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love and loathe... Would I be crazy to
Old 06-10-2019   #1
helenhill
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love and loathe... Would I be crazy to

recently purchased the new Ricoh GRIII from 'Popflash'

I LOVE:
the size,
the touch option
the color rendering
the ergonomics
1:1 ratio
35 & 50 crop mode
snap focus

I LOATHE:
28mm ...
no matter how I try 28 is uncomfortable to shoot, too much in composition, have to get too closes to subjects


No Viewfinder
I am old school I guess, a VF a must

B&W rendering
is not so compelling for me visually ( for primarily a b&w shooter not good BUT can do Pp and make work)

to shoot in 50mm or 35 which I love BUT
the megapixel goes down to I think 6 or 8, crazy waste for a 24 megapixel camera


So since I shoot film just lay low and adjust to it
OR Sell the Ricoh and go back to a Fuji X100F or the fuji XE3



What would YOU do ? ... Thanks in advance !
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Old 06-10-2019   #2
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i love the xe3 body...it does more than i need it to, i like the smaller size and the fujicrons are very nice small lenses...and it can use your m lenses as well with an adapter.
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Old 06-10-2019   #3
Bill Clark
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What would I do?

Ask myself those questions before buying.

I dunno, I’m less of a gear fan anymore. Why, all these smartphones and tablet computers work just fine for me.

Looks like a nice camera.

Going to L.A. for about a week. Going to take my iPhone, iPad mini and my 1936 Leica IIIa. Going to use a few rolls of Ilford XP2 Plus. Got an Arista kit to develop.
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Old 06-10-2019   #4
ornate_wrasse
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Hi Helen,

There is no reason to keep the camera if you loathe the 28mm. As you said, you've tried the 28 but it's too much in composition and you have to get too close to the subjects.

I just got back from walking the Camino Frances in Spain and much of the time (when I wasn't using my cell phone) I used the Fuji XE-2, which I imagine is an older version of the XE-3. I really liked using it! The Fuji lenses are great and there will be no need to limit yourself to shooting the 28mm focal length. On my trip (I was carrying everything in a backpack), I took the 18-55 but in my real life I tend to use the 16-55 which is heavier but more useful as it's both faster and wider. I also took with me the 27mm pancake lens and REALLY liked that lens for its compact and low weight qualities.

So, if it were me, I would sell the Ricoh and buy the XE-3. I am not familiar with the X100T so cannot offer any advice on it.

Those are my two cents!

Ellen
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Old 06-10-2019   #5
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The 28mm perspective takes time to get used to. I had my GR for about a year before it started to make sense. I recently sold it, because I'm thinking of upgrading to the GRIII eventually. Looking back at my GR photos, I really miss it! It is truly a fun camera to shoot. When I discovered snap focus, it was a revelation for me.

One other recommendation: if you have not already tried to built-in B&W modes, give them a go. Although I did not use it often, the high contrast B&W mode (does the III still have that?) sometimes produced results I would not have attempted in post. In this way, the camera pushed me outside of my comfort zone. More generally, I think shooting 28mm does this for my photography. It forces me to think differently, and thus more creatively. My best photographs are often the result of happy accidents, and I had a lot of those with my Ricoh.
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Old 06-10-2019   #6
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Hi Helen,

I've never been particularly fond of the equivalent-in-FF 28mm FoV either. But I've gotten used to it a bit more lately, and presuming enough pixel resolution, it's easy to shoot with a more 35mm eqFoV in mind and just crop to that in post.

The viewfinder issue is simple for me: I'd just put the little Ricoh 28mm optical viewfinder on the camera and not worry about it.

The biggest issue I have with the GR series cameras is that I find them a bit too small and fiddly for my hands. For that reason, I'd be much more inclined to spend 5x the money and buy a Leica Q2 instead ... and with the Q2, I know I can crop to as little as a 75mm FoV with enough pixels to still get a very respectable pixel resolution to work with.

G
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Old 06-10-2019   #7
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I second the X-E3. It's my favorite digital I've ever owned, and I've owned everything from micro 4/3 to full frame, including Leica.

