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Thinking of a Canon Eos film camera but need help
Old 03-07-2019   #1
CharlesDAMorgan
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Thinking of a Canon Eos film camera but need help

Some may say I'm beyond help, but here goes.

I have three gorgeous Zeiss Lenses in the Rollei QBM mount (35mm Distagon, 50mm 1.8 Planar and 85mm Sonnar), which I currently shoot with a Rolleiflex SL35. The metering in that is dead, and I prefer metered shooting with an SLR. So they rarely get used.

The QBM lenses can be converted to an EOS mount, which I think is probably sensible to do, but as a lifelong Nikon shooter I have no knowledge of the Canon EOS film range and wonder if people have a recommendation for an EOS film body which is reliable, not too big or heavy and reasonably inexpensive, plus able to focus manually easily via the viewfinder.

Help gratefully sought!
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #2
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There's only one [edit: small/cheap] Canon camera with traditional split prism viewfinder for strictly manual use of EF (and adapted) lenses, the Canon EF-M. It's about the size of the EOS 1000 (i.e. rather small-ish for an EOS). They are not the most frequent cameras to find but they come up from time to time. All other EOS cameras have viewfinders optimized for AF, so, not easy to work with manual lenses. Bearing that in mind, right now I'd look for a clean EOS 30/30v (7/7n in the US, I think) as it's one of the latest film EOS bodies and it's not too big. I have one and the only fault I find is hunting AF in very low light (other EOS bodies are better for that) but that's not going to be a problem with manual lenses.
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Last edited by telenous : 03-08-2019 at 03:11. Reason: additional info
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Old 03-08-2019   #3
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I find the RT is an interesting and almost unique model. Lighter than the 1-NRS which I wouldn't mind in some ways but given I almost never use my current EOS models, anyway, it seems redundant to consider one. I suppose there's a certain masochistic appeal in the thought of ripping through a 36 exposure roll in less than four seconds, I think I'd like to do that just once.

Of course the pellicle mirror models do sacrifice 2/3 stop of light to the film so for low light work (Eg.gigs) they're not the ultimate model, and the finders, whilst blocks (not streets, blocks) ahead of the original Pellix, are marginally dimmer than models with a conventional mirror.

For light and reasonably inexpensive something like a 3000, 3000N and so on is very hard to beat. They have pretty good meteringfor what they are but personally the plastic lens mount was always a real turn off. But models such as the EOS 600/630 (the model the RT was based on, which uses a conventional mirror), its predecessor the 620 which has a 1/4000 shutter & 1/250 sync or an EOS-1 for still reasonable money are all cameras with a lot of abiity and solid build.

These early models all have a lot going for them but you do need to watch the curtains for signs of black goo from deteriorated shutter bumpers. Can be cleaned off at home quite effectively but if left unchecked, eventually shutter accuracy will go AWOL. Plenty of info about it on the web.
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Old 03-08-2019   #4
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The EOS 1N with the Ec-B screen would give you a matte screen with microprism and split image. I used a couple of them in the early 1990's and they are solid cameras. Not so lightweight, but a great camera.
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Old 03-08-2019   #5
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Interesting. I'd forgotten about the EOS 1N w/ the split screen. (I edited my post above.)
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Old 03-08-2019   #6
CharlesDAMorgan
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Thank you very much - several choices to be found that should make life easier.
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #7
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-AF-Confir...sAAOSw8d9Uv5kk

EOS focus confirmation chips.
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Old 03-08-2019   #8
CharlesDAMorgan
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Thanks Ko.Fe - that gives another useful tool!

Apart from the top professional ones all the EOS seem to be inexpensive, very similar to the Nikon AF cameras. A good thing, but shows the bias towards manual cameras in todays market.
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #9
Peter Wijninga
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Have a look at the Canon EOS 3. I bought mine new many moons ago. A great 35mm AF camera. Still available on ebay for $ 200/300. A review here: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/film-bodies/eos-3.htm
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Old 03-08-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesDAMorgan View Post
Thanks Ko.Fe - that gives another useful tool!

Apart from the top professional ones all the EOS seem to be inexpensive, very similar to the Nikon AF cameras. A good thing, but shows the bias towards manual cameras in todays market.
Few years ago I purchased EOS3 for slightly above 200$, mint.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...EOS+3&_sacat=0


The only negative part of EOS AF system is batteries. Some of them are not sold in regular stores anymore and they are not cheap.

Great part, EOS AF lenses are not expensive.

