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Nikon Mirrorless Overdue about 3 years, the Nikon Mirrorless system finally arrived in 2018!

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Picked up a Z6
Old 03-30-2019   #1
Ken Ford
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Picked up a Z6

After months of reflection, I took the plunge today and picked up a Z6, 24-70S and FTZ adapter before the current promotions expired. I’ll be selling off my Df and a few lenses since that’s what it will be replacing. I’m not unsealing the boxes until the memory card and filter I just ordered from Adorama arrives this week.

I’m planning on picking up a quality M to Z adapter, the new 14-30 when it’s released and possibly the improved 70-300P that Thom likes so much - maybe even the 50S.

I’ve been looking forward to this!
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Old 03-30-2019   #2
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Congratulations. Been using a Z6 for a couple months now, with an Amedeo adapter and a Nikon Z to Leica M adapter, and my old Nikon Rangefinder Nikkors. Really a joy to shoot.

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Old 03-30-2019   #3
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Thanks! I just bumped up an old thread about the potential of using Nikon RF lenses on the Z - is that the Amedeo adapter?
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Old 03-30-2019   #4
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Ken - love to hear what you think of the Z6. Maybe it’s time for another meetup?
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Old 03-30-2019   #5
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I'm a Fuji fan, but if I wanted a FF mirrorless, Nikon would be my choice. Enjoy!
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Old 03-31-2019   #6
Ken Ford
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Definitely time for another Chicago area meet!

I picked up three inexpensive adapters to get things moving:

M>Z (Rainbow Imaging)
LTM>Z (Rainbow Imaging)
S>Z (eBay seller, item 283337490025)

If I like how my M lenses work on the Z, I’ll replace the M adapter with something higher quality if needed.
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Old 03-31-2019   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I'm a Fuji fan, but if I wanted a FF mirrorless, Nikon would be my choice. Enjoy!
Thanks! I hear you - my Fuji gear is hear to stay, especially my XP2. I’m seeing the Z as being a replacement for my Nikon DSLRs for non action use. Step two will be picking up a D500 for action.
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Old 04-21-2019   #8
Ken Ford
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Well... I am impressed enough with my Z6 so far that I’ve put all thoughts of a D500 on hold. I have expanded my native mount lenses with the 50 and 14-30, and am just now starting to play with adapted lenses.
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Old 04-21-2019   #9
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Would enjoy seeing some samples from the 14-30 if you already have it in hand.
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Old 04-22-2019   #10
Ken Ford
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It’ll be here this week!
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Old 04-22-2019   #11
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You're a man of many surprises, Ken! I don't recall your mentioning this ever, but perhaps you did... It's time indeed for a meet. How's that 24-70 working for you? Is it a fast one or variable aperture? The Z6 has had me intrigued for a while but I still am too attached to my D700 (yes, it's still here! ) In any case, please, post some images with your new glass! And thanks for keeping up posted too!
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Old 04-22-2019   #12
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Yesterday I was able to play with a family member's Z6 for a while.
  • It is very light
  • It is smaller than I thought it would be.
  • The body resembles a RF body with two significant exceptions: the battery grip and of course the center finder. While these are significant differences, Nikon could easily make an X-Pro and, or GFX style camera(s) with the Z platform.
  • The F-mount adapter is about as big as I thought it would be. But it is light.
  • The EVF and LCD displays are very nice.

Separately, Jim Kasson has published rigorous technical evaluations of the Z6/Z7 (mostly the Z7). A somewhat oversimplified summary is: the Z6's technical imaging performance is very close to the Z7's. I don't think the Z7 has a significant advantage in dynamic range or low-light signal-to-noise ratio.

After actually experiencing a Z6, I think Nikon is in a very strong position with the new Z series. Nikon fans should rejoice.
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Old 04-22-2019   #13
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Quote:
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After actually experiencing a Z6, I think Nikon is in a very strong position with the new Z series. Nikon fans should rejoice.
I would if my Z7 was as compatible with F mount lenses as pretty much any old Nikon DSLR. But it isnt.
If you use, for example, an AI-S lens, while it mounts onto the FTZ adapter, there is no translation between lens and camera of what aperture is being used. Because Nikon in its wisdom decided to omit providing an aperture feeler.
Nikon currently sells, brand new, PK-11 PK-12 and PK-13 extension tubes that have aperture feelers! But skip it on their lens adapter for their new mirrorless system.

