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SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

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Old 02-20-2017   #41
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Sorry, what's the new E aperture system and why isn't it compatible with the F6?
Electronic aperture system similar to Canon. F6,5,100 can't talk to them. The lenses can shoot wide open and focus properly but that's it.
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Old 02-20-2017   #42
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The F6 is long overdue for an update. Besides compatibility with electronic aperture, it needs the AF systems from the D5.
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Old 02-20-2017   #43
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The F6 is long overdue for an update. Besides compatibility with electronic aperture, it needs the AF systems from the D5.
Have you got one? Why would it need the af of a D5 when it's as good as it is?
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Old 02-20-2017   #44
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I bought mine the first day they came out last Spring. The D5 autofocus is just incredible. I use the D5 for autoracing photography with lenses up to 400mm and a 2x converter. It is in focus as fast as I can move the camera. Images are seldom out of focus. And at over 10 frames per second, I start on the drivers eyes and the eyes stay in focus throughout the sequence. It is unreal.
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Old 02-20-2017   #45
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I bought mine the first day they came out last Spring. The D5 autofocus is just incredible. I use the D5 for autoracing photography with lenses up to 400mm and a 2x converter. It is in focus as fast as I can move the camera. Images are seldom out of focus. And at over 10 frames per second, I start on the drivers eyes and the eyes stay in focus throughout the sequence. It is unreal.
I don't think anyone is going to be shooting 10 frames/second with a 36 exposure film camera. LOL...

The F6 is the best Nikon film SLR ever and is a perfect match for its intended use. Most likely the last of the film cameras from Nikon, so it makes no sense to say it should have the same specs as a digital camera at least a decade newer. I understand the enthusiasm for the newer gear though.

The fact remains it is good enough and if I can't get a good photograph with the F6... Then I will quit photography.
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Old 02-20-2017   #46
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I was just thinking how much I hate it when the driver's eyes go blurry at 10 fps...

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Old 02-20-2017   #47
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The Nikon F6's (and all the professional Nikons) intended use is ANY photographic situation. That is what the Nikon flagship cameras are supposed to be. I don't know what you think the intended use is limited to. Sports photography is not ruled out for the F6 by some arbitrary delineation. The fact is the F6 should be better and state-of-the-art, not just "good enough". Your good photograph does not define the parameters of any camera.
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Old 02-20-2017   #48
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Originally Posted by View Range View Post
The Nikon F6's (and all the professional Nikons) intended use is ANY photographic situation. That is what the Nikon flagship cameras are supposed to be. I don't know what you think the intended use is limited to. Sports photography is not ruled out for the F6 by some arbitrary delineation. The fact is the F6 should be better and state-of-the-art, not just "good enough". Your good photograph does not define the parameters of any camera.
Not to start an argument with you but please realize the F6 is no longer just another camera in the line of the next big thing. It was designed many years ago and there will not be an upgrade AFAIK, let alone an F7.

Having shot, professionally, sports even 10 years ago, the F6 was not my consideration for use because it was a film camera. Too many issues trying to make a living shooting sports without trying to do it with a film camera.

So, yeah, I prefer my F6 over my Leica cameras because it CAN do it all but I choose not to use it for sports and certainly not at 8fps. I much prefer the D5 as you do.
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Old 02-20-2017   #49
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Maybe you're looking for a Nikon F7 instead. Don't hold your breath for that!
Nikon will have a reduced R&D budget, and it won't be spent on film cameras.
Incremental improvements and updates to the existing F6 will have to suffice.

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Old 02-20-2017   #50
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Originally Posted by View Range View Post
The Nikon F6's (and all the professional Nikons) intended use is ANY photographic situation. That is what the Nikon flagship cameras are supposed to be. I don't know what you think the intended use is limited to. Sports photography is not ruled out for the F6 by some arbitrary delineation. The fact is the F6 should be better and state-of-the-art, not just "good enough". Your good photograph does not define the parameters of any camera.
There used to be a great interview with one of the designers of the Nikon F6 on Nikon's website (which unfortunately looks like it has been removed) where he states that Nikon knew pros had mostly already moved to digital by the early 2000s so the Nikon F6 was designed from the ground up for a different market from the Nikon F5. Not a camera for pros who require all the bells and whistles for use in ANY photographic situation, but instead a more refined, smooth, and quiet camera more for advanced amateurs.