So small and light, and great optics.
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Old 06-10-2019   #8
Timmyjoe
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Hi Helen,

Sorry to hear the GRIII ain't jellin'. As a stand alone, I'm not a fan of 28mm. When covering an event, teaming a 28mm with an 85mm, that I like. But to have just a 28mm, and not doing event coverage, I'd dump it. When I've got a camera and one focal length, I'm on the same page, make it a 35mm or a 50mm.

It sounds like that is not your only issue with the GRIII. "No viewfinder" is a deal breaker for me. As well as the bad B&W conversion.

With your talent, I'm sure you could make beautiful images with it, but if you get no joy from using it, what's the point. So if it were me, I'd dump it.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Best,
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Old 06-10-2019   #9
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I have similar experience.

They say phones have 28mm equivalent lens. I crop it to square, too much of the space in full frame. I walked with it in Philadelphia after I run out of film. I didn't liked no VF for the street. I feel like a creep as well.

I took 99$ Bessa L with 28 1.9 to Chicago on previous week. Few weeks before I was trying to use this lens on M-E during work in Toronto. It was not my cap to tea. So, I put 35 VF on L (I don't have money for every possible focal length anyway ) and was trying to get closer.

It looks like I'll have more keepers comparing to two weeks ago trip to Philadelphia with 35mm lens. I think, 28 is the busy streets lens. Most of my keepers from previous week are from been close. And it happened naturally, due to the Chicago downtown streets.
Manhattan is even better.

Also, I find it more natural to me if I use my L zoom on 21 or even 17, again, in the crowd, but 28 is more difficult on the street.
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Old 06-10-2019   #10
Tim Gray
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If it were me, I’d keep it. But then I love 28mm...

If the focal length doesn’t work for you get rid of it.
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Old 06-10-2019   #11
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Helen, I'll second the vote for an X-E3, mine loves all my CV lenses. I am a fan of the 30ish field of view but I've used every thing from my 15 to my 75 and all the stops in between and with the Fuji adapter I haven't seen a problem yet. I've not done a pixel by pixel comparison but I "feel" the CV lenses are sharper than the Fuji lenses, or at least have less of the xTrans "smear".
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Old 06-10-2019   #12
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Fujifilm X-E3 with 35mm F2 (or 27mm 2.8). Such a great and relatively cheap combo. Small and fast too. I use the GR III sometimes, but I use this 35mm F2 from Fuji way more.
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Old 06-10-2019   #13
shawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
recently purchased the new Ricoh GRIII from 'Popflash'

I LOVE:
the size,
the touch option
the color rendering
the ergonomics
1:1 ratio
35 & 50 crop mode
snap focus

I LOATHE:
28mm ...
no matter how I try 28 is uncomfortable to shoot, too much in composition, have to get too closes to subjects


No Viewfinder
I am old school I guess, a VF a must

B&W rendering
is not so compelling for me visually ( for primarily a b&w shooter not good BUT can do Pp and make work)

to shoot in 50mm or 35 which I love BUT
the megapixel goes down to I think 6 or 8, crazy waste for a 24 megapixel camera


So since I shoot film just lay low and adjust to it
OR Sell the Ricoh and go back to a Fuji X100F or the fuji XE3



What would YOU do ? ... Thanks in advance !
I have a x100 but use the GRIII more due to its size.

Surprised you don't like B&W on the GRIII. It is *very* customizable with the four different starting points (monotone, Hi-Contrast, Soft Monotone and Hard Monotone) and then the ability to adjust each of them with contrast, sharpness, filters and so on.

The GV1 works well on the Ricoh.

Shawn
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Old 06-10-2019   #14
benlees
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I love the GR series... but don't own any right now. And won't for the time being. Give me Fuji OVF or give me...
I noticed you sold a X100F recently. The xe3 is similar, maybe smaller, than that. Maybe try the GR for a bit more time. They are very easy in the hand; almost don't miss the VF. Almost.
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Old 06-11-2019   #15
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Helen, have you tried the in-camera 35mm crop mode? And there are external VFs available 3rd party. If you like everything else about the camera, this might be an option.

I'm certain you can make wonderful images with the Ricoh, because talent trumps gear. Best of wishes from the desert southwest.

