Old 12-14-2018   #41
johannielscom
Ich bin ein Barnacker
 
johannielscom's Avatar
 
johannielscom is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Universitas Terre Threntiae
Posts: 7,345
US 750 for a non-working Leica M2 is now a good price...
At those prices I'm not touching M Leicas or the digital stuff ever again I guess.

Sticking to my two old screw mounts!
__________________
Gegroet,
Johan Niels

I write vintage gear reviews on www.johanniels.com |

flickr | instagram |
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #42
bhop73
Registered User
 
bhop73's Avatar
 
bhop73 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 704
I think if the cla is reasonable, and works without extra parts costs, then $750 isn't too bad for the cosmetic condition it's in. I paid $800 for mine, bought from Sherry Krauter, and she told me it was cla'd a couple months before, but mine's a "user" with some dings and scratches, and doesn't look as clean as this one. (I actually like it that way though)
__________________
my flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #43
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveler_101 View Post
All this assumes that the problem can be fixed by a simple CLA. Is that necessarily true? Perhaps there is something more serious wrong.

As for price: prices are lower in the U.S. across the board so I don't think a comparison with the UK is necessarily relevant.

$750 for a camera that doesn't work is pretty high. The seller got away with robbery...
Hi,

I don't think I've ever recommended a CLA because - and I have bills to prove it going back 30 or 40 years - you never can tell what the problem is until an expert has got his or her hands on it.

As for prices, I was looking at prices in Europe to cover the reasonable dealers and so on. Others seem to think it OK for an M...

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #44
traveler_101
American abroad
 
traveler_101 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhop73 View Post
I think if the cla is reasonable, and works without extra parts costs, then $750 isn't too bad for the cosmetic condition it's in. I paid $800 for mine, bought from Sherry Krauter, and she told me it was cla'd a couple months before, but mine's a "user" with some dings and scratches, and doesn't look as clean as this one. (I actually like it that way though)
Ok, that's a lot of money for an old camera, but it works! . . . And you had an expert who had put it into shape. I think I might well spend $800 for that - who cares about some scuffs and dings. I just don't like the idea of putting out good money for something that doesn't work and might be a bottomless money pit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hi,
I don't think I've ever recommended a CLA because - and I have bills to prove it going back 30 or 40 years - you never can tell what the problem is until an expert has got his or her hands on it.
Not sure if I am reading you correctly, but perhaps you mean that a CLA becomes a fishing expedition to find problems, or the mechanic is honest but there are just a lot of problems with the camera. The end result in either case: the victim gets a $500 bill and maybe the problem isn't even fixed. I've just read too many of these nightmare stories about problems that never get solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannielscom View Post
US 750 for a non-working Leica M2 is now a good price...
At those prices I'm not touching M Leicas or the digital stuff ever again I guess. Sticking to my two old screw mounts!
I hear you. I have a IIIf and a Bessa-R myself and both are reliable (at least this far), but now I am thinking I would like a M2, but I need to find one that is in working order.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #45
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveler_101 View Post
...Not sure if I am reading you correctly, but perhaps you mean that a CLA becomes a fishing expedition to find problems, or the mechanic is honest but there are just a lot of problems with the camera. The end result in either case: the victim gets a $500 bill and maybe the problem isn't even fixed. I've just read too many of these nightmare stories about problems that never get solved.
Hi,

Well, a lot of of cameras need parts repaired and replaced (and sometimes supplied and fitted). Also I have noticed a lot of moans about CLA's that suggest it was a squirt of WD40 and nothing else...

So I usually suggest giving it to an expert and asking them to sort the thing out and return to the original specification. Although that may not be possible if there are dents and cosmetic wear.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #46
bhop73
Registered User
 
bhop73's Avatar
 
bhop73 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveler_101 View Post
Ok, that's a lot of money for an old camera, but it works! . . . And you had an expert who had put it into shape. I think I might well spend $800 for that - who cares about some scuffs and dings. I just don't like the idea of putting out good money for something that doesn't work and might be a bottomless money pit.
Once Leicas are working, I don't think they're money pits, they're pretty reliable. The problem with yours is you don't know what happened to it before you owned it.

If you do get it cla'd and decide you don't want it, you can probably still make a profit as long as you show the cla receipt. I'd just use it and keep it for life myself..
__________________
my flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #47
traveler_101
American abroad
 
traveler_101 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhop73 View Post
Once Leicas are working, I don't think they're money pits, they're pretty reliable. The problem with yours is you don't know what happened to it before you owned it.

