use a flash meter with my digital almost every day and it works perfectly.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-16-2015   #18
segedi
RFicianado
 
segedi's Avatar
 
segedi is offline
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiemchacsu View Post
Is this the end of dedicated light meter?
The reason I asked is because I just purchased a Minotal Autometer IVf with intention to use with Rolleiflex 3.5F. To be honest, I sometime found it quite abundant.
I have a light meter app for my phone, but I find the Sekonic meter I have to be more user friendly and easier to read outside.
__________________
-----------------------

Segedi.com

Flickr

Twitter
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2015   #19
pvdhaar
Zoom with your feet!
 
pvdhaar's Avatar
 
pvdhaar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,198
As others have already mentioned, yes it is possible. But.. personally I find it a pain.

Worst of all is the disruption caused by the constant switching between completely dissimilar cameras.. Carrying over shutter speed and aperture settings between them is a drag. Even sunny-16 beats this hands down.

If I don't use sunny-16, I take a very simple Sekonic I-208 with analog read-out along. Its way of working complements my 6x6 slr with waist level finder perfectly. I can see all possible exposure combinations in a single go. It's small, light and runs for years on two LR44 batteries, and what's more, it can do incident as well.
__________________
Kind regards,

Peter

My Hexländer Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2015   #20
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
 
SolaresLarrave's Avatar
 
SolaresLarrave is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: DeKalb, IL, USA
Age: 60
Posts: 7,489
The Sekonic L-208 I had used only one 2032 battery.
They are reliable, easy to use and very portable. Just beware of dropping it. They die on impact.
There's an older, selenium model: the L-86. That's one tough little bugger! I've dropped mine just a couple of times and it's still ticking. And it ticks well indeed!
I guess now the tide turned. Just get a meter or the meter app and have fun!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
-Francisco
Check out
My Leica M4-2 Blog and/or
My Nikon D700 Neophyte's Guide
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2015   #21
pvdhaar
Zoom with your feet!
 
pvdhaar's Avatar
 
pvdhaar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
The Sekonic L-208 I had used only one 2032 battery
You're absolutely right.. I must have mixed the batteries up with something else.. But it sure now makes me wonder why I keep two LR44's at hand for when the batteries would die..
__________________
Kind regards,

Peter

My Hexländer Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2015   #22
Freakscene
Deregistered user
 
Freakscene's Avatar
 
Freakscene is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In exile
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
ISO is a standard and that's what every Nikon and Canon DSLR that I've owned has been calibrated to. Think about it, if it were calibrated to a different standard we couldn't use a flash meter with it or a spot meter. I use a flash meter with my digital almost every day and it works perfectly.
The ISO standards for light meters for film speed and digital ISO are calculated differently and don't bear a great deal of resemblance to each other, as are the film and digital sensor ISO standards. What the OP proposes can work, but you'll have to test. But for critical work you have to test if you use a film ISO calibrated meter (12% reflectance) and you or the film manufacturer assume 18% reflectance. Any light meter is useful if it is precise and accurate and you know how to use it with your materials, but the further its basic settings are from the standard, the more work you need to do to establish the relationship between the readings and what you should do.

Marty
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2015   #23
AlexBG
Registered User
 
AlexBG is offline
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 187
I do exactly what you have asked, sony rx100 for my bronica shots. It's a pain even with such a small camera but I usually take a few shots with the sony then swap the bronica on to the tripod and take one with that. I just expose +1 stop but know to do this from practise.

I did go to my local camera shop to buy a meter and the guys there said to just use my rx100, gives you lot's of metering options and a text shot.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2015   #24
silkyfeet
Registered User
 
silkyfeet is offline
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 61
this is exactly what i was thinking regarding the OP question. i bought a r67 proii and have a digital 70d. i want to rent a location and do some test shots for a project and thought of using my 70d to test for exposure and lighting. Im gonna be using continuous lighting.

my thinking was using liveview with spot metering to check shadows and highlights would act like a polaroid.

light meters are a tad pricy. location will have mixed lighting so sunny 16 wont be useful.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2015   #25
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 71
Posts: 6,014
Sometimes when I shoot my Rolleiflex i use the Leica x1 set to spot to meter the area of main interest in the scene. Author times I simply use my sekonic 308...both systems work well for me but I also rely on the latitude of the negative color film.
robert
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 18:03.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.