~Joe
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Old 06-11-2019   #16
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I have never been able to get comfortable with 28mm .. that would do it for me. Bye! lol
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Old 06-11-2019   #17
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If a camera doesn't work for you, you won't use it. So you've answered your own question about that.

I have a GRII. I bought it even though it had no viewfinder and a viewfinder was something I felt was a necessity. And I've never liked the 28mm equivalent focal length either.

With the Ricoh, I got used to the handling and the focal length because it's such a handy little go-anywhere pocket camera. And the image quality is excellent--APS-C format in a P&S package. I crop the hell out of the images and they still look great to me. And I'm primarily a B&W shooter and I love the Raw files for converting to B&W. I don't do JPEGs although they looked okay to me when I tried them. I seldom do color with the GR.

In actual use, I prefer my X100S to the GRII but the X100S is not a pocket camera. I've never used the XE3 but I never particularly liked the XE2S I had. Guess I like optical viewfinders better than electronic ones. But those EVFs are pretty nice at times.
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Old 06-11-2019   #18
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Sure we all have our prefered FLs, or film, or format, or...

I favor 50... 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH on the MP and AI-S 50mm f/1.2 on the F3P, but when I first got my MP I made a decision to try the 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M ASPH as an only lens for a couple of months... in addition to the Summilux 50 I eventually I picked up a CV15mm f/4.5 in M-Mount and the 28 became almost "normal". I still favor the 50, but on extended trips I always pack the 28.

Could I live with a 28 full time... I think so. After all I can survive with the x100t with it's dedicated 35 equiv... one of my least favorite FLs ; )

I am thinking maybe 21mm might be worth a try...
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Old 06-11-2019   #19
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The longer I live, the more I realize, all of life is just a bit of trial and error. In terms of photography, you have to get it in your hands, and use, before you know whether you like.

Doesn't sound like you found a good match.
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Old 06-11-2019   #20
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I'd sell it Helen. I used an X100 for a while, but found the fixed lens too limiting. Grass is always greener-itis: wanting to put a different lens on it. Next jump in digital for me was a Sony A7S. Full frame and many, many lenses to try...
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Old 06-11-2019   #21
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and the xe3 has the 'acros' film simulation which i love!
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Old 06-11-2019   #22
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Completely understand re the 28mm perspective. As already stated, it takes some time to get used to.
I personally have ditched an X100F in favour of the GR.
Optical viewfinders, you can add, but the GR is designed to be a "snapshot" camera (although much more capable than that). It's just a different mindset.
The 35mm crop is 16mp (the equiv to the GR II) and although I'm not sure what the 50mm equates to (8mp?), as I've stated in another thread, if Apple can use a 12mp tiny sensor from an IPhone to print billboard size ads, then I'd not be too concerned about the apparent lack of pixels - there's plenty enough ��
Also, it's subjective of course, but one of the (many) reasons I returned to the GR are its B&W jpegs.
And the macro on the GR pee pees on the X100F from a great height. With DNG Raw files and snap focus, it's just a far more flexible option, imo. Just need to get past the stigma of it being so compact, maybe (that was one of my hurdles - peer pressure and shaking off the baggage from my film shooting past (the VF thing).
Don't give up too soon, Helen. Look at its heritage!
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Old 06-11-2019   #23
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Might be a good idea to just put it in your pocket or purse when you bring your Leica. Pull it out when a situation dictates 28mm?
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Old 06-11-2019   #24
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Do you still have a full money back guarantee?
If you and 28 aren't made for each other, get rid of it fast and don't waste any moment with the wrong camera in your hands.

Hurry up gal .
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Old 06-11-2019   #25
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For me 28mm is right on the edge of the wide perspective effect that can dominate an image depending what shaped objects are near the edge of the frame. I loved the film GR1V I had ... probably the best point and shoot ever made but why 28mm? If it had been 35mm I'd probably still have it.
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Old 06-11-2019   #26
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I would love to have a GR with a 40-45mm lens without cropping.
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Old 06-11-2019   #27
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Did you like the Fuji X100F? I went through the reverse of your problem about two months ago. I was looking for a backup for my MP240 for a six month trip around the world this fall and was giving a strong thought to the GR3 but lack of a viewfinder, flash and 28 vice 35 was a deal breaker. I ended up with a used X100f and picked up a used aux lens for the 28 FOV.

