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Lightroom v6.7 perpetual - where to go from here (don’t want subscription Adobe CC)

Old 12-11-2019   #1
menos
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Lightroom v6.7 perpetual - where to go from here (don’t want subscription Adobe CC)


I am a long time Adobe Lightroom user (using Lightroom since v1.x).
I absolutely loooooove Lightroom and am using it basically blindfolded with keyboard shortcuts and using it’s DAM aspect extensively, rating, keyboarding and archiving mostly still photographs from a large number of digital cameras and film scans.



Since Adobe has pushed users into their cloud based product I have been looking into replacing Lightroom (I have bought every license up to v6.7 which I am currently still using on MacOS).

Over the years I have looked into Aperture (which got discontinued sadly), Capture One, ON One (is that what it’s called ?) and several pure standalone RAW developer apps.



I have had a quick look into Photo Mechanic for the super fast ingestion and rating workflow a few years ago and basically liked it but then the all-around Lightroom only use for DAM and basic editing and printing was just always in every way superior as a package.




Currently I need to manage my archive from about 15 years of photography, need to regularly ingest digital still photographs, film scans (which I prepare via VueScan and prepare the files to be treated by the DAM essential as digital image files) and I want to always archive video files I produce with digital cameras.



I want the Lightroom replacement first and foremost to be a robust, secure and rock solid DAM software.


I do not mind to have to do my editing in a standalone software if I absolutely have to.


I do not want to do any video editing in my Lightroom replacement but do this solely in Final Cut Pro.

I do want to archive, rate and keyword my video files with the Lightroom replacement though.


I understand that Adobe CC is THE PERFECT product for me, given how fluent I am in Lightroom + I get the latest builds of Photoshop to use for what its worth and get to have more powerful tools across devices (iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Pro, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro, all of which would be nicely integrated which currently is a bit messy).



I do have an incredible hard time to accept the cloud aspect and PARTICULARLY the subscription based payment aspect and more aggressive DRM aspect with necessary internet connectivity (I live in a place with censored internet and very often have a hard time to get a secure internet connection at all and would hate to be stranded in a “license check internet connectivity issue” which currently on perpetual license software is no issue at all).



I have recently tested extensively On One which promises with big words to be a great, modern Lightroom replacement but sadly it doesn’t even come close, being EXTREMELY slow ans sluggish to use (on a fully maxed out BTO MacBook Pro none the less which FLIES in Lightroom).


I see ON One not as a valid Lightroom replacement for that matter (I want at least the same speed I get from Lightroom 6.7.




Is there any valid option in 2019/20 as a Lightroom replacement for those needs?

Is moving to the Adobe CC jailhouse the only way to go from here (I am stuck with old Lightroom in terms of OS upgrade path and some of my newer cameras and file formats are not properly supported by Lightroom 6.7).

Please discuss ;-) I am curious what you guys are doing who were / are in the same situation.
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Old 12-12-2019   #2
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this has been discussed here in recent weeks and months, am afraid don't have an answer perhaps others do. but did you know your 6.x license is valid also on Windows, which ecosystem probably keeps living in 32bit mode quite a while still, because lot more legacy programs that Microsoft cannot kill like Apple can.

and, latest Lightroom non-CC version is 6.14, you could upgrade to that without a cost.
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Old 12-12-2019   #3
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I am in the same boat, I do not want to subscribe to CC, not sure what to do. Will follow the thread closely.
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Old 12-12-2019   #4
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While I have 6.14 so some time left, my Macbook is showing signs of mortality and I'm not sure I want to pay Apple's replacement costs for a large screen laptop / computer. So a standalone non-Mac solution may well have currency. I will not move to a subscription model.
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Old 12-12-2019   #5
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i looked into capture one (not the newest version, however), and that might be my choice once the old LR no longer suffices. i just could't say bye to well established routines yet ...

regards (also to eileen)
cheers,
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Old 12-12-2019   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarski View Post
this has been discussed here in recent weeks and months, am afraid don't have an answer perhaps others do. but did you know your 6.x license is valid also on Windows, which ecosystem probably keeps living in 32bit mode quite a while still, because lot more legacy programs that Microsoft cannot kill like Apple can.

and, latest Lightroom non-CC version is 6.14, you could upgrade to that without a cost.
I am not touching Microsoft products with a stick.

I am forced to deal with a couple of VMs I use on my MacBook Pro as for work I have to use a couple software tools which are Windows only.
The troubleshooting and upkeep on those is already way too much I am willing to do to myself.

Another option to running Lightroom in a Windows environment would be to keep an older Mac OS build running on one of the machines or run it through a VM which both would be a better solution to having to deal with Windows - but again, this is not practical and in a VM would massively hinder performance.

My current everyday working machine is a completely maxed out BTO MacBook Pro I didn't pay thousands of EUR over base price to then shoot myself in the knee running software in a VM

The only thing that has held me back from moving to Adobe Lightroom CC since it was released is my complete adversity to any sort of subscription based payment method.
I was happy to pay Adobe the 125 odd EUR once ever other year as I did until they stopped selling perpetuals. I would have been happy to pay them 500 EUR for each major Lightroom build it is such good a software but a subscription contract model no matter how cheap just goes completely against my grain.