If you do get it cla'd and decide you don't want it, you can probably still make a profit as long as you show the cla receipt. I'd just use it and keep it for life myself..
It's not mine; I'm not the OP. I weighed in because I am thinking - once again - of acquiring a M2. One of the reasons I've been hesitant in the past is the question of repair cost. My understanding is exactly as you say: once working, they're probably reliable. The issue is how to get a good user to begin with.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #48
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,322
When sellers say "recent CLA", it usually means that they wiped it down with a cloth.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #49
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,322
I agree that $750 plus costs for a CLA (around $300) is normal now. After that it should work for decades, so in the end it really doesn't matter if it costs a few hundred $$ more or less.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #50
bhop73
Registered User
 
bhop73's Avatar
 
bhop73 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveler_101 View Post
It's not mine; I'm not the OP. I weighed in because I am thinking - once again - of acquiring a M2. One of the reasons I've been hesitant in the past is the question of repair cost. My understanding is exactly as you say: once working, they're probably reliable. The issue is how to get a good user to begin with.
Ah, my bad. Yeah, getting one can be a gamble, unless you check them in person. I've bought both my Ms online, so I guess i've been lucky. I think the classifieds here are a good start since it's all members that probably care about these things.
__________________
my flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #51
xasthur
Registered User
 
xasthur is offline
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Long Beach CA.
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhop73 View Post
Ah, my bad. Yeah, getting one can be a gamble, unless you check them in person. I've bought both my Ms online, so I guess i've been lucky. I think the classifieds here are a good start since it's all members that probably care about these things.
Fortunately I was able to check the camera in person. Unfortunately I didn't check every single shutter speeds and paid the price. It's okay because the person who sold it to me and then refused to give me the CLA receipt and or refund is always at the monthly camera show. The next show I will getting in contact with the person who runs it and explain and show the evidence I have to him about my transaction with this person/vendor and how I was deceived by him continuing to mention the camera was CLA'd.

I've contacted YYE and he mentioned the camera can be fixed and the little tiny screw I found which I showed him is the preview lever bar
tension and mentioned it's cheap to replace.

So how it works is I would send the camera to him first, he would receive it, fix the problems and then bill me accordingly?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-14-2018   #52
rfaspen
Registered User
 
rfaspen's Avatar
 
rfaspen is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 1,670
Hmm. I will be the one to be frank.

You got taken by a dishonest person. I would be fuming at the seams.

The price you paid ($750) is fair for a fully working, nice condition M2 (as in it had a CLA or otherwise in perfect working order). To put all in perspective, I still buy fully working M2 bodies in the 600-700 range. A couple recent offerings here on RFF classifieds were perfectly working M bodies in the $700-800 range (yes, they were "users" but pretty nice users). Don't look to ebay for actual value of much (unless you know how to evaluate the actual market there, not everyone does and it still sometimes misses reality).

Your M2 needs a service (not necessarily just a CLA) from an actual competent Leica tech. There are many camera techs out there, but not all are ready to service your Leica as it needs to be. I'm biased and I use Don Goldberg (DAG Camera Repair). You have already heard of some others here at RFF. My experience with YY was OK, but DAG has been stellar. I don't have experience with any other techs. Regardless of what we suggest, you will want to use someone other than the corner repair shop. Someone competent!

Even though you have been scammed by a crook, it might be just as well to get the camera fixed (by a genuine tech). It will put your overall cost above what you should have paid, but after a true service from someone like Don (DAG Camera Repair) you will have a camera that will last the rest of your lifetime. It is a nice thing to do for the camera as well...the last guy was not worthy It sounds like you might be the kind of person who will keep the camera and actually use it on a regular (daily?) basis. If that's true, the higher cost of your camera after service will dissipate over time.

I'm really sorry about your experience. Personally, I would be quite bitter and vengeful. However, don't take it out on the camera. If you can warn others to be wary of this dishonest seller, that could be useful, but be careful not to go as far as slander. Again, I would be very bitter, so that's hard advice to follow. Even if its my own.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-15-2018   #53
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by xasthur View Post
Fortunately I was able to check the camera in person. Unfortunately I didn't check every single shutter speeds and paid the price. It's okay because the person who sold it to me and then refused to give me the CLA receipt and or refund is always at the monthly camera show. The next show I will getting in contact with the person who runs it and explain and show the evidence I have to him about my transaction with this person/vendor and how I was deceived by him continuing to mention the camera was CLA'd.

I've contacted YYE and he mentioned the camera can be fixed and the little tiny screw I found which I showed him is the preview lever bar
tension and mentioned it's cheap to replace.