As others have said on this forum, life is too short not to use what you like. And your photos are outstanding so why compromise. Now I like to swap gear and could see trading you my X100F for GR3 just to be different. Let me know as I am really fickle about gear. May just leave all the digital at home and take a film Leica.
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Old 06-11-2019   #28
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I use, and actually love, my little Fuji X70, which is kinda like the GRIII, and has an equivalent 28mm lens. I use the camera mainly indoors, taking pictures of "things," where getting close to the subject isn't a problem. Generally, I don't use 28mm to take photos of the same subjects that I normally use 35 or 50 focal lengths to photograph.

You are still shooting film and seem to want a pocketable camera (if purchasing the GRIII is an indication) with a focal length you feel more comfortable with. I've been shooting with an Olympus XA for nearly 40 years, and am still astonished by the image quality I get from that little camera. Yes, the RF patch is tiny, but in every other respect it's a remarkable camera (I now have two).

So a secret 28mm man you are Steve , how fun is that.

Tried to be more daring in seeing and shooting... guess I need to spend more time with it

Thanks Steve !
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Old 06-11-2019   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley View Post
i love the xe3 body...it does more than i need it to, i like the smaller size and the fujicrons are very nice small lenses...and it can use your m lenses as well with an adapter.
Agreed, It’s a great camera for sure ...OVF is lovely, small size perfect, acros very cool

Thank You Joe !
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Old 06-11-2019   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
What would I do?

Ask myself those questions before buying.

I dunno, I’m less of a gear fan anymore. Why, all these smartphones and tablet computers work just fine for me.

Looks like a nice camera.

Going to L.A. for about a week. Going to take my iPhone, iPad mini and my 1936 Leica IIIa. Going to use a few rolls of Ilford XP2 Plus. Got an Arista kit to develop.
Such a wasteful gurl I can be... and with digital gear I can be very Impulsive
Thanks Bill for your thoughts.
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Old 06-11-2019   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ornate_wrasse View Post
Hi Helen,

There is no reason to keep the camera if you loathe the 28mm. As you said, you've tried the 28 but it's too much in composition and you have to get too close to the subjects.

I just got back from walking the Camino Frances in Spain and much of the time (when I wasn't using my cell phone) I used the Fuji XE-2, which I imagine is an older version of the XE-3.
Those are my two cents!Ellen
Sounds like a Great Trip... look forward to viewing your photos with the XE2

Still deciding on how much time I want to put into the 28 fov... silly of me
But otherwise it truly is a special camera the GRIII

Thanks fir your thoughts Ellen ~
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Old 06-11-2019   #32
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The 28mm perspective takes time to get used to. I had my GR for about a year before it started to make sense. I recently sold it, because I'm thinking of upgrading to the GRIII eventually. Looking back at my GR photos, I really miss it! It is truly a fun camera to shoot. When I discovered snap focus, it was a revelation for me.

One other recommendation: if you have not already tried to built-in B&W modes, give them a go. Although I did not use it often, the high contrast B&W mode (does the III still have that?) sometimes produced results I would not have attempted in post. In this way, the camera pushed me outside of my comfort zone. More generally, I think shooting 28mm does this for my photography. It forces me to think differently, and thus more creatively. My best photographs are often the result of happy accidents, and I had a lot of those with my Ricoh.
On your suggestion I played with the different BW options...
there are four: BW, soft BW, Hard BW, Hi BW
Seemed to spark the creative in me

Lucky You to have the 28 field of view give you “happy accidents” and make You more creative ...sweeeet !
Thank You ‘jja’ !
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Old 06-11-2019   #33
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Hi Helen,

I've never been particularly fond of the equivalent-in-FF 28mm FoV either. But I've gotten used to it a bit more lately, and presuming enough pixel resolution, it's easy to shoot with a more 35mm eqFoV in mind and just crop to that in post.

The viewfinder issue is simple for me: I'd just put the little Ricoh 28mm optical viewfinder on the camera and not worry about it.