I just downloaded trial versions of Photo Mechanic 6 and Capture One Pro.
I know PM from years ago and really liked it for speed and fast image rating and people seem to love Capture One a lot (I never used it).

If everything else fails Adobe's arm twisting, blackmailing offer one cannot refuse seems to be the very, very last straw.

I also made several elaborate efforts to update my v6.7 to the very last build (which I am free to do theoretically) but to this day I have simply not found ANY method to either update through Adobe's horrendous update manager app or better download incremental patches or a full last installer.

Adobe just makes it incredibly difficult for anyone to stay in the last perpetual build - another reason why I would love to show Adobe the finger and go elsewhere. I just hate the way they showed people who love perpetuals the door. This was and is very, very bad business practice.


If anyone has any prior experience with using Photo Mechanic and Capture One Pro to replace Lightroom I'd love to hear of the in and outs.

I am scared to migrate the several external drives, network drives and metadata to ANY new software solution

#FilmWasEasy
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Old 12-12-2019   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
I also made several elaborate efforts to update my v6.7 to the very last build (which I am free to do theoretically) but to this day I have simply not found ANY method to either update through Adobe's horrendous update manager app or better download incremental patches or a full last installer.
you can login to adobe.com, search your purchases (order history), and there along with serial number is the direct download link to dmg file.
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Old 12-12-2019   #8
Larry Cloetta
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Quote: “I am a long time Adobe Lightroom user (using Lightroom since v1.x).
I absolutely loooooove Lightroom and am using it basically blindfolded with keyboard shortcuts and using it’s DAM aspect extensively, rating, keyboarding and archiving mostly still photographs from a large number of digital cameras and film scans.”

Given what you have said here, and after carefully reading what you have said in the rest of your introduction, my advice would be to get Adobe CC LR and PS, and be happy, as I think that’s what would make you the happiest in the long run, given your situation.
It comes down to a choice of either slightly adjusting one’s attitude towards different payment paradigms, or changing one’s entire workflow, which in your case I am pretty sure is going to mean something which is more trouble for less quality every single day going forward.
I now have Adobe CC, Capture One 20, the DxO Suite, and several others, but, again, for someone who is as you describe yourself, I don’t think you will ever be as happy with any of the other solutions as you will be with Adobe CC, all things considered.

There are no issues with “cloud based” systems unless you specifically want there to be. With Adobe CC, you are not forced to store things in the cloud unless you want to. You will get LR CC, which is cloud based, but you also get conventional LR as a separate program, located on your computer, which is updated regularly, exactly as LR CC is updated. I have never even installed LR CC as I prefer to work with all my files stored locally. I can work on anything I want to any time I want to, there is no need to be connected to the internet to work in LR or PS, so, if that was one of your concerns, it needn’t be.

It irritated me when Adobe announced a move to the new payment system, and I initially swore I would never allow myself to be pushed into a subscription system. After unhappily knuckling under, these years later I realize it was one of the best software decisions I have ever made. More seamless than buying regular or semi regular upgrades, the old way. Things just work better, with fewer bugs. And, for DAM, especially for someone who is as knowledgeable about LR and ensconced as you seem to be, it’s hard to find something as capable as LR, IMO.
I could have abandoned Adobe out of the antipathy I, and you, and most others had to the subscription payment model, but am personally glad I didn’t as I understand now that would have been a perfect example of cutting off my nose to spite my face. Life is just easier now than it ever was when I was trying to skip software iterations. Stuff just works better this way. The initial alarm and irritation over having to switch to a different payment system has disappeared as it is just a mental block; at this point, given how well it works, I could not care less.
Everything involving computer operating systems, updates, software suites, is a “jailhouse”, it’s all a PITA. No matter which of those we are forced to deal with, we always have the choice of paying more, being current, and with fewer compatibility problems, and greater ease of use, or with paying less and trying to squeeze as much life out of programs and computers as we can, with the inevitable operability downsides.
There’s a different sweet spot in there for different people depending on their individual wants and needs and tolerance for things that don’t work smoothly or well, but for you, the OP, my guess is that you would be happiest in the long run by just switching over to Adobe CC and keeping your current workflow.

YMMV
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Old 12-12-2019   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post

There are no issues with “cloud based” systems unless you specifically want there to be.
i respectfully disagree with this statement. having lived behind the great firewall of china for some years, i happen to know what it means when out of a sudden, certain internet connections fail. sometimes for days. sometimes for weeks. sometimes for good.

no. i sincerely doubt, that cloud is reliable. especiaĺly in some regions of this world.
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Old 12-12-2019   #10
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The CC model absolutely sucks here in Vermont. My connection is pretty lame compared to the “standard”, and simple tasks like opening up Bridge to do some file sorting can be impossible when the software decides it must be updated. Just last week I had an hour before an appointment, thought “I’ll get that rough for this new book set up in InDesign.” Fifteen minutes waiting while the app updated. Started it, and then it froze. I force quit, and restarted. Got the document set up, went to place the first image and got the spinning beach ball. 5 minutes of that, and another force quit. Bridge often freezes, or crashes. A simple keyboard command to add a rating to an image can take three or four minutes. Seriously. Then Photoshop is a cluster of annoyance. Freezes, crashes, the spinning beachball of death. The answer? Spending a half hour with adobe and then having them take over your machine from India to “fix” the problem. I really don’t understand why these programs need to be updated monthly, and why said updates can’t add stability rather than reduce it more often than not. CC is the worst thing I pay for. But sadly, for what I do a required pointed stick.