Edit: this looks like the interview!

http://www.nikonf6.net/resources/the...ique-pictures/
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Old 02-21-2017   #51
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
There used to be a great interview with one of the designers of the Nikon F6 on Nikon's website (which unfortunately looks like it has been removed) where he states that Nikon knew pros had mostly already moved to digital by the early 2000s so the Nikon F6 was designed from the ground up for a different market from the Nikon F5. Not a camera for pros who require all the bells and whistles for use in ANY photographic situation, but instead a more refined, smooth, and quiet camera more for advanced amateurs.

Edit: this looks like the interview!

http://www.nikonf6.net/resources/the...ique-pictures/
Thank you, Jon! I have been looking for that article for the longest. I now have it bookmarked.
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Old 02-21-2017   #52
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Originally Posted by SaveKodak View Post
Rad, I'd love to see your work if you have a link. You can see my (non-pro) wedding work on instagram @marksperry.
Thanks, I've send you a pm.

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Originally Posted by SaveKodak View Post
I totally want one of those 105/2s. I'd get the 1.4 except that Nikon abandoned film with new E aperture system and it's sooo expensive.
The AF-D 2/105 DC is an outstanding lens. One of the best lenses Nikon has ever made.
Perfect match on both all Nikon AF cameras as on all former Nikon MF cameras.
The performance of this lens is already very good at f2, and from f2,8 to f8 it is simply perfect!
Excellent contrast, excellent resolution, no significant vignetting at f2, no distortion at all, wonderful bokeh (with and without the DC feature), very solid construction.
I can highly recommend it.
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Old 02-21-2017   #53
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
There used to be a great interview with one of the designers of the Nikon F6 on Nikon's website (which unfortunately looks like it has been removed) where he states that Nikon knew pros had mostly already moved to digital by the early 2000s so the Nikon F6 was designed from the ground up for a different market from the Nikon F5. Not a camera for pros who require all the bells and whistles for use in ANY photographic situation, but instead a more refined, smooth, and quiet camera more for advanced amateurs.

Edit: this looks like the interview!

http://www.nikonf6.net/resources/the...ique-pictures/
Yes, that is the original interview.
But I think your interpretation is not quite right.
The designer said very clearly that they wanted to make the best professional film SLR ever, significantly surpassing the F5 (and EOS 1V):

"......And we want to make the F6 the best camera in every aspect.

Isn’t the ultimate goal to offer the best camera?


Definitely. We already had a high-speed, high-performance camera, the F5, in our lineup. In developing the F6, we intended to create a camera giving users even more of what they want than the F5 does. The development concept for the F5 was “high speed and high performance.” With the F6, we aimed to offer the functions of the F5, and also enhance the advantages of “finesse and practicality.”


"I must say that we reexamined all materials, although they had been used successfully in our existing cameras. Every single part was inspected from every aspect.
"We were not simply content with the current state of the art. Our attitude was to look for something better in order to create the best camera. I know that we achieved this because we were afforded a longer period than usual to develop the best camera that we could create."
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Old 02-21-2017   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Yes, that is the original interview.
But I think your interpretation is not quite right.
Actually the English is a translation of the original interview. The original interview in Japanese is here and I think I'm interpreting it correctly. The quality of the English translation is ok, but it could be better and misses some of the nuances of the original Japanese.

Quote:
"......And we want to make the F6 the best camera in every aspect.
For example, in the original Japanese the above sentence connects to what the designer said about designing the F6 first and foremost for photographers who want to shoot each frame with care and consideration i.e. make the F6 the best camera in every aspect for those shooters. In the English, the sentence is just out there flapping in the breeze not connected to anything.
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Old 02-21-2017   #55
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Originally Posted by View Range View Post
I bought mine the first day they came out last Spring. The D5 autofocus is just incredible. I use the D5 for autoracing photography with lenses up to 400mm and a 2x converter. It is in focus as fast as I can move the camera. Images are seldom out of focus. And at over 10 frames per second, I start on the drivers eyes and the eyes stay in focus throughout the sequence. It is unreal.
From your answer it appears you don't have an F6 so best you don't knock it before you heave actually used one. Having had an F5 whose AF was fast enough for film pros I can say that although not as torque brutal as the F5 the F6 can hold its own so no update required.
If you need 10 fps I'd suggest sticking with your D5 as you may be waiting a long time for an F7.
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Old 02-21-2017   #56
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Actually the English is a translation of the original interview. The original interview in Japanese is here and I think I'm interpreting it correctly. The quality of the English translation is ok, but it could be better and misses some of the nuances of the original Japanese.