The biggest issue I have with the GR series cameras is that I find them a bit too small and fiddly for my hands. For that reason, I'd be much more inclined to spend 5x the money and buy a Leica Q2 instead ... and with the Q2, I know I can crop to as little as a 75mm FoV with enough pixels to still get a very respectable pixel resolution to work with.

G
Hello Godfrey

At this point a Leica Q would be of no interest...
28 can be the hardest way kf seeing for me...not many keepers

Thanks for your thoughts !
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Old 06-11-2019   #34
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I second the X-E3. It's my favorite digital I've ever owned, and I've owned everything from micro 4/3 to full frame, including Leica.

So small and light, and great optics.

Ha, leaning that way
So pleased to hear it’s that GOOD and even more for You

Thank You for your enthusiasm.
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Old 06-11-2019   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
Hi Helen,

Sorry to hear the GRIII ain't jellin'. As a stand alone, I'm not a fan of 28mm. When covering an event, teaming a 28mm with an 85mm, that I like. But to have just a 28mm, and not doing event coverage, I'd dump it. When I've got a camera and one focal length, I'm on the same page, make it a 35mm or a 50mm.

It sounds like that is not your only issue with the GRIII. "No viewfinder" is a deal breaker for me. As well as the bad B&W conversion.

With your talent, I'm sure you could make beautiful images with it, but if you get no joy from using it, what's the point. So if it were me, I'd dump it.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Best,
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Old 06-11-2019   #36
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I have similar experience.

They say phones have 28mm equivalent lens. I crop it to square, too much of the space in full frame. I walked with it in Philadelphia after I run out of film. I didn't liked no VF for the street. I feel like a creep as well.

I took 99$ Bessa L with 28 1.9 to Chicago on previous week. Few weeks before I was trying to use this lens on M-E during work in Toronto. It was not my cap to tea. So, I put 35 VF on L (I don't have money for every possible focal length anyway ) and was trying to get closer.

It looks like I'll have more keepers comparing to two weeks ago trip to Philadelphia with 35mm lens. I think, 28 is the busy streets lens. Most of my keepers from previous week are from been close. And it happened naturally, due to the Chicago downtown streets.
Manhattan is even better.

Also, I find it more natural to me if I use my L zoom on 21 or even 17, again, in the crowd, but 28 is more difficult on the street.
So Kofe, am I understanding correctly
You are grooving more with the 28 than 35
Lucky You... send me some of that mojo magic please

Thank You !
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Old 06-11-2019   #37
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Originally Posted by Tim Gray View Post
If it were me, I’d keep it. But then I love 28mm...

If the focal length doesn’t work for you get rid of it.

Well Tim
I have not given upyet. Was out and about today
Though not sure if I am happy with what i took

Thanks for your Thoughts~
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Old 06-11-2019   #38
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Helen, I'll second the vote for an X-E3, mine loves all my CV lenses. I am a fan of the 30ish field of view but I've used every thing from my 15 to my 75 and all the stops in between and with the Fuji adapter I haven't seen a problem yet. I've not done a pixel by pixel comparison but I "feel" the CV lenses are sharper than the Fuji lenses, or at least have less of the xTrans "smear".
Interesting to note that You prefer CV lenses and feel they are sharper than the fuji’s
Thanks for that, might give it a go with my 50 VM nokton
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Old 06-11-2019   #39
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Fujifilm X-E3 with 35mm F2 (or 27mm 2.8). Such a great and relatively cheap combo. Small and fast too. I use the GR III sometimes, but I use this 35mm F2 from Fuji way more.
Very cool combo indeed !
I still like Fuji very much
The Ricoh is Superb on so many levels except 28, lol

Thanks John !
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Old 06-11-2019   #40
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I have a x100 but use the GRIII more due to its size.

Surprised you don't like B&W on the GRIII. It is *very* customizable with the four different starting points (monotone, Hi-Contrast, Soft Monotone and Hard Monotone) and then the ability to adjust each of them with contrast, sharpness, filters and so on.

The GV1 works well on the Ricoh.

Shawn
Hi Shawn,

I played more with the various BW settings and came up with a look I love.
It’s really no OVF and 28 i am struggling with
Otherwise it is an exceptional tiny powerhouse that GRIII
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