Past summer I purchased 22-55 EF for 90CAD. With working Elan IIE attached to it.
Lens works fine even on digital cameras.
But camera batteries are something like 20$ each. And they were only available online.
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Old 03-08-2019   #11
Peter Wijninga
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The EOS 3 takes a lithium 2CR5 battery. $9,99 on BHPhoto.
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Old 03-08-2019   #12
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Not greatly expensive.

I'm hopeful if I'm not using AF I might get decent life out of one.

Right, now off on the hunt.
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #13
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A couple of things worth noting:
The Canon EF-M shares its name with the lens mount for the newer canon digital cameras, so that can be a bit confusing / frustrating. It was also technically never branded as an EOS camera, due to its inexpensive manual focus nature. And also, like many other cameras of the era, it takes photo batteries which may not be the easiest to find.

EDIT: If you are interested in flash photography, this does not support the Canon TTL standard of the time, but had its own dedicated flash unit, which is not the easiest to find.
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Old 03-08-2019   #14
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Thanks - in all honesty I use flash about once in a blue moon, so it would not be an issue.

I'd noted the lens confusion too, but searching is relatively straightforward on ebay if one excludes new lenses.
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #15
Peter Wijninga
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I have the flash for the EOS 3 and I remember I paid a lot of money for it.
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Old 03-08-2019   #16
Steve M.
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You might want to delve into researching how the camera will meter w/ a non EOS lens that lacks the electrical contacts (unless your adapters have that). I explored this issue years ago and remember that some EOS film cameras would not meter accurately w/ manual focus, non chipped lenses. That was a long time ago though, so maybe there's been some changes since then w/ adapters.

Here's some interesting info on EOS film bodies below.

http://www.everyothershot.com/a-hips...-film-cameras/
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Old 03-08-2019   #17
CharlesDAMorgan
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Thanks Steve - very useful advice and great link!
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #18
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An extremely wet walk to the local camera shop revealed a cabinet of inexpensive EOS film cameras. Russell, the owner, like me a Nikon shooter let me just play away. Once I twigged that using the zoom was the reason images weren't coming in to focus, I was very impressed with the EOS650 he had - nice bright viewfinder which made focus very straightforward. Plus good size in the hand, not heavy and inexpensive complete with 35-70 kit zoom. So bought that as an inexpensive way to try it all out.

Now to explore the adapters.
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesDAMorgan View Post
An extremely wet walk to the local camera shop revealed a cabinet of inexpensive EOS film cameras. Russell, the owner, like me a Nikon shooter let me just play away. Once I twigged that using the zoom was the reason images weren't coming in to focus, I was very impressed with the EOS650 he had - nice bright viewfinder which made focus very straightforward. Plus good size in the hand, not heavy and inexpensive complete with 35-70 kit zoom. So bought that as an inexpensive way to try it all out.

Now to explore the adapters.
just make sure no stickiness dark areas on the shutter as they are awful for failing shutters caused by foam bumpers breaking down and turning into stick goo. What makes it worse is the shutter sounds like its still working. On a positive note I have several 600s, 630s and 650s and I think they are great and super cheap!
Enjoy!!!!
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Old 03-08-2019   #20
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Thanks Fraser, I've checked the shutter blades and it's clear but he has a spare one (and a good reputation for fixing things if required) so I'll monitor it carefully.
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #21
p.giannakis
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I have been a long term Canon user and i have used the following cameras
EOS 500/n x2
EOS 1000FN
EOS 630 x2
EOS 10 and 100
EOS 5 x3
EOS 50
EOS 1n RS
EOS 300 x2
EOS 3000v



I would avoid any model before the EOS 5 like the plague - Sticky shutters.

The exotic EOS 1n RS left me unimpressed. Huge and loud. Squinty and dark viewfinder. I sold it.


The EOS 50 was alright. Never tried the EOS 30 but they say it is good.


This leaves you with either the EOS 5 or the EOS 3000v. Want cheap and small - try the 3000v. The EOS 5 is my personal best - i sold the EOS 1n and kept the 5. Deadly silent - always delivered.
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Old 03-08-2019   #22
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Thanks Pan, he had an EOS3000 in the shop which I found too small for my plates of meat, and I found it rather awkward.

