Problems getting good black level
Old 06-22-2019   #1
Steve Ruddy
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Problems getting good black level

I have a Canon Pro-1000 and am printing a greyscale image on Canson Aquarelle Rag. My test prints have nice black level but when I print a full size 17x22 sheet the black level drops to to a crappy light gray. I have tried making another printing profile with my ColorMunki Photo this had no affect and actually had a little less shadow detail than my original profile. I also tried Cansons profile. The difference is not an illusion of size as there are spots in the image that are 95% black. Pulling my hair out!!

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Old 06-22-2019   #2
Saul
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What program do you print with?
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Old 06-22-2019   #3
Steve Ruddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul View Post
What program do you print with?
LR however I tried PS same print dialog as it's the printers.
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Old 06-22-2019   #4
Ko.Fe.
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I ditched canon printers long time ago. Epson.
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Old 06-23-2019   #5
Dogman
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I've never used Canon printers and I've never used Aquarelle Rag (although I've used several other Canson matte papers in an Epson). So I'm just offering opinions here--actually WAGs.

Matte papers don't have the contrast of the glossier types so you might try punching up the contrast in the Print module or darkening the black point in the Develop module of LR when printing larger. Or it could be that the increase in size of the prints enlarges the details in the black areas enough to make them appear lighter.

That's all I got. Sorry.
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Old 06-23-2019   #6
retinax
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Test print are on the same paper, yes? You are printing on the same side of the paper, if there's any difference? Sounds like something is malfunctioning. Either the driver or perhaps ink supply too slow?

To see if it may be the driver:

*See if things change when you try updating the driver, using an older version, or a third party one if available
*Does the same thing happen when you make a small test print that's a section of the large print, at the same magnification?
*When you change the size of the print in the printer settings as opposed to the image size in PS or vice versa?
*When you upres the image so that the printer driver has to downres it again at the same ratio it had to for the test image?

If it's ink supply, you may see a change when you alter settings that might affect ink supply, like resolution or paper surface type. The latter should also give a change in density if things work properly though.
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Old 06-23-2019   #7
View Range
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You don't say how you are resizing and what DPI you are using. It would be interesting to have that information.

I recommend this approach with iPF pigment printers. Use Canon's Print Studio Pro, a PS plug-in, instead of PS's printer driver. Also convert to the paper profile "upstream". Use Edit/Convert to Profile to apply the profile. You can save this version of the file as a ready-to-print version for future printing. Then in Print Studio Pro print with no profile applied. I don't use Lightroom so I don't know how it is done in LR.
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Old 06-23-2019   #8
Bob Michaels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ruddy View Post
I have a Canon Pro-1000 and am printing a greyscale image on Canson Aquarelle Rag. My test prints have nice black level but when I print a full size 17x22 sheet the black level drops to to a crappy light gray...............
You must be changing something other than paper sizes to cause a difference in the print. No clue if it is a different paper, printer driver, profile, or what. But you only need to determine what you are changing and stop doing it if you want your final print to mirror your test print.

BTW, with a complete color managed system, you will learn there is no need to do test prints as your first print will also be your final print as it will look just like your screen.
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Old 06-23-2019   #9
Steve Ruddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
You must be changing something other than paper sizes to cause a difference in the print. No clue if it is a different paper, printer driver, profile, or what. But you only need to determine what you are changing and stop doing it if you want your final print to mirror your test print.

BTW, with a complete color managed system, you will learn there is no need to do test prints as your first print will also be your final print as it will look just like your screen.
I think your absolutely right. I did change media type as the default was pro luster. I'm pretty sure I may have not always changed it to heavy weight fine art paper. What is bothering me about this is that the exact media, aquarelle rag is not in the list. it seems to have some canon papers and generic descriptions like the one I used. I read somewhere that there is canon software to add different media types but it's limited to quantity of media you can ad. I aslo played with using black and white print setting vs printing grayscale with all color inks. I didn't see that my blacks were any denser either way. I guess I need to do many more tests and keep track of all my settings. I have had this printer for several years and have always printed on canon ans Canson semigloss papers and Baryta papers with excellent results. Now that I want to print on mat fine art papers it looks like it is not as straight forward.
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Old 06-23-2019   #10
Steve Ruddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retinax View Post
Test print are on the same paper, yes? You are printing on the same side of the paper, if there's any difference? Sounds like something is malfunctioning. Either the driver or perhaps ink supply too slow?

To see if it may be the driver:

*See if things change when you try updating the driver, using an older version, or a third party one if available
*Does the same thing happen when you make a small test print that's a section of the large print, at the same magnification?
*When you change the size of the print in the printer settings as opposed to the image size in PS or vice versa?
*When you upres the image so that the printer driver has to downres it again at the same ratio it had to for the test image?

If it's ink supply, you may see a change when you alter settings that might affect ink supply, like resolution or paper surface type. The latter should also give a change in density if things work properly though.
Thanks I'll give some of those a try and keep records this time!
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Old 06-24-2019   #11
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You cannot expect the same results if you change media types. The "fine art" matte papers take ink differently from the baryta and smooth finish semigloss papers and, at least in the case of Epson, requires a different type of black ink. And, as I posted above, matte finish rag-type papers have inherently less apparent contrast than the shinier papers so that also has to be considered. In LR Print module, I increase the Brightness and Contrast settings for matte papers as well as adjusting the sharpness.

That the printer doesn't have the exact paper you use should not matter as long as you select a paper that is the same type with the same characteristics. When I use a Canson or Hahnemuhle or Ilford matte paper with my printer, I will use one of the listed Epson brand matte papers as an alternative such as Hot Press Natural (or Bright), Ultrasmooth Fine Art or Velvet Fine Art for smooth to lightly textured papers and Cold Press Natural (or Bright) for more textured papers.

Switching back and forth from one media type to another can be confusing because differernt types of papers do not share the same characteristics. It takes a bit of fiddling around with settings to get each one right. I found I preferred the look of my photos on matte rag papers over baryta type papers long ago so I now only use my photo printer for these types of papers so I never change things.
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Old 06-30-2019   #12
Steve Ruddy
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Well I feel like an idiot. I was printing on the wrong side of the paper.

Print looks gorgeous. I did discover that my custom profiles made with Color Munki Photo are not as good as the Canson profile.
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