For example, in the original Japanese the above sentence connects to what the designer said about designing the F6 first and foremost for photographers who want to shoot each frame with care and consideration i.e. make the F6 the best camera in every aspect for those shooters. In the English, the sentence is just out there flapping in the breeze not connected to anything.
You seem determined to push the point that the F6 was designed for amateurs. Why even bother? Think about what all cameras are capable of and what they're used for, where the line blurs between amatuer and professional. I am a professional photographer, but my main camera is a D750. Kind of amatuer, used prfessionally. I also have a Rolleiflex and Pentax 6x7 kit. One debatably "made for amateurs," one certainly for professionals. Though countless professionals and amateurs have used both both professionally and for amatuer work.

Plus, the pro capabilities of Nikon's flagship line are really only useful these days to sports and certain photojournalist shooters. D810/D750s by and large will not let wedding/ad photographers down, and you can afford to have more of them which is more reliable than any 1 pro body.

The same arguments could be applied to every single Leica made too, though I have made money with my Leica cameras too. I don't consider them professional or amatuer, they're just cameras. In fact, that's basically how I think of all my cameras, right down to my Holga and iPhone.

So, with all due respect, I would encourage you to abandon this line of thought that leaves certain cameras in a "professional" box, and certain in "amatuer". It's just limited thinking, and it alienates people you're trying to talk to.

My final point would be...one of my most embarrassing moments in my career came early. I was sitting at a table with Sylvia Plachy and some other peers, this was just out of college. I was chatting with everyone and remarked that I still hadn't decided what "kind of photographer" I want to be. Sylvia pretty plainly put me in my place by saying something like, "I never thought I needed to decide."

The F6 doesn't need to be anyone's professional camera or amatuer camera. It's just the most technologically advanced film SLR they've ever made. Full stop.
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Well Put
Old 02-21-2017   #57
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Well Put

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveKodak View Post
You seem determined to push the point that the F6 was designed for amateurs. Why even bother? Think about what all cameras are capable of and what they're used for, where the line blurs between amatuer and professional. I am a professional photographer, but my main camera is a D750. Kind of amatuer, used prfessionally. I also have a Rolleiflex and Pentax 6x7 kit. One debatably "made for amateurs," one certainly for professionals. Though countless professionals and amateurs have used both both professionally and for amatuer work.

Plus, the pro capabilities of Nikon's flagship line are really only useful these days to sports and certain photojournalist shooters. D810/D750s by and large will not let wedding/ad photographers down, and you can afford to have more of them which is more reliable than any 1 pro body.

The same arguments could be applied to every single Leica made too, though I have made money with my Leica cameras too. I don't consider them professional or amatuer, they're just cameras. In fact, that's basically how I think of all my cameras, right down to my Holga and iPhone.

So, with all due respect, I would encourage you to abandon this line of thought that leaves certain cameras in a "professional" box, and certain in "amatuer". It's just limited thinking, and it alienates people you're trying to talk to.

My final point would be...one of my most embarrassing moments in my career came early. I was sitting at a table with Sylvia Plachy and some other peers, this was just out of college. I was chatting with everyone and remarked that I still hadn't decided what "kind of photographer" I want to be. Sylvia pretty plainly put me in my place by saying something like, "I never thought I needed to decide."