I'll see how I get on with the Eos650 and if it develops issues it's a bangernomics purchase so little to lose. He also had an EOS55 which was large. I suppose I'm really after the Goldilocks version...
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #23
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Stucky shutters is the problem which has simple solution. I googled it and fixed my Elan IIe
And today I ordered rechargeable batteries for EOS 300 .
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Old 03-08-2019   #24
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Your 650 is the granddaddy of all the EOS film and digital models—it is the very first of a long line and the one which debuted the EF lens mount on its release in 1986. If the shutter blades are clean it should be fine, just be in the habit of giving them a check every now and then depending on how much and how often you re-load it.
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Old 03-08-2019   #25
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Quote:
I have three gorgeous Zeiss Lenses in the Rollei QBM mount (35mm Distagon, 50mm 1.8 Planar and 85mm Sonnar), which I currently shoot with a Rolleiflex SL35. The metering in that is dead, and I prefer metered shooting with an SLR. So they rarely get used.
I know that is not what you asked, but why don't you buy a Rollei SL35(M) or Voigtlander VSL3E. The cost is peanuts compared with the value of your trio of lenses. In-body metering, clean lines. So cheap you might even have two just in case.
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Old 03-08-2019   #26
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A good question, but I tried that with a Voigtlander VSL (1 or 2 - I'm away from home at present) and while the lenses should fit, the early Zeiss made and branded QBM lenses actually don't mount at all well to the camera - the mounts are subtly different enough. The later Rollei ones do - so as a body it would not work with the Sonnar and the Distagon I have. Which is a shame.

The irony of course is that the Canon's autofocus is incredibly fast - with the kit 35-70 it came with - so much so it beats the pants off the Nikon F90X and F80 I have and is considerably more accurate. I don't use AF much, but when I do I want what the Canon offers. So I shall be mounting manual lenses on it...
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-08-2019   #27
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Originally Posted by CharlesDAMorgan View Post
A good question, but I tried that with a Voigtlander VSL (1 or 2 - I'm away from home at present) and while the lenses should fit, the early Zeiss made and branded QBM lenses actually don't mount at all well to the camera - the mounts are subtly different enough. The later Rollei ones do - so as a body it would not work with the Sonnar and the Distagon I have. Which is a shame.

The irony of course is that the Canon's autofocus is incredibly fast - with the kit 35-70 it came with - so much so it beats the pants off the Nikon F90X and F80 I have and is considerably more accurate. I don't use AF much, but when I do I want what the Canon offers. So I shall be mounting manual lenses on it...
If you like the 650 autofocus you'd love the 600/630 then. Owning 650, 620, 630 & RT models concurrently for some years the 630 is faster as, indeed Canon claimed when it was released. I expect the 1 series were faster again but you have a preference for lighter bodies, so...
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Old 03-08-2019   #28
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Thanks Brett. I feel the beginnings of a wormhole opening up here...
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-09-2019   #29
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Just to let you know, the A2/A2E/EOS 5 model cameras were noted to have a fragile mode dial. I owned two of them and the dials broke on both despite treating them gently. They were very good, lightweight, reliable cameras otherwise but it may be hard to get parts to repair them these days and you will need to repair that dial eventually.

The EOS 1n was my favorite film Canon. Reliable to a fault and tough as a hockey puck with excellent AF. It's heavy since the plastic is only a body covering, like paint. The actual body is metal and it's built strong for longterm functioning. At one time these second hand cameras were found cheap but I'm sure they cost more these days.
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Old 03-09-2019   #30
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How funny - the camera shop had an Eos 5 in there with a broken dial - hence why we didn't bother to look.

Prices have definitely risen, but it's very much the case that big make AF film cameras seem to attract less of a premium. If Minolta AF had a mount for the Rollei lenses I would have been in bargain basement territory.
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-09-2019   #31
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The broken dial fault with the EOS 5 is not an issue.
All early EOS 5 had so badly designed dials that would break within 6 months. The problem occured when you tried to move the dial from the locked to any other position without pressing the lock button.

My newly bought EOS 5 had to be repaired by canon within the few first month's since I had it. Unfortunately mine was a grey import model so no warranty on it.

The canon repair man said that there is no way that any early production EOS 5 will survive the broken dial. But all repairs or newer EOS 5 are coming with a redesigned dial that is far more robust to break
True, mine was repaired in 1997 and works fine.

So bottom line. If a dial is broken, don't buy it. If it is working, it is repaired and reliable.
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Old 03-09-2019   #32
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The Canon EOS A2 and its siblings A2e and EOS-5 were all-time great sleepers and were one of the best-kept secrets in photography. When first introduced they were nearly ten years ahead of the competition and were used by an astonishing number of working photographers. The A2's combination of just the right features, precision, silence, durability, and reliability made it one of the best cameras ever for day-in, day-out professional work.