I’ve been using these programs since CS4, and have zero hope that it will ever get back to as good as CS7 was. This current machine is more than robust enough for CC according to their requirements. Doesn’t seem to help.
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Old 12-12-2019   #11
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I have heard good things about Raw Power for the Mac. I just got a refurb Mac mini and I am strongly considering the ap. Same folks that wrote Aperture for Mac.

https://gentlemencoders.com
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Old 12-12-2019   #12
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I just posted an image in "Images from your Retina" that was processed using Raw Power. I can't justify the cost for Lightroom for the number of images I expose each month. I tried darktable but didn't find it as user friendly as Raw Power. It offers what I need.
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Old 12-12-2019   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastel View Post
i respectfully disagree with this statement. having lived behind the great firewall of china for some years, i happen to know what it means when out of a sudden, certain internet connections fail. sometimes for days. sometimes for weeks. sometimes for good.

no. i sincerely doubt, that cloud is reliable. especiaĺly in some regions of this world.
No, no, please don’t misunderstand, what I meant was that if using Adobe CC, you don’t have to store your images in the cloud, unless you want to.
I store all files locally.

I don’t disagree with you at all. The “Cloud” is aptly named, a gauzy, puffy thing that is prone to blowing away and disappearing.
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Old 12-12-2019   #14
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Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
The CC model absolutely sucks here in Vermont. My connection is pretty lame compared to the “standard”, and simple tasks like opening up Bridge to do some file sorting can be impossible when the software decides it must be updated. Just last week I had an hour before an appointment, thought “I’ll get that rough for this new book set up in InDesign.” Fifteen minutes waiting while the app updated. Started it, and then it froze. I force quit, and restarted. Got the document set up, went to place the first image and got the spinning beach ball. 5 minutes of that, and another force quit. Bridge often freezes, or crashes. A simple keyboard command to add a rating to an image can take three or four minutes. Seriously. Then Photoshop is a cluster of annoyance. Freezes, crashes, the spinning beachball of death. The answer? Spending a half hour with adobe and then having them take over your machine from India to “fix” the problem. I really don’t understand why these programs need to be updated monthly, and why said updates can’t add stability rather than reduce it more often than not. CC is the worst thing I pay for. But sadly, for what I do a required pointed stick.

I’ve been using these programs since CS4, and have zero hope that it will ever get back to as good as CS7 was. This current machine is more than robust enough for CC according to their requirements. Doesn’t seem to help.
I usually think I have more trouble with software or software vendors than anyone, but I’ve not had any of this since moving to CC, knock on wood.
Because, I don’t store files in the cloud? Or, just lucky? My time due up next?
It’s actually been one of the few software Suites I have never had to contact tech support about. Yet.... though tomorrow is another day

But, that sounds awful.
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Old 12-12-2019   #15
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I'm working my way through learning On1 Photo RAW 2020 and (mostly) enjoying it. As I become proficient in it, LR will disappear into the past.
BTW, I have no idea what "Lightroom v6.7 Perpetual License" is. The last, final, never to be updated again perpetual license version of Lightroom is v6.14.

RAW Power also works well. As do so many other apps that don't require me to pay up every month.

Sorry, Adobe. I'm not a business with a half a dozen employees using this software every day. I don't buy software every month.

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Old 12-12-2019   #16
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Capture One.

Download the trial...perpetual or subscription options, with no messy cloud behavior.

Yes, learning curve with new software of this nature, that’s inevitable. I resisted this for a long time but finally succumbed.

Adobe reminds me of a government entity...no thanks.
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Old 12-12-2019   #17
menos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarski View Post
you can login to adobe.com, search your purchases (order history), and there along with serial number is the direct download link to dmg file.
Unfortunately you cannot :-(

That is one of the major issues with Adobe.
Part of their business behavior is to aggressively push forward with marketing their current and future products and COMPLETELY abandoning past paying customers who simply liked to pay a single license fee for a software suit.

As a user of the last Lightroom 6 perpetual version before CC Adobe has made it IMPOSSIBLE to obtain the last issued update or full installer download.

I am on an outdated build as the integrated update manager does not recognize the later 6.14 version and insists that I am on the latest version.

NOWHERE on the Adobe site is it still possible to obtain the updates or complete installers.

I have been through hours of chat window interaction over the last months with Adobe in order to obtain downloads for my valid serial number I have paid for. All I am asking is to get the last version installer I have paid for as the integrated update manager has been faulty for me.

This whole experience is another big part why I am so through with Adobe as a business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
Quote: “I am a long time Adobe Lightroom user (using Lightroom since v1.x).
I absolutely loooooove Lightroom and am using it basically blindfolded with keyboard shortcuts and using it’s DAM aspect extensively, rating, keyboarding and archiving mostly still photographs from a large number of digital cameras and film scans.”