So how it works is I would send the camera to him first, he would receive it, fix the problems and then bill me accordingly?
If you have any suggestions about how any technician might (a) reasonably fix a camera if they're not actually proximate to it and (b) charge you appropriately for their repairs, if they don't know what the scope of those repairs might be, in the first place (see (a)), then, I would be very interested to hear them.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-15-2018   #54
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,344
The one and only way to get a Leica M2 is to go to a dealer with a good reputation and pay for one. The good dealers guarantee the things and a roll of film and a bit of cash and time will soon tell you if it works OK. Just don't expect it to be 100% OK because the only acid test for a camera is a couple of rolls of film and doing that to cover everything is very time consuming and you'd have to pay for it; so best to test it yourself and accept a slight risk for the first time you use it...


Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-15-2018   #55
xasthur
Registered User
 
xasthur is offline
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Long Beach CA.
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
Even though you have been scammed by a crook, it might be just as well to get the camera fixed (by a genuine tech). It will put your overall cost above what you should have paid, but after a true service from someone like Don (DAG Camera Repair) you will have a camera that will last the rest of your lifetime. It is a nice thing to do for the camera as well...the last guy was not worthy It sounds like you might be the kind of person who will keep the camera and actually use it on a regular (daily?) basis. If that's true, the higher cost of your camera after service will dissipate over time.

I'm really sorry about your experience. Personally, I would be quite bitter and vengeful. However, don't take it out on the camera. If you can warn others to be wary of this dishonest seller, that could be useful, but be careful not to go as far as slander. Again, I would be very bitter, so that's hard advice to follow. Even if its my own.
Yeah, I will be sending it off to be worked on next week so I'm pretty excited about that. Also, yes this will be my daily camera I take everywhere with me so a good CLA will bring it back to life for me for hopefully a long time. I just need to find a diopter to help me see the 35mm framelines as I wear glasses and currently cannot see them.

Oh don't be mistaken I was filled with rage when I got those negatives back but as the anger subsided and I came back to my senses I accepted the situation for what it is and will talk to the owner of the show about that specific vendor and what happen and have him deal with it.

If anything I learned some lessons for any future purchases I make.

I just can't wait to get back into the street and start my photojournalism journey with my camera.

I also need to find a nice 35mm or 28mm M mount lens which wont break my bank.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2018   #56
xasthur
Registered User
 
xasthur is offline
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Long Beach CA.
Posts: 62
I figured I would update this post one more time with what I ended up doing. I took the camera to Steve's camera and they told me that i would need to replace both curtains and the total cost would be $750 which there's no way I'm paying that much for a repair since that's how much I bought the camera for.

So i then take it to the man who the seller original told CLA'd it since he told me that if i don't get a refund just bring it to him and he will check it out for me. So i did and i hand him the camera and he immediately says oh wow.. I would never give a customer a camera in this condition if I CLA'D it. He then tells me that he doesn't think it was ever worked on.

So he says okay.. this is what I can do for you, since you're being screwed here. Normally i will charge 250 for a CLA but i will offer you a "special price" a $100 dollars and clean and adjust everything. So i say wow you got a deal. He tells me it will be done in about 5 days. 2 days later he calls me and tells me the camera is ready. I go to pick it up and wow what a difference!! The viewfinder is so clear, the advance lever is so smooth and a lot easier to advance. The biggest surprise for me is how much more quieter the shutter is, I couldn't believe it! All the higher speeds work great now and it feels like a completely different camera!

Before i went to him i was nervous because no one on these forums know who he is so i was hesitant. When i entered the store there are hundreds of not thousands of cameras everywhere. It looks like he's been there for 40 years. In the end I'm glad I went with him. He restored a little bit of my faith in humanity lol.

If you're curious and need a camera repaired his name is Mr Phong and his store name is Canada camera repair in Los Angeles.

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2018   #57
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,201
Canada camera repair? Good to know. Glad this worked out for you.
I've had interesting experiences with Steve's Camera Repair. Almost like Jekyll and Hyde.
They fixed a Rolleiflex 2.8GX that no-one else would touch - including Harry Fleenor - for about $200. Fantastic. But then they do stuff like your Leica quote...
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-20-2018   #58
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,117
Great turn out!

I would say you got a little lucky there!

I’ve heard of Mr Phong and Canada Camera Repair (all the way here in Michigan) I believe there is an article or video interview of him including his work bench floating around the inter web somewhere.

Heck of a deal on service from a OG! He clearly did not want his name drug down by this nefarious vendor!

Best of luck with your new rig!
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-22-2018   #59
traveler_101
American abroad
 
traveler_101 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 1,019
Mr Phong @ Canada Camera - looks like a cool place, Thanks for posting

https://www.yelp.com/biz/canada-came...ces-montebello
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-22-2018   #60
rfaspen
Registered User
 
rfaspen's Avatar
 
rfaspen is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 1,670
OK.
A big thumbs up for the repair guy (Canada Camera Repair).

