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Image Processing: Darkroom / Lightroom / Film Discuss Image processing -- traditional darkoom or digital lightroom here. Notice there are subcategories to narrow down subject matter. .

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Old 10-13-2018   #1
rbiemer
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"Save as..." question(s)

If this is in the wrong sub fora, I apologize and could one of our excellent Mods move it, please!
Anyway,
I've been using FastStone Image Viewer as my main basic editor. Catalogs my photos pretty well and I can do my typical minor adjustments quickly and easily.

Recently, I opened a new bank account and one of the little perks is that I can give them an image file and get one free custom ATM/debit card.

Cool, I have a few shots that look good at the small size and so I chose one. After editing for size/crop and a minor levels change, I saved it as usual--an RGB jpeg--and uploaded the file. The preview showed me my photo as magenta and green with a little yellow. NOT anything like the original.

SO, I saved a copy as Grayscale and that one looks fine. But the photo itself isn't at its best as a BW conversion. So I also saved it as YCbCr (the next choice down the list in the pop down menu) and that file looks fine. This is the preview and I don't know what the actual card will look like, yet.

FastStone gives me several options to "save as" for jpeg files:
RGB
Grayscale
YCbCr
CMYK
YCbCrK
along with various "quality" settings.

Which, finally, leads to my question.
Which should I be saving in for most things?


If I'm sending a file for a print, I save as RGB jpeg at best quality--(I have all my scans saved as TIFF and edit on copies, save the result as its own file)--and send it to my printer. If I'm printing at home, I use either RGB or Grayscale jpeg.
CMYK is based on color separation printing, if I recall correctly?
The other two I don't know about.

I use MPIX as my primary digital printer and they will print just fine with RGB files, I seem to remember that we needed to send CMYK files for the Rangefinder Forum book and I've used CMYK in the few Blurb books I've made--I think. It's been a few years since I made one.

And, yes, I am googling this as I'm posting this here but I also trust my fellow RFfers a bit more than random internet sources.

Thanks, folks!
Rob
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Old 10-13-2018   #2
ptpdprinter
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I am not familiar with Faststone but normally you would save as RGB for color and Greyscale for monochrome. I don't know why your image comes out with a magenta green cast.
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Old 10-13-2018   #3
View Range
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You didn't say what color profile you are using: sRGB, Adobe RGB, PhotoPro RGB, Apple RGB, etc. I am thinking that the bank's software is assuming a certain color profile (sRGB?) and you are using one that it doesn't expect.
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Old 10-13-2018   #4
rbiemer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
I am not familiar with Faststone but normally you would save as RGB for color and Greyscale for monochrome. I don't know why your image comes out with a magenta green cast.
I think View Range has an answer to the weird color cast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Range View Post
You didn't say what color profile you are using: sRGB, Adobe RGB, PhotoPro RGB, Apple RGB, etc. I am thinking that the bank's software is assuming a certain color profile (sRGB?) and you are using one that it doesn't expect.
That makes sense. The web page for ordering does not specify anything other than "jpeg at a minimum of 840x840 pixels and a maximum of 10Mb file size." No idea what color space their software is expecting.
And, I don't know what colorspace FastStone uses, either, now that I think about it. I've never had an issue with whatever it is and my program hasn't had an issue with any of my scans--mostly from Precision Camera, some from my local labs(drugstores), and a few from Vuescan--I've been scanning my own LF negs on my crappy all in one Canon printer/scanner.

A clear demonstration of a gap in my knowledge, here.

Rob
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Old 10-13-2018   #5
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CMYK is normally for things being printed on an actual printing press...

I would agree that the color profile is wrong. Ideally, you would want a profile for the print media as well, but I doubt they do that...

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Old 10-13-2018   #6
View Range
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I'm not familiar with FastStone. You should be able to tell and change it in the software. In Photoshop it is "assign profile" and "convert to profile" under "edit". The current profile shows on the bottom left of the screen. FastStone may just accept whatever your camera is set to. sRGB (for Web) and Adobe RGB (for printing) are the usual options. There are many who use PhotoPro, but I find PhotoPro does not do well when images are taken to Acrobat or Microsoft Office.
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Old 10-13-2018   #7
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Another thought. If the bank thinks most people are using iPhones, maybe they are optimized for whatever profile iPhones use. It could be Apple RGB.
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Old 10-13-2018   #8
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OK, after some poking around in FastStone, I find that its default is sRGB. Apparently, I can change that if I choose, there is a "color management" option that I've not used before since I haven't needed to.

Rob
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Old 10-14-2018   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by View Range View Post
I'm not familiar with FastStone. You should be able to tell and change it in the software. In Photoshop it is "assign profile" and "convert to profile" under "edit". The current profile shows on the bottom left of the screen. FastStone may just accept whatever your camera is set to. sRGB (for Web) and Adobe RGB (for printing) are the usual options. There are many who use PhotoPro, but I find PhotoPro does not do well when images are taken to Acrobat or Microsoft Office.
I agree.

Digital display, especially internet = sRBG

Printing = Adobe RGB JPEGs; some labs prefer TIFFs and as rolfe mentioned printing presses often require CMYK.


The PhotoPro color space is useful for rendering optimization. Lightroom CC Classic uses PhotoPro but rendered image exports can be in any number of file formats.

For JPEGs the Quality parameter determines how much lossy compression is applied to the exported image. A lower Quality setting increases compression. This reduces file size and decreases detail. The optimum amount of lossy compression depends the trade-off between minimizing file size and maximizing image quality. A city-scape image with lots of detail will benefit from the minimum amount of compression. A foggy sea-scape has much less detail and more compression is not a problem. For printing use the highest Quality. The printer's on-board software will optimize how to best use the data for its hardware. For web use and screen display lower Quality levels are useful.

TIFFs may or my not be compressed. If compressed, the compression may or may not be lossy. For lossy compression there may be a Quality parameter. But I have never seen this option.
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Old 10-17-2018   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolfe View Post
CMYK is normally for things being printed on an actual printing press...
Indeed, when making wedding or birth cards and stuff like that.
In the press shop they always ask to get the files in CMYK settings.

When I just order photos to print on photo paper, RGB is fine, never had any problems. Never tried CMYK for photos though...
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