A 10 year old Nikon DSLR can read apertures from mf lenses, but the brand spankin new Z series cannot.
Unbelievable.
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Old 04-22-2019   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post

A 10 year old Nikon DSLR can read apertures from mf lenses, but the brand spankin new Z series cannot.
Unbelievable.
Thanks, good to know. Now I won’t be rushing out to buy one.

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Old 04-23-2019   #15
Ken Ford
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I wish the FTZ had an Ai tab too, but - what’s the practical difference? You’re metering in stop down mode, and the EVF shows you the exposure and focus. I’ve been testing my MF Nikkors, M lenses and even my Canon LTM 50/1.2, and the shooting experience with each is great.

Much ado about nothing IMO...
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Old 04-23-2019   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ford View Post

Much ado about nothing IMO...

I agree 100%.

Nikon sets the gold standard for its long-standing forward- and backward-compatibility of its system, including its introduction of various advancements (AF, AFS, the new Z mount, etc). Heaven forbid something wonderful and new doesn't include ALL possible combinations from days gone by! I'm surprised no one has yet demanded they include support for the "rabbit ear" pre-AI lenses....

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Old 04-23-2019   #17
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Quote:
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I wish the FTZ had an Ai tab too, but - what’s the practical difference?
.
There is no practical difference. Zero. I use Ai-s lenses on a Z7 all the time. If someone could tell me why the resulting photos are compromised because the aperture setting isn't cluttering up the EXIF data, I'd be willing to listen. If I can't tell by looking at the photo whether it was shot as f/2 or f/5.6, I should be pursuing another hobby anyway.
Best camera I have ever owned, in every way.
Is EXIF peeping the new pixel peeping? Or what.
Talk about a first world problem.
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Old 04-23-2019   #18
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Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
There is no practical difference. Zero. I use Ai-s lenses on a Z7 all the time. If someone could tell me why the resulting photos are compromised because the aperture setting isn't cluttering up the EXIF data, I'd be willing to listen. If I can't tell by looking at the photo whether it was shot as f/2 or f/5.6, I should be pursuing another hobby anyway.
Best camera I have ever owned, in every way.
Is EXIF peeping the new pixel peeping? Or what.
Talk about a first world problem.

Yeah, I don't hear the Leica guys bemoaning the fact. The Z series could be the ultimate platform for using other manufacturers lenses, so I can keep more of the lenses I like, and just sell off all the others and cameras. Hoping for a C/Y-to-Z so I can use my Contax Zeiss lenses on it.


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Old 04-23-2019   #19
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Because the camera does not know what aperture is being used the auto iso setting is hampered and the evf does not show the actual exposure but a corrected version as to what it thinks it should so getting a ‘correct exposure’ involves not looking at the image in the evf but staring at the histogram and pushing it to the right.
And yes I have the evf set to show actual exposure.

When I use a chipped lens like a Nikkor 45mm 2.8 AI-P or CV SL2 or Otis it works correctly because the camera knows what the actual aperture is. I like how instead of wondering why Nikon didnt just add an aperture feeler seeing they still offer that on their extension tubes, some people’s responses are fanboi like. Remember this thing is $250 ish. Canon charges $90 for their same version. But yaaaay Nikon!
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Old 04-23-2019   #20
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. Hoping for a C/Y-to-Z so I can use my Contax Zeiss lenses on it.


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Here you go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fotodiox-Pr...YAAOSw7ilcdxeV

or

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kipon-Adapt...sAAOSwQ-1byASP

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Old 04-23-2019   #21
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Because the camera does not know what aperture is being used the auto iso setting is hampered and the evf does not show the actual exposure but a corrected version as to what it thinks it should so getting a ‘correct exposure’ involves not looking at the image in the evf but staring at the histogram and pushing it to the right.
And yes I have the evf set to show actual exposure.

When I use a chipped lens like a Nikkor 45mm 2.8 AI-P or CV SL2 or Otis it works correctly because the camera knows what the actual aperture is. I like how instead of wondering why Nikon didnt just add an aperture feeler seeing they still offer that on their extension tubes, some people’s responses are fanboi like. Remember this thing is $250 ish. Canon charges $90 for their same version. But yaaaay Nikon!
Okay, I'm old and I don't use/won't use Auto ISO, because I don't like to lose control over what I am doing by delegating it to an electronic brain which has no idea what I am trying to accomplish on any given day.
I always look at the histograms anyway, and even with any camera and any lens in my experience, there are always times when the camera wants to make an exposure I don't want to make, which means I will be wanting to adjust the exposure. So no automatic camera has ever really been automatic for me, with any lens. But, I get your point.