Given what you have said here, and after carefully reading what you have said in the rest of your introduction, my advice would be to get Adobe CC LR and PS, and be happy, as I think that’s what would make you the happiest in the long run, given your situation.
It comes down to a choice of either slightly adjusting one’s attitude towards different payment paradigms, or changing one’s entire workflow, which in your case I am pretty sure is going to mean something which is more trouble for less quality every single day going forward.
I now have Adobe CC, Capture One 20, the DxO Suite, and several others, but, again, for someone who is as you describe yourself, I don’t think you will ever be as happy with any of the other solutions as you will be with Adobe CC, all things considered.

There are no issues with “cloud based” systems unless you specifically want there to be. With Adobe CC, you are not forced to store things in the cloud unless you want to. You will get LR CC, which is cloud based, but you also get conventional LR as a separate program, located on your computer, which is updated regularly, exactly as LR CC is updated. I have never even installed LR CC as I prefer to work with all my files stored locally. I can work on anything I want to any time I want to, there is no need to be connected to the internet to work in LR or PS, so, if that was one of your concerns, it needn’t be.

It irritated me when Adobe announced a move to the new payment system, and I initially swore I would never allow myself to be pushed into a subscription system. After unhappily knuckling under, these years later I realize it was one of the best software decisions I have ever made. More seamless than buying regular or semi regular upgrades, the old way. Things just work better, with fewer bugs. And, for DAM, especially for someone who is as knowledgeable about LR and ensconced as you seem to be, it’s hard to find something as capable as LR, IMO.
I could have abandoned Adobe out of the antipathy I, and you, and most others had to the subscription payment model, but am personally glad I didn’t as I understand now that would have been a perfect example of cutting off my nose to spite my face. Life is just easier now than it ever was when I was trying to skip software iterations. Stuff just works better this way. The initial alarm and irritation over having to switch to a different payment system has disappeared as it is just a mental block; at this point, given how well it works, I could not care less.
Everything involving computer operating systems, updates, software suites, is a “jailhouse”, it’s all a PITA. No matter which of those we are forced to deal with, we always have the choice of paying more, being current, and with fewer compatibility problems, and greater ease of use, or with paying less and trying to squeeze as much life out of programs and computers as we can, with the inevitable operability downsides.
There’s a different sweet spot in there for different people depending on their individual wants and needs and tolerance for things that don’t work smoothly or well, but for you, the OP, my guess is that you would be happiest in the long run by just switching over to Adobe CC and keeping your current workflow.

YMMV
Your experience sounds like the best case scenario and I wish I could do the same but with my past experience with Adobe, updates and internet connectivity issues I have to live with this is just not an option.

Part of what I do for a living in a internet connectivity hostile environment here is to keep software that works running. Adobe CC sounds like a nightmare to deal with.
I understand fully that the general NA and European citizen has zero experience with the horror people have to deal with in countries that run a strong and ever changing internet censorship in terms of complete loss of productivity, being off the grid literally for weeks at a time.
I do not have the time to trouble shoot what Adobe thinks is a great idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastel View Post
i respectfully disagree with this statement. having lived behind the great firewall of china for some years, i happen to know what it means when out of a sudden, certain internet connections fail. sometimes for days. sometimes for weeks. sometimes for good.

no. i sincerely doubt, that cloud is reliable. especiaĺly in some regions of this world.
There is a man who knows the suffering ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
The CC model absolutely sucks here in Vermont. My connection is pretty lame compared to the “standard”, and simple tasks like opening up Bridge to do some file sorting can be impossible when the software decides it must be updated. Just last week I had an hour before an appointment, thought “I’ll get that rough for this new book set up in InDesign.” Fifteen minutes waiting while the app updated. Started it, and then it froze. I force quit, and restarted. Got the document set up, went to place the first image and got the spinning beach ball. 5 minutes of that, and another force quit. Bridge often freezes, or crashes. A simple keyboard command to add a rating to an image can take three or four minutes. Seriously. Then Photoshop is a cluster of annoyance. Freezes, crashes, the spinning beachball of death. The answer? Spending a half hour with adobe and then having them take over your machine from India to “fix” the problem. I really don’t understand why these programs need to be updated monthly, and why said updates can’t add stability rather than reduce it more often than not. CC is the worst thing I pay for. But sadly, for what I do a required pointed stick.

I’ve been using these programs since CS4, and have zero hope that it will ever get back to as good as CS7 was. This current machine is more than robust enough for CC according to their requirements. Doesn’t seem to help.
This sounds bad, thank you very much for sharing.

Is there no way to LOCK Adobe software and prevent auto updates at least until YOU are ready to install and possibly trouble shoot at YOUR leisure ?
This is a huge part why I reject to deal with Microsoft products and love the approach Apple takes regarding their software updates - the end user stays still in full control when and how the user WANTS to update a software, when it is convenient.
No productivity wrecking broken updates are pushed down users throats this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austintatious View Post
I have heard good things about Raw Power for the Mac. I just got a refurb Mac mini and I am strongly considering the ap. Same folks that wrote Aperture for Mac.

https://gentlemencoders.com
I will check it out.
It looks so far that DAM has to be done on the OS level (through Mac Finder), ingesting to be done with something like Photo Mechanic and editing to be done in small batches or single files through external raw processors.