The F6 doesn't need to be anyone's professional camera or amatuer camera. It's just the most technologically advanced film SLR they've ever made. Full stop.
Wanted to say well put, nothing to add.
John B. Crane
Curator, the Nikon F6 Project.
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Old 02-21-2017   #58
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Originally Posted by SaveKodak View Post
You seem determined to push the point that the F6 was designed for amateurs. Why even bother? Think about what all cameras are capable of and what they're used for, where the line blurs between amatuer and professional.
The F6 is certainly a camera that can be, and is, used by professional photographers. I'm not denying that.

In my 2nd post in this thread, instead of advanced amateur, perhaps I should have written "Not a camera for pros who require all the bells and whistles for use in ANY photographic situation, but instead a more refined, smooth, and quiet camera more for photographers who want to shoot each frame with care and consideration.

I worked at Nikon for nine years before becoming a freelance translator three years ago. I didn't translate that interview, but am pretty sure I could have done a better job if I did
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Old 02-21-2017   #59
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
The F6 is certainly a camera that can be, and is, used by professional photographers. I'm not denying that.

In my 2nd post in this thread, instead of advanced amateur, perhaps I should have written "Not a camera for pros who require all the bells and whistles for use in ANY photographic situation, but instead a more refined, smooth, and quiet camera for photographers who want to shoot each frame with care and consideration.

I worked at Nikon for nine years before becoming a freelance translator three years ago. I didn't translate that interview, but am pretty sure I could have done a better job if I did
Now you're speaking diplomatically.

I think the blaze away shooting is decidedly the territory of digital photography. Even I as a film-evangelist might question anyone who wanted to shoot something like sports on film.
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Old 02-21-2017   #60
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The F6 doesn't need to be anyone's professional camera or amatuer camera. It's just the most technologically advanced film SLR they've ever made. Full stop.
+1.
For me the content of this interview is very clear:
Nikon wanted to make the best 35mm SLR for both professional and enthusiast photographers. The best 35mm SLR in general.
And as someone who is using the F6 for years intensively (and has also used former Nikons like the F100 and F5, and Canon's EOS 1V) I can absolutely say - without any doubt - that Nikon was totally successful and reached their target!

The F6 is much much improved to all former Nikons including the F100 and F5. All of the design flaws of the F5 are gone in the F6. Nikon really listened to all the critic of professional photographers concerning the F5. They solved all problems excellently with the F6.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 02-21-2017   #61
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Does anyone know how many rolls you can get out of 1 EN-EL4a battery?
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Old 02-22-2017   #62
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Does anyone know how many rolls you can get out of 1 EN-EL4a battery?
The official Nikon data sheet says 35 - 65 36exp. rolls depending on the lenses, settings and shooting operations (VR yes/no, active time of the meter, which AF mode, how much AF operation, which shutter speed etc.).

As some others here in the thread, I am using the Panasonic Eneloops and the MB-40 vertical grip / power grip.
I am very satiesfied with both. Optimal combination for me.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 02-22-2017   #63
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Agreed.
I've used the F90X, F100, F5 and some high-end SLRs from other companies for years.
And then I switched to the F6. I've never regretted it. Best 35mm SLR ever.
Much much improved to all former Nikons including the F100 and F5. All of the design flaws of the F5 are gone in the F6. Nikon really listened to the critic of professional photographers concerning the F5. They solved all problems excellently with the F6.

Those who criticise (or even bash) the F6 in forums have never used it. They simply don't know what they are talking about.

I recommend the F100 and F5 for poor people with a very low income and students.
For all others with a normal income I highly recommend a new F6 with MB-40 as a "once in a lifetime" camera for the coming decades.

Cheers, Jan
Just to explain my statement more precisely.
Here are some of the advantages of the F6 compared to the F100 (and partly F5):

- colour matrix metering, even with older manual Nikkors (and the current Zeiss, Voigtländer, Samyang etc. lenses)
- improved database for the metering system
- i-TTL flash system (which works excellently, especially with fill-in flash)
- much better autofocus system with perfect AF-field layout
- more precise autofocus (and manual focus with the AF indicator)
- MLU
- mirror and shutter are much better damped, the F6 can be used with longer shutter times hand held
- works very silently
- much more robust construction, made for professinal use
- much better ergonomics
- much better vertical grip with better ergonomics and functionality
- better viewfinder
- 8 fps with MB-40
- film rewind in two speeds plus complete silent film rewind with a traditional crank
- integrated data back
- perfect EXIF data storage (seeable on the rear monitor; transferrable onto a computer with either the Nikon MV-1 data-reader or the new Meta 35 data-reader)
- perfect custom function system
- very precise, self-calibrating shutter
- perfect sliding covers for the PC sync and remote control pins
- still available new with full guarantee.