But, okay, I stand corrected. For some people, this would make a difference.
I would think this EVF behavior would be correctable via a firmware update, but perhaps not.
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Old 04-23-2019   #22
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It's just that it seems like such an obvious oversight. I actually talked with Nikon and asked why it wasnt there, and they couldnt give me an answer.

Don't get me wrong, the FTZ works fantastic with chipped and the AF lenses w/ built in motors. Truly great. But this one little thing would have made it perfect with the hundreds of other old Nikon lenses out there too.
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Old 04-23-2019   #23
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Because the camera does not know what aperture is being used the auto iso setting is hampered and the evf does not show the actual exposure but a corrected version as to what it thinks it should so getting a ‘correct exposure’ involves not looking at the image in the evf but staring at the histogram and pushing it to the right.
And yes I have the evf set to show actual exposure.

Using a Leica M lens or any number of other platforms on the Z camera must really be a problem then. Or maybe those guys are all fanbois?
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Old 04-23-2019   #24
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I'm not sure I get the obsession with using adapted lenses from film cameras. Is it just because you can? Why not use lenses designed for the camera?
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Old 04-23-2019   #25
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Is it just because you can?

Yes, pretty much. Its fun.
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Old 04-23-2019   #26
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I'm not sure I get the obsession with using adapted lenses from film cameras. Is it just because you can? Why not use lenses designed for the camera?
I do use the lenses designed for the camera. I also use adapted lenses, lots of them. None of them will, or can, yield the same photo. People use adapted lenses for the same reason people keep more than one 50mm around. (Though others only keep one 50 around, because it's the "best". I don't even know what "best" means in the context of lenses.)
I prefer some of the results of some of the adapted lenses to the results from the native lenses, depending on the subject matter and the lighting. There is a lot more to photography than resolution and "sharp to the corners".
It's not an obsession, it's an enlightening exploration of possibilities.
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Old 04-23-2019   #27
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I'm not sure I get the obsession with using adapted lenses from film cameras. Is it just because you can? Why not use lenses designed for the camera?
I used a manual focus 105 mm lens on my D700, and then on my D750. Why? Because I paid $200 for that lens, versus $1,200 for an AF version.
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Old 04-23-2019   #28
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First, congratulations on the new equipment Ken, I'm sure you'll enjoy using it. Second, I'm kind of surprised at all the negativity here. What's truly amazing is that Nikon builds cameras today, granted not mirrorless ones though, that are incredibly compatible with lenses made over the last 40 years. This in a world where, for example, Apple stops supporting many of their products 5-7 years after they're released. If you have a stable of older Nikkors and want to use them to their fullest, invest in any of the full frame Nikon DSLRs made in the last 10 years or so.

Let's not forget that Nikon is in the business of selling cameras and lenses. "Dropping" support for lenses that were made 20-40 years ago is certainly understandable when they're releasing a new product line. This is coming from someone who has over 80 Nikon and Nikon mount lenses, none of which is newer than the AF-D series.
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Old 04-24-2019   #29
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Thanks, I'll keep those in mind when I finally get a Z6 (looks like a long time from now).


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Old 04-24-2019   #30
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Using a Leica M lens or any number of other platforms on the Z camera must really be a problem then. Or maybe those guys are all fanbois?
M glass is not mentioned by Nikon as maintaing the legacy of compatibility. Because, this may surprise you, Nikon did not make them.

And yes, when I use M glass on my Z7, they behave exactly the same as my Nikon AI-S glass. But I expected that as the M adapter is a 'dumb' adapter. It's just a tube. The FTZ adapter has electronic contacts, chips etc for Nikon lenses.

What does this tell you? If you are just using non chipped Nikon lenses, a $20 adapter works just as well as the $249 Nikon adapter. But has the advantage of being much smaller (as well as cheaper).
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Old 04-24-2019   #31
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I'm not sure I get the obsession with using adapted lenses from film cameras. Is it just because you can? Why not use lenses designed for the camera?
Nikon lenses were designed to be used with Nikon cameras. Many people use certain manual Nikon lenses (and AF ones w/o the built in motor) specifically because of how they render an image. Nikon does not have any Z mount lenses that replicate the look of a 180 2.8 AIS, 24mm 2.8 AIS, 105 1.8 AIS etc etc
So why would we abandon them? Especially given that Nikon currently offers only 4 Z mount lenses.