I have tinkered with Photo Mechanic for an afternoon and am REALLY liking it (the UI looks a little more agricultural or utilitarian opposed to the very slick look Lightroom has gotten over the years but it will do).

I like how PM6 does let you have full control over the ingestion with lots of customizability and how speedy it is in letting you do the first culling and rating.
You can even set it up to behave very similar to what you are used from Lightroom just with an added speed bonus (files ingestion happens MUCH faster than Lr6 and you are basically up and rating and rotating images the moment you star the process while with Lightroom there is always ideally a coffee break before getting to work.

PM6 is a sure buy for me, no matter if I decide to stick with old Lightroom
or move to other tools.

I have downloaded a trial of Capture One Pro 20 and will give it some time to try (its looks DEEP).

So far the biggest thing I would miss, losing Lightroom is the very, very fast and deep DAM features.
I am using Lightroom A LOT for that alone (say someone says something about an event a couple years back I took photos of - it takes me no more than 1 minute to find all relevant photos in the archive - Lightroom's greatest feature and I would miss it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I'm working my way through learning On1 Photo RAW 2020 and (mostly) enjoying it. As I become proficient in it, LR will disappear into the past.
BTW, I have no idea what "Lightroom v6.7 Perpetual License" is. The last, final, never to be updated again perpetual license version of Lightroom is v6.14.

RAW Power also works well. As do so many other apps that don't require me to pay up every month.

Sorry, Adobe. I'm not a business with a half a dozen employees using this software every day. I don't buy software every month.

G
I have tried ON1 fairly recently (about half a year ago) and although it initially looked like a Lightroom carbon copy on the surface with some neat added expanded tools it basically fell apart VERY QUICKLY.

It just doesn't hold up to large archives and fast working in batches as it is just way too slow and sluggish compared to Lightroom.

I could see someone though who manages a small archive and occasionally takes photos to be very happy with it - sort of like a step up from Adobe Bridge or Apple Photos App.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
Capture One.

Download the trial...perpetual or subscription options, with no messy cloud behavior.

Yes, learning curve with new software of this nature, that’s inevitable. I resisted this for a long time but finally succumbed.

Adobe reminds me of a government entity...no thanks.
I'll give it a long test - everyone raves about it and it seems like a serious software.
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Old 12-12-2019   #18
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Originally Posted by menos View Post
... As a user of the last Lightroom 6 perpetual version before CC Adobe has made it IMPOSSIBLE to obtain the last issued update or full installer download.
This is why I archive the full installer of every software application I install, along with the keys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
I have tried ON1 fairly recently (about half a year ago) and although it initially looked like a Lightroom carbon copy on the surface with some neat added expanded tools it basically fell apart VERY QUICKLY.

It just doesn't hold up to large archives and fast working in batches as it is just way too slow and sluggish compared to Lightroom.

I could see someone though who manages a small archive and occasionally takes photos to be very happy with it - sort of like a step up from Adobe Bridge or Apple Photos App.
The speed seems fine on my system.

It never appeared to me to be any kind Lightroom copy at all. It's mostly missing all of the underlying db structure, being more of a file browser with editing features ... Yes, much like an enhanced Bridge. It's nothing like Apple Photos at all either.

But it seems competent and could be useful. I'll know more in a week or so of using it as to whether it is actually useful.
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Old 12-12-2019   #19
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Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
The CC model absolutely sucks here in Vermont. My connection is pretty lame compared to the “standard”, and simple tasks like opening up Bridge to do some file sorting can be impossible when the software decides it must be updated. Just last week I had an hour before an appointment, thought “I’ll get that rough for this new book set up in InDesign.” Fifteen minutes waiting while the app updated. Started it, and then it froze. I force quit, and restarted. Got the document set up, went to place the first image and got the spinning beach ball. 5 minutes of that, and another force quit. Bridge often freezes, or crashes. A simple keyboard command to add a rating to an image can take three or four minutes. Seriously. Then Photoshop is a cluster of annoyance. Freezes, crashes, the spinning beachball of death. The answer? Spending a half hour with adobe and then having them take over your machine from India to “fix” the problem. I really don’t understand why these programs need to be updated monthly, and why said updates can’t add stability rather than reduce it more often than not. CC is the worst thing I pay for. But sadly, for what I do a required pointed stick.

I’ve been using these programs since CS4, and have zero hope that it will ever get back to as good as CS7 was. This current machine is more than robust enough for CC according to their requirements. Doesn’t seem to help.
I've been using CC for a few years now. I've never had any of these problems. It never updates unless I want it to and have never had the freezing and crashing you describe. Maybe it's your computer that's the issue.
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Old 12-12-2019   #20
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If you can afford all the latest, fastest BTO hardware and as such speed is important likewise reliability and seamless integration then you have answered your own question.