That are some of the main advantages. There are lots of further improved details.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 02-22-2017   #64
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The official Nikon data sheet says 35 - 65 36exp. rolls depending on the lenses, settings and shooting operations (VR yes/no, active time of the meter, which AF mode, how much AF operation, which shutter speed etc.).

As some others here in the thread, I am using the Panasonic Eneloops and the MB-40 vertical grip / power grip.
I am very satiesfied with both. Optimal combination for me.

Cheers, Jan
That's so many rolls haha. Given that I still have a D700 as my 2nd body at weddings I'm going to take everyone's advice and pick up the grip and the BL-3 adapter. Seems like a no-brainer to go all Li-Ion instead of those pesky CR123As. Though I will certainly miss the size advantage without the grip. Bah-humbug to non-standard batteries. I still resent the PX28 that I have to use in my Pentax 6x7.
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Old 02-22-2017   #65
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Though I will certainly miss the size advantage without the grip.
In my experience there is big advantage in ergonomics with the MB-40 grip (in general, for shots both in horizontal and of course especially in vertical direction). I am always using it.
And the different power options with the MB-40 are just great.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 02-22-2017   #66
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Wanted to say well put, nothing to add.
John B. Crane
Curator, the Nikon F6 Project.
Hi, John,

Glad to see you here, welcome!

I want to thank you for all your work and contributions to sharing your experiences with the Nikon F6. I thoroughly enjoy your work. Please keep it going!!😃
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Old 02-25-2017   #67
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Hi, John,

Glad to see you here, welcome!

I want to thank you for all your work and contributions to sharing your experiences with the Nikon F6. I thoroughly enjoy your work. Please keep it going!!😃
+1 !

One very important aspect for me why I am so satiesfied with the F6:
No GAS anymore!!
With the F6, I can do 99,99% of what I need / want.
No limitation by the camera anymore.
If there is a problem or a bottleneck, then it is maybe me and my limitations, but not the camera .

That leads to a very free and relaxed feeling in photography for me.
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Old 03-08-2017   #68
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Wanted to say well put, nothing to add.
John B. Crane
Curator, the Nikon F6 Project.
Dear John,

let me say a "hello" and a very big "thank you" for your wonderful work with your "Nikon F6 Project"
http://www.nikonf6.net/

It is an excellent source of information about the F6 and photography.
Please continue your work!!
Thanks!

Cheers, Jan
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Old 09-20-2017   #69
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And at over 10 frames per second, I start on the drivers eyes and the eyes stay in focus throughout the sequence. It is unreal.
How do you see their eyes through the face shields on their helmets?
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Old 09-20-2017   #70
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I am about to put my one owner F6 up for sale here, regrettably, once I get pictures done for the ad. If anyone is interested, PM me.
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Old 09-20-2017   #71
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Electronic aperture control instead of manual. Only cameras D3 era and up can talk to the e lenses. A shame.
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Old 09-20-2017   #72
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Thanks, I've send you a pm.



The AF-D 2/105 DC is an outstanding lens. One of the best lenses Nikon has ever made.
Perfect match on both all Nikon AF cameras as on all former Nikon MF cameras.
The performance of this lens is already very good at f2, and from f2,8 to f8 it is simply perfect!
Excellent contrast, excellent resolution, no significant vignetting at f2, no distortion at all, wonderful bokeh (with and without the DC feature), very solid construction.
I can highly recommend it.
Would you choose it over the 85 1.4 AF-D?
Thinking of a tele for portaits to go with my 17-35 2.8 to cover all my needs
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Old 09-21-2017   #73
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Would you choose it over the 85 1.4 AF-D?
Thinking of a tele for portaits to go with my 17-35 2.8 to cover all my needs
Yes, I would choose the AF-D 2/105 DC Nikkor over the AF-D 1.4/85 Nikkor.
The reasons why I prefer the 105 DC:
1. It has better optics: The 105 has a very even performance across the whole frame. It is excellent both in the middle and also at the corners, and that already from f2.0 on.
Whereas the 1.4/85 is very good in the middle, but much weaker outside the middle. The performance is quite un-even across the frame.
And the 105 DC has no focus shift, whereas the 85 has a focus shift when stopping down.