I used a pair for eight years before the great digital switch, and they were utterly reliable. My A2s were responsible for an award-winning coffee-table book, numerous brochures, magazine articles, weddings, and all the other things in the work flow of a small-market commercial/editorial photographer. Yet, they are now dirt cheap.

I should mention that split-image viewing screens are available from B&H, and also, of course, eBay.

I gave one of mine to a friend. The other sits in honored retirement on my bookshelf in memory of some good times in my career.
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Old 03-09-2019   #33
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The only niggle I have with my EOS 600 is that the focusing screen is unusually hard to clean. Had to do 99% isopropyl alcohol in a jar sitting in an ultrasonic bath to get it close to dust free.

Aside from that, these early EOS cameras are some of the last cheap thrills left on the market.
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Old 03-09-2019   #34
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Thanks Dave - great to hear that they inspire real passion and the screens can be changed. I prefer split prism for manual focussing, but given the cameras I manage to get in focus, I may not need one!

I'll see how my adventure goes but it does sound like the EOS5 and siblings is the upgrade choice.
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-10-2019   #35
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Taken the plunge and bought an EOS5 in good working conditon (if not, return to sender) to see how it works out.

At 40 including shipping, strap and battery, I'm really worried about my financial commitment here...
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-10-2019   #36
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The EOS 5 is canon's F90x. It is the most silent EOS I know and AF is in par with the EOS 1nRS I owned. The viewfinder is also big and bright, I easily focus my zuiko lenses on it.

Just remember to press the lock button when whiching from lock to any other position and you will not be disappointed.
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Old 03-10-2019   #37
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It's funny, I love my F90X as much as any Nikon camera I've owned, but the grip sits badly in my hand so is rarely used. I consider the AF on the 650 to be quicker than the F90 though, so we'll see how I get on.

Thanks to all for their help and advice!
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-10-2019   #38
Fraser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesDAMorgan View Post
Thanks Dave - great to hear that they inspire real passion and the screens can be changed. I prefer split prism for manual focussing, but given the cameras I manage to get in focus, I may not need one!

I'll see how my adventure goes but it does sound like the EOS5 and siblings is the upgrade choice.
The 5 is my favourite one and I've pretty much used them all and still have a couple of 1vs, except for the eye focus which is a bit of a gimmick if you ask me but its easily ignored!
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Old 03-10-2019   #39
CharlesDAMorgan
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Research indicates I can get adapters to fit Nikon F mount, M42 and Leica R mount lenses among others. If this works out, I may have found a SLR system that removes the requirement for most of my camera bodies. Just at present I'll steer clear of buying lots of Canon glass, the bank account is in dire need of replenishment!
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Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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Old 03-11-2019   #40
telenous
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I have the EOS 5/A2 and indeed it is the best optimised EOS save for the unfortunate programme dial. I think I've read in the past of at least two Magnum photographers using one, when the camera was current. Mine was a gift from a friend who used it lightly from new, which is how I also used it from the moment it fell on my lap. After a few years of use the dial did brake. First it lost the detents (but still selected the intended programme) and after some time, perhaps a couple of years, it started freewheeling without selecting/changing programme. I most definitely used the lock button at all times and without exception (I was aware of the problem), so the problem did not occur out of misuse. I believe it's still possible to make a repair, but the cost is probably more than buying a replacement camera. It may still be worth it because it's a good camera, I just have not gone through with it yet. If you find one that had the repair already, then it probably has quite some time before the problem reoccurs. If it hasn't, it's really a coin toss.

I replaced the EOS 5 with the EOS 30v which, being a newer camera, still has a few years of life in it. It is not a better camera, it just has some later features while skipping some of the things that made the EOS 5 great, for example, the brilliant IR AF assist light. To get around the lacklustre low light performance of the EOS 30 I use an ST-E2 AF assist. I also really like the EOS 100/Elan, though I can't really recommend it, because of the sticky gloop that eventually kills the shutter. But it's a camera that works for me (when it does) and it's really cheap as chips.

EOS cameras readily accept adapted lenses -- M42, R, F, C/Y and so on. Before the advent of mirrorless it was the obvious choice for adapted lenses. But you do have to use them in stop-down mode and, usually, with viewfinders optimised for AF rather than manual. (Not that much fun, as far as I am concerned.) I've never used an AF-confirm adapter so can't comment on those.
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