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Old 12-12-2019   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
Unfortunately you cannot :-(

That is one of the major issues with Adobe.
Part of their business behavior is to aggressively push forward with marketing their current and future products and COMPLETELY abandoning past paying customers who simply liked to pay a single license fee for a software suit.

As a user of the last Lightroom 6 perpetual version before CC Adobe has made it IMPOSSIBLE to obtain the last issued update or full installer download.

I am on an outdated build as the integrated update manager does not recognize the later 6.14 version and insists that I am on the latest version.

NOWHERE on the Adobe site is it still possible to obtain the updates or complete installers.
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I'm not sure what you're talking about. I own the last LR6 perpetual, now using the CC versions. I just went on Adobe, signed into my account and looked at Plans / Order history.

My last order for LR6 was April, 2015, a 6.0 upgrade. Using the "Downloads and serial numbers" link, I can download either the WIN or MAC versions (full installer) and my serial number is listed. The two download files are labeled "Photoshop Lightroom 6" but these are actually the full install versions for 6.14. WIN version is 1.1GB, the MAC version is 1.2GB.

I guess I'm not really understanding what it is you are after. I have LR6.14 on a laptop and use CC on two desktops.
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Old 12-12-2019   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plummerl View Post
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I own the last LR6 perpetual, now using the CC versions. I just went on Adobe, signed into my account and looked at Plans / Order history.

My last order for LR6 was April, 2015, a 6.0 upgrade. Using the "Downloads and serial numbers" link, I can download either the WIN or MAC versions (full installer) and my serial number is listed. The two download files are labeled "Photoshop Lightroom 6" but these are actually the full install versions for 6.14. WIN version is 1.1GB, the MAC version is 1.2GB.

I guess I'm not really understanding what it is you are after. I have LR6.14 on a laptop and use CC on two desktops.
yes exactly. this is how to download the full installer of latest LR 6.14, which works everywhere except latest Mac OS Catalina.

personally am planning to switch Windows, when it comes to photo cataloging and raw editing in future. currently still using a Mac for that.
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Old 12-12-2019   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
Part of what I do for a living in a internet connectivity hostile environment here is to keep software that works running. Adobe CC sounds like a nightmare to deal with.
I understand fully that the general NA and European citizen has zero experience with the horror people have to deal with in countries that run a strong and ever changing internet censorship in terms of complete loss of productivity, being off the grid literally for weeks at a time.
Adobe Creative Cloud actually needs a couple of seconds of internet connection every 30 days. If you opt for yearly subscription then you have additional 99 days of offline use. Do your internet blackouts last almost half a year at times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
Is there no way to LOCK Adobe software and prevent auto updates at least until YOU are ready to install and possibly trouble shoot at YOUR leisure ?
Of course there is. I was NEVER even prompted that a new version was available let alone auto-updated to a new version. I manually run Adobe Creative Cloud application once in a while to see if there are new versions available.
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Old 12-12-2019   #24
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Give darktable a try. It's a very capable open-source management and editing tool for Windows, OSX, and linux.
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Old 12-13-2019   #25
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I moved to Capture One and never looked back. Is an expensive product with a rather steep learning curve.
In the end I can do anything I could with LR.
If you want to go the Open Source route, you can try Dark Table indeed (just released a new version). The GIMP and/or Raw Therapee.
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Old 12-13-2019   #26
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I've been using Lightroom 4 and Photoshop CS 6 standalones for awhile. Eventually I will succumb to the subscription model I'm sure but since i'm still on Sierra with no plans to upgrade, I'm good till I'm forced to buy a new Mac. Maybe they'll be a good alternative by then.

I've dabbled in Capture 1 but never dedicated the time to really learn it. I actually think it looks better for some of my RAWs but the interface is more difficult for me to use and I end up going back to Lightroom out of laziness.

Up till the most recent 16 inch MacBook Pro, I was thinking my next machine might be something running Linux, but Apple seems to have fixed the most egregious problems with the new 16 inch so they might keep me for another few years.
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Old 12-13-2019   #27
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Instead of articulating the moaning and grinding of teeth, lets look at the alternatives.... Some have mentioned Capture One, Darktable and ACDSee Pro. Any others?
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Old 12-13-2019   #28
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There's also On1, Luminar, RawTherapee, and Exposure X5.
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Old 12-13-2019   #29
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I just went through the first four videos in the On1 Photo RAW 2020 Foundations webinar. They make clearer a number of details about the On1 toolset.

So far, I'm finding On1 to be learnable and usable. There are various things that Lightroom has that On1 does not ... like the slide show and the templated print module with complex printing capabilities ... which might get in my way if I can't find sensible other ways to achieve certain output products. Basic import/render/export seems to be quite decent.

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Old 12-13-2019   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastel View Post
i respectfully disagree with this statement. having lived behind the great firewall of china for some years, i happen to know what it means when out of a sudden, certain internet connections fail. sometimes for days. sometimes for weeks. sometimes for good.

no. i sincerely doubt, that cloud is reliable. especiaĺly in some regions of this world.
LR Classic (non-mobile OS X an Windows versions) only requirers Cloud usage for one thing. Every 30 days (monthly subscribers) or every 99 days (annual subscribers) you must log into the Adobe Creative Cloud app to authentically your account. If you update the LR Classic version this counts as a log-in.