A giant thumb in the *** for the seller at that camera show. To say he was dishonest or unethical is to but it mildly. I would be seeking to end his particpation at this camera show -- at the least.

As for your camera. I find it odd Steve's suggested replacement of both curtains...nothing else? Hmm. I had the suspicion that your camera needed some deep service, but not that much. Anyway, I'm very very happy about this outcome.

Enjoy!!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2018   #61
xasthur
Registered User
 
xasthur is offline
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Long Beach CA.
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
OK.
A big thumbs up for the repair guy (Canada Camera Repair).

A giant thumb in the *** for the seller at that camera show. To say he was dishonest or unethical is to but it mildly. I would be seeking to end his particpation at this camera show -- at the least.

As for your camera. I find it odd Steve's suggested replacement of both curtains...nothing else? Hmm. I had the suspicion that your camera needed some deep service, but not that much. Anyway, I'm very very happy about this outcome.

Enjoy!!!
Haha yeah don't worry, I will be speaking with the man who runs the show when the next show occurs to inform him of that seller.

Yeah when I showed up to to Steve's repair a younger man came out and greeted me. I told him the story of what was happening and then I let him check out the camera. He took it in the back for a few seconds and then came out and told me that both curtains would need to be replaced as they are dried up. When I heard him say that I knew a huge price was gonna be recommended and that I was gonna be leaving that place, and I was correct. Now I know I'm not a experienced repair man but, I was looking at the curtains for days before taking it to Steve's and the last thing I assumed about the curtains is that they were dried out..

If I'm being honest I got the feeling that they didn't give the camera a proper inspection. In my opinion I think they just saw the curtain is a little rough for wear and just said the hell with it lets just replace both.

Don't get me wrong the people were nice and Steve did come out and mess with the camera for a few seconds but didn't say much about it and said it needs new curtains. They actually recommended I sell the camera for anything I could get back.

I'm glad I got a second opinion!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2018   #62
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,103
Awesome name of the Store.

I'm slow here. What happened with curtains? Where they also replaced under 100$ special?
Or they needs no replacement? In any way, this steve boy is thief. Looks like he does nothing, but sends it to Canada guy and adds double.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2018   #63
xasthur
Registered User
 
xasthur is offline
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Long Beach CA.
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Awesome name of the Store.

I'm slow here. What happened with curtains? Where they also replaced under 100$ special?
Or they needs no replacement? In any way, this steve boy is thief. Looks like he does nothing, but sends it to Canada guy and adds double.
They were not replaced. Mr Phong simply removed the old dried grease and added new grease, then adjusted the timing of the curtains so the higher speeds were correct.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2019   #64
Ambro51
Registered User
 
Ambro51's Avatar
 
Ambro51 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 108
In the meantime shoot 25 ISO film and your 1/125 will be plenty.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2019   #65
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by xasthur View Post
I figured I would update this post one more time with what I ended up doing. I took the camera to Steve's camera and they told me that i would need to replace both curtains and the total cost would be $750 which there's no way I'm paying that much for a repair since that's how much I bought the camera for.

So i then take it to the man who the seller original told CLA'd it since he told me that if i don't get a refund just bring it to him and he will check it out for me. So i did and i hand him the camera and he immediately says oh wow.. I would never give a customer a camera in this condition if I CLA'D it. He then tells me that he doesn't think it was ever worked on.

So he says okay.. this is what I can do for you, since you're being screwed here. Normally i will charge 250 for a CLA but i will offer you a "special price" a $100 dollars and clean and adjust everything. So i say wow you got a deal. He tells me it will be done in about 5 days. 2 days later he calls me and tells me the camera is ready. I go to pick it up and wow what a difference!! The viewfinder is so clear, the advance lever is so smooth and a lot easier to advance. The biggest surprise for me is how much more quieter the shutter is, I couldn't believe it! All the higher speeds work great now and it feels like a completely different camera!

Before i went to him i was nervous because no one on these forums know who he is so i was hesitant. When i entered the store there are hundreds of not thousands of cameras everywhere. It looks like he's been there for 40 years. In the end I'm glad I went with him. He restored a little bit of my faith in humanity lol.

If you're curious and need a camera repaired his name is Mr Phong and his store name is Canada camera repair in Los Angeles.

I'm pleased to hear it worked out this well for you in the end. Good on you for passing on the details of the person who was so kind and helpful. We usually hear about problems with various repairers but it is important to know when someone has gone the extra mile too, I think. I hope the M2 gives you many years of happy shooting.
Cheers,
Brett
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 00:18.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.