Leica, bless them, allows pretty much any Leica M mount lens to be used with the M series and the SL, because it understands that people value them and so builds in specific profiles for many (most? all?) of those lenses into the current digital bodies.

Nikon offers essentially full compatibility with its DSLRs, but dropped that with its mirrorless which is puzzling as those bodies should offer more, not less, compatibility.
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Old 04-25-2019   #32
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I honestly would not be surprised if someone (probably not Nikon, though) develops an adapter with an Ai tab/encoder and a screwdriver AF motor.
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Old 04-25-2019   #33
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Nikon does not have any Z mount lenses that replicate the look of a 180 2.8 AIS, 24mm 2.8 AIS, 105 1.8 AIS etc etc
So why would we abandon them? Especially given that Nikon currently offers only 4 Z mount lenses.

Be patient, there will be more coming. This may surprise you, but Nikon is in the business of selling lenses. They want you to buy something new; the decision to "abandon" AIS users was probably intentional.
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Old 04-25-2019   #34
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...

Nikon offers essentially full compatibility with its DSLRs, but dropped that with its mirrorless which is puzzling as those bodies should offer more, not less, compatibility.
Not that puzzling.

Nikon is a slow-moving bureaucracy. Their response to mirrorless technology moved at glacial speeds. Their business strategy was to protect their FX DSLR platform. This didn't work.

When became obvious that larger sensor areas (43 x 33mm) will become economically competitive with FX sensors, Nikon finally responded. They made some wise decisions with the Z platform. But they are playing catch up. There aren't enough resources to produce new Z mount FX lenses quickly.

They may never offer the same level of compatibility though. Nikon may choose to focus its resources on Z-mount lenses for 43 x 33mm sensors – which is the purpose of the Z lens mount.

It wouldn't surprise me if Nikon eventually released a mirrorless F-mount camera that is backwards compatible with almost all F-mount lenses. I think for Nikon, FX will become the new DX.

Unlike Leica, Nikon has never been interested in supporting photographers who enjoy using older lenses. There has never been an acceptable manual focus system for their DSLRs. It took years before they made the DF. This delay was not based on technology or manufacturing costs. It was a marketing decision to sell more new lenses to people who really didn't want or need them.
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Old 04-29-2019   #35
Ken Ford
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Meanwhile, I’m having a good time learning the new system. I haven’t had a lot of time for photography, but I’m getting there.

The core Z6 kit is pretty much stable at this point. Z6, 14-30, 24-70, 50 and a F mount 70-300 AF-P. Plus, in addition to the FTZ I have adapters for M, LTM and Nikon S (no focus mount.) I’m hoping someone will do a focusing mount Nikon S adapter at some point so I can use my 50/1.4.

My biggest problem right now is finding a decent bag that I like! I’m a long time Domke user, but Tiffen has done a crap job keeping the line relevant for modern equipment - lenses are much larger diameter now, and they don’t fit well in the lens cells. They need to take the F2 and enlarge it slightly so it can take fatter glass without making it much deeper.
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Old 04-29-2019   #36
shawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
I'm not sure I get the obsession with using adapted lenses from film cameras. Is it just because you can? Why not use lenses designed for the camera?
As one who has fairly recently gone over to the adapted lens side there are several advantages...

1) Lens choices (literally thousands available)
2) Cost (most of the time much less money than system lenses and they won't depreciate the same way)
3) Size (RF lenses are tiny in comparison)
4) Near universal compatibility (lenses can be used for many systems, not tied into one)
5) Much easier/cheaper to change system bodies without being tied into system lenses. Also allows lens sharing between systems.

I use LTM and M mount lenses on my Leica but also use them on a Sony A7RII and an IR converted A7II.

On the Sonys I loose auto aperture but I shoot aperture priority. So this is really no loss and I prefer the aperture ring compared to a dial. With the TAP I can even have AF with the adapted lenses. But I typically use MF with peaking as I am finding I prefer it more. (And this is from using AF since the F5).

An additonal unexpected bonus was that with adapted lens, shooting MF I rarely have to touch the Sony's god awful menu system. I have the functions I need mapped to buttons and am pretty much good to go.

I have one native mount Sony (28-70 I bought for *cheap*) and also use a couple of adapted Canon EF mount lenses on the Sonys.

Shawn
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