All other forms of Creative Cloud usage are 100% optional. I happen to turn them off. This is not because of security or access concerns but because I find the image syncing options to be inconvenient and confusing. Otherwise, Lightroom Classic does not rely in any way on Adobe Cloud access to function. All the executable code resides locally on your computer.

If your internet connection "fails for good", then Adobe CC access will be the least of your problems. However, I agree that any location with unreliable internet connectivity could be an issue. That said, the login into Adobe CC requires a very low data transfer rate. All you have to do is display the app login page and enter your credentials. This means even an extremely slow connection will suffice for monthly or 100 day validations. In locations where internet access is erratic, logging into the Adobe CC app whenever access happens to be available would eliminate concerns unless outages were less than 30 or 100 days long.

None of this addresses using a subscription licensing model as opposed to a one-time per new version licensing model. The reason to reject LR Classic is subjective disapproval of the subscription model. This is a reasonable position for people who do not purchase new cameras regularly and do not value access to improved Adobe rendering algorithms and new post-production rendering tools. Otherwise the per year cost is similar to paying for version updates via an one-time per new version license. And you have complete access to Photoshop at no additional cost
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Old 12-13-2019   #31
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Since you value LR's DAM tools I think you have three options.

1. Switch to Windows and use your existing 32 bit license.

2. Switch to LR Classic via the Adobe Creative Cloud app for OS X and use the 64 bit version.

3. Use two different versions of OS X on the same machine. One version would be 32 bit OS X 10.14 (Mojave) or lower and the other would be 64 bit OS X 10.15 (Catalina) for everything else. There are several strategies to set up your existing Mac to boot into either 10.14 or 10.15 (but not both simultaneously).

For those who want to use OS X 10.15 and abandon single use liscensced LR Classic, I suggest looking at Pixelmater or Pixelmater Pro. As far as I know Pixelmater does not support DAM. I am not familiar will how to efficiently and effectively switch from LR Classic to Pixelmator.
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Old 12-13-2019   #32
Barry Kirsten
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There has been a similar discussion to this over on LFPF and one of the alternatives to Adobe software that has had some favourable comments is Affinity Photo: https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/ I've looked into it and think this is the way I'll go, having recently ditched Adobe CC for the second time.
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Old 12-13-2019   #33
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Capture One is the obvious choice. They have an import tool that will save all or nearly all of your Lightroom tagging and such. Make sure you follow the directions. The color of Capture One is better than Lightroom, and I dont' even think it is close frankly. It is just a much better program for editing.

I am running both these days as a transition. Digital files go straight into Capture One with the intent that my next computer will be free from the A empire.

I've tried others, but they fall short.
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Old 12-14-2019   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Kirsten View Post
There has been a similar discussion to this over on LFPF and one of the alternatives to Adobe software that has had some favourable comments is Affinity Photo: https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/ I've looked into it and think this is the way I'll go, having recently ditched Adobe CC for the second time.
Affinity Photo is a good Photoshop-like app. It works well, although like Photoshop it's more of a 'Swiss army knife' pixel/graphics editor rather than being a parametric editor/DAM like LR.

One of the useful things, to me, about Affinity Photo is that it runs on both macOS and iPadOS. I bought it a little over a year ago and use it occasionally: It produces very nice results but is a bit complex to learn (again, like Photoshop). There's also a very nice help/workflow book available for Affinity Photo.

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Old 12-14-2019   #35
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Just a quick reminder of the pre-subscription model:

LR was about $150-200 and was updated in a major way every 2 years or less.

PS was IIRC about $600-700 dollars and was updated every 2-3 years in a major way. (Most simply pirated it, some got it at EDU discounts).

So at the low end if you wanted both you'd be looking at a $750 dollar investment, but if you were ok with LR that was fine too, as it does most things. Except you're still shelling out $150-200 every couple years.

So over a 24mo period you're paying about $8.33 per month.

Compare that to now and you can get both LR and PS (and LRCC, and Portfolio, and a small suite of other apps you may find useful) for $9.99 a month.

So while I understand that subscription bloat in this day and age rubs folks the wrong way, you do have to accept that Adobe drastically cut prices and increased the bang/buck ratio. They also basically halted significant piracy over night. Pure amateurs, working pros, and everyone in between now as access to their tools for less than the cost of a couple of pints of beer.

Now you might say that you never intend to upgrade the software, and maybe you won't. But 2 years is a long time in computer terms. Eventually something will happen that will force an upgrade, and you'll be shelling out again.

Given that software is by nature ephemeral and ethereal, my $.02 is to just pay the $9.99 and move on with your work. Or build a darkroom. I did both!
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Old 12-14-2019   #36
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I have the same problem, but I care less about the DAM features than you.

I switched to Capture One a month or two ago, and have had some fairly serious problems with the types of operations I want to achieve, mostly related to the fact I shoot black and white film.

Firstly, Capture One is unable to edit the monochrome TIFF files I normally produce. I have had to switch to producing RGB TIFF files in order to edit the files in Capture One. Pathetic! Now my files are 3 times the size.

