Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Coffee With Mentors > Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book

Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book

Roger Hicks is a well known photographic writer, author of The Rangefinder Book, over three dozen other photographic books, and a frequent contributor to Shutterbug and Amateur Photographer. Unusually in today's photographic world, most of his camera reviews are film cameras, especially rangefinders. See www.rogerandfrances.com for further background (Frances is his wife Frances Schultz, acknowledged darkroom addict and fellow Shutterbug contributor) .


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

«The XXX Exposure Meter is Cross-Coupled ...»
Old 12-28-2018   #1
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
«The XXX Exposure Meter is Cross-Coupled ...»

Of course I know that the Kodak Retina IIIS was a very early specimen offering cross-coupled exposure metering, and it was certainly one of the very few true system CRF cameras having that feature; certainly also the Nikon F was an early implementer —— albeit in the latter case with «Exakta-like crudity», if I recall your words correctly, dear Roger

Thus ... my question is, dear Roger, and dear all:

Who exactly did enable cross-coupled exposure metering in 35mm still cameras equipped with fully interchangeable objectives, and when exactly?

(I do have a certain suspicion who the person in question was, but I'm not absolutely sure...)
__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-28-2018   #2
johnf04
Registered User
 
johnf04 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Age: 68
Posts: 366
Agfaflex slrs from the late 1950s had cross coupled metering, although it was not TTL, and had a readout on the camera top.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-28-2018   #3
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,636
Sorry, what do you mean by cross-coupled? Some earlier cameras would have uncoupled meters fitted, eventually connecting them to shutter and/or aperture was implemented. Cross-coupled, isn't a term I am particularly familiar with.

The original Contaflex Super was another 1950s SLR with coupled non-TTL selenium meter as was the Voigtländer Bessamatic.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-28-2018   #4
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcophilus Harrisii View Post
Sorry, what do you mean by cross-coupled?
Exactly this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcophilus Harrisii View Post
Some earlier cameras would have uncoupled meters fitted, eventually connecting them to shutter and/or aperture was implemented. Cross-coupled, isn't a term I am particularly familiar with.

The original Contaflex Super was another 1950s SLR with coupled non-TTL selenium meter as was the Voigtländer Bessamatic.
You're right, the term "crosscoupling" is actually organic chemistry, in English; later, the term appears in many camera manuals (e.g. Leicaflex).
-- I presume, initially the term may have been a mirror translation, and they perhaps weren't aware that it already had a very distinct meaning in English organic chemistry parlance... or they used it deliberately, like a pun?

I guess "fully coupled" is an alternative term?
__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #5
Kai-san
Filmwaster
 
Kai-san's Avatar
 
Kai-san is offline
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Norge
Posts: 124
I believe the most common terms in use are coupled and uncoupled. These should also be the easiest to understand.
__________________
Kai
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #6
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai-san View Post
I believe the most common terms in use are coupled and uncoupled. These should also be the easiest to understand.
You're right, but: the dichotomy "coupled" vs. "uncoupled" is imprecise.

If the exposure meter is coupled to the shutter speed, but not coupled to the diaphragm, one is in a dilemma -- is it coupled, or uncoupled?

"Fully coupled" or "cross-coupled" makes it clear that the meter has to be coupled to the diaphragm-adjusting member *and* to the shutter speed-adjusting member.

BTW, on camera-wiki.org they use the term "cross-coupled" quite regularly, e.g.:

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Minolta_Minoltina_AL-S
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Minolta_Minoltina-P
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Konica_FM
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Konica_F
__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #7
Kai-san
Filmwaster
 
Kai-san's Avatar
 
Kai-san is offline
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Norge
Posts: 124
I would say that if the meter controls either shutter, aperture or both, then it is coupled. If the meter controls the shutter, it is an aperture priority camera. If the meter controls the aperture you have a shutter priority camera. In more modern cameras where it can control both, you either switch between aperture or shutter priority and/or you have a programmed auto mode.

But the word cross-coupled will not tell me whether a camera has several metering modes or if it's auto only. That's why I think it's more confusing than helpful. But that's only my personal view on the matter.
__________________
Kai
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #8
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai-san View Post
I would say that if the meter controls either shutter, aperture or both, then it is coupled. If the meter controls the shutter, it is an aperture priority camera. If the meter controls the aperture you have a shutter priority camera. In more modern cameras where it can control both, you either switch between aperture or shutter priority and/or you have a programmed auto mode.

But the word cross-coupled will not tell me whether a camera has several metering modes or if it's auto only. That's why I think it's more confusing than helpful. But that's only my personal view on the matter.
Well, e.g. Roger Hicks uses the term "cross-coupled" in his books; and it was also Nikon's terminology at least during the 1960s:

__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #9
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
Additions re terminology:

Also Yashica were calling their exposure meter "cross-coupled":
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00812/00812.pdf

Re Nikon, also after the 1960s they were using this term; for example, see https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photograph.../fmfefa/fm.pdf

—— on p. 22:
«EXPOSURE MEASUREMENT
The Nikon FM’s built-in exposure meter utilizes Nikon’s
proven center-weighted through-the-lens metering system
which is cross-coupled with both the shutter speed control of
the camera and the aperture control of the lens mounted on
the camera. [...]»

—— on p. 34:
«Exposure metering: Through-the-lens, center-weighted, full
aperture exposure measurement with Nikkor lenses fitted with
meter coupling ridge; stop-down exposure measurement ap-
plies for other lenses; exposure correctly set by adjusting
shutter speed and/or lens aperture until correct exposure in-
dicator LED lights up; meter cross-coupled with both lens
diaphragm and shutter speed controls; metering range EV 1
to EV 1 8 (i.e., f/1.4,1 sec. ~ f/16,1/1000 sec.) with 50mm f/
1.4 lens at ASA 100; built-in meter coupling lever can be
locked up, enabling use with both Al-type and non-AI-type
Nikkor lenses; ASA range 12 ~ 3200; [...]»
__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #10
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,339
I thought you were talking about the LVS system, in which you set exposure, then if you change aperture or shutter-speed, the other changes correspondingly to hold exposure constant.

I thought the IIIs implementation of this idea a PITA.
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #11
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
I thought you were talking about the LVS system, in which you set exposure, then if you change aperture or shutter-speed, the other changes correspondingly to hold exposure constant.

I thought the IIIs implementation of this idea a PITA.
To an extent, I agree with you: the elaborated cases of LVS/EVS are of course cross-coupled in the beforementioned sense; the Kodak Retina IIIS at least doesn't use the terms LVS/EVS, but in a nutshell, it probably belongs to that group. —— Anyways, with the bottom wheel there's a simple override possible, I'd say?

Indeed, "cross-coupled" exposure meters are not necessarily of the LVS/EVS type; see the examples of Leicaflex, Nikon, Yashica, and so forth.
__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #12
markjwyatt
Registered User
 
markjwyatt's Avatar
 
markjwyatt is offline
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Southern California
Posts: 590
bad information
__________________
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/markjwyatt/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #13
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjwyatt View Post
bad information


You speak in riddles...
__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2018   #14
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
One hint I might add:

US patent 2,929,308 ...
__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:49.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.