Secondly, the spot/heal capability in Capture One is not really up to the job of dealing with my negs. I've had to buy an additional program (Affinity) and use that to edit the files to remove hairs and dust from my negatives.

I frequently think about how great Lightroom is/was, but if I was to subscribe it would be through gritted teeth, so I'm going to persevere with Capture One. It's making me think about giving up film, to be honest.

On the bright side, images from my digital Leica seem to look better out of C1 than Lightroom.
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Old 12-14-2019   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveKodak View Post
LR was about $150-200 and was updated in a major way every 2 years or less.

PS was IIRC about $600-700 dollars and was updated every 2-3 years in a major way. (Most simply pirated it, some got it at EDU discounts).

So at the low end if you wanted both you'd be looking at a $750 dollar investment, but if you were ok with LR that was fine too, as it does most things. Except you're still shelling out $150-200 every couple years.

So over a 24mo period you're paying about $8.33 per month.

Compare that to now and you can get both LR and PS (and LRCC, and Portfolio, and a small suite of other apps you may find useful) for $9.99 a month.
As often as I was upgrading Lightroom, plus having Photoshop that isn't pirated (and would also need regular updating), I made the switch after 5.0 and haven't looked back. Financially it made sense despite me kicking and screaming at the beginning -- but it's worked very well. Still haven't tried the new Lightroom CC, preferring Classic.
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Old 12-14-2019   #38
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Originally Posted by wintoid View Post
I have the same problem, but I care less about the DAM features than you.

I switched to Capture One a month or two ago, and have had some fairly serious problems with the types of operations I want to achieve, mostly related to the fact I shoot black and white film.

Firstly, Capture One is unable to edit the monochrome TIFF files I normally produce. I have had to switch to producing RGB TIFF files in order to edit the files in Capture One. Pathetic! Now my files are 3 times the size.

Secondly, the spot/heal capability in Capture One is not really up to the job of dealing with my negs. I've had to buy an additional program (Affinity) and use that to edit the files to remove hairs and dust from my negatives.

I frequently think about how great Lightroom is/was, but if I was to subscribe it would be through gritted teeth, so I'm going to persevere with Capture One. It's making me think about giving up film, to be honest.

On the bright side, images from my digital Leica seem to look better out of C1 than Lightroom.
Yeah ... I stopped using the standalone version of LR about six months ago in anticipation of the eventual upgrade to the new MAC OS that will likely complain about that, and other software.

Presently, I scan all of my panchromatic negatives to 16-bit Greyscale for a variety of reasons, but I use Capture One for handling digital content that is produced by a Leica M 8.2. I also use Capture One to process any scans of color negatives. To handle both scans and DNGs I use Photo Mechanic as my front end. This is excellent software if you care about the consistency of your metadata, and is much preferred to Capture One's metadata handling.

I have been experimenting with Affinity for processing the DNG files and while it works, its overall color quality is somewhat lacking out of the box when compared to Capture One. I can achieve acceptable results, but it takes more time. One final advantage that I find with Affinity is its Soft Proofing capabilities which are helpful if you're preparing work for distribution to clients with ICC profiles, such as printers.
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Old 12-15-2019   #39
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Minor note:
Lightroom major updates after initial purchase never cost me more than US$80 every 12 to 18 months. Only one had serious, serious bugs on release, to the point where they withdrew it and re-released it. I started using Lightroom at the first Public Beta in 2006.

---
So, I've been through all of the foundation course videos for On1 Photo RAW 2020. The software impresses me in many ways, but irritates me in others. The courseware is not particularly good ... It has little sense, to me, of building on the fundamentals and expanding your understanding of 1) how the app operates and 2) how to use it effectively in a good workflow ... It's too much "Oh and you can do this this way and it's really cool" rather than "here's what this does, and after you do that try this or that to get to the next step..."

The toolset is scattered (literally) all around the UI and not organized in flow or order of use at all. I have spent a lot of time trying to remember which edge of the window to look at to find the next tool I need to use. Etc.

The long and the short of it is that I think it's a decent app but I'm not thrilled with the UI, the tutorials, or the workflow at all at this point. It's not by any means intuitive or simple to get a simple task done; it seems to make very different tasks a bit easier if you're willing to forgo actually understanding the details and just slap a "style" on then tweak that until you get something you like. But that's not the way I tend to work. I develop my own 'styles' from first rendering principles.

The long and the short of it is that while I don't think it was wasted money, it's not getting the job I need done. Time to move on to the next contender and see whether it does me better.

Meanwhile, I actually have a couple of projects that need to be done now. I guess I can use Lightroom Classic for a couple of months and see whether it still works the way I expect.

I actually enjoy the challenge of this, but there comes a point where I just want to my work done and stop futzing about with awkward tools. LR did that for me for a very long time.

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Old 02-02-2020   #40
Barry Kirsten
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I've been spending time with Darktable recently as a potential replacement for Lightroom. As others have pointed out, its learning curve is steep, but I've recently found an excellent series of more than 50 YouTube videos which reduces the learning pain: https://www.youtube.com/user/audio2u/videos I believe that Darktable is an excellent replacement for LR, and the best thing is that it's open source.
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