2. I prefer the 105mm focal length for portraits, because you can also get pure headshots without any 'distortion' in the face. The proportions between the nose, eyes and ears remain intact at a subject distance of about 0.9 - 1 meter.
Whereas with 85mm focal length there is a very slight distortion at closest distance, and you can't get pure headshots at closest distance of the lens.

3. The DC function is a very nice addition. I like it for certain subjects.
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Old 09-21-2017   #74
seagrove
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Originally Posted by SaveKodak View Post
Personally I thought the old D2H AF system would show it's rear in ways my D750s AF doesn't. I'm pleasantly surprised at how good it is.
I used a pair of D2H bodies for a decade as a newspaper shooter and loved them! The 11-point sensor points I thought (and still do) were perfectly placed for my style of shooting. And the autofocus was just flat amazing as far as my needs. Having so many autofocus points these days makes it more difficult to change quickly like I could do on my D2H. Just my $0.02 worth.
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Old 09-21-2017   #75
jbtran
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Yes, I would choose the AF-D 2/105 DC Nikkor over the AF-D 1.4/85 Nikkor.
The reasons why I prefer the 105 DC:
1. It has better optics: The 105 has a very even performance across the whole frame. It is excellent both in the middle and also at the corners, and that already from f2.0 on.
Whereas the 1.4/85 is very good in the middle, but much weaker outside the middle. The performance is quite un-even across the frame.
And the 105 DC has no focus shift, whereas the 85 has a focus shift when stopping down.

2. I prefer the 105mm focal length for portraits, because you can also get pure headshots without any 'distortion' in the face. The proportions between the nose, eyes and ears remain intact at a subject distance of about 0.9 - 1 meter.
Whereas with 85mm focal length there is a very slight distortion at closest distance, and you can't get pure headshots at closest distance of the lens.

3. The DC function is a very nice addition. I like it for certain subjects.
Hello Skiff,

Have you used the AF-D 2/135 DC Nikkor? If so, how does it compare to the 105mm and the 85mm above?

Thanks,
Joseph
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Old 09-21-2017   #76
SaveKodak
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Originally Posted by jbtran View Post
Hello Skiff,

Have you used the AF-D 2/135 DC Nikkor? If so, how does it compare to the 105mm and the 85mm above?

Thanks,
Joseph
They are almost identical in "performance". The only real difference is the extra reach if you need it. Frankly I'm surprised they made both, but if I was buying one or the other I'd have a hard time choosing.
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Old 09-21-2017   #77
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Originally Posted by Mudman View Post
Electronic aperture control instead of manual. Only cameras D3 era and up can talk to the e lenses. A she.
A big shame, as I would love to use some of these new E lenses. Thank goodness they got the 58 out before switching over. The 28 & 105 E lenses look absolutely amazing. OTOH they are way too expensive so maybe I'm better off...
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Old 09-21-2017   #78
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Originally Posted by jbtran View Post
Hello Skiff,

Have you used the AF-D 2/135 DC Nikkor? If so, how does it compare to the 105mm and the 85mm above?

Thanks,
Joseph
Hi Joseph,

yes, I have. The 105 DC is the "younger" one (introduced 1993), the 135 DC the older one (introduced 1990).
And Nikon indeed improved the younger 105 significantly compared to the older 135: The 105 has higher contrast, better sharpness and higher resolution compared to the 135.
The 135 is a very good lens, but the 105 is outstanding and one of the best lenses Nikon has ever produced.
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Old 09-21-2017   #79
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Originally Posted by seagrove View Post
I used a pair of D2H bodies for a decade as a newspaper shooter and loved them! The 11-point sensor points I thought (and still do) were perfectly placed for my style of shooting. And the autofocus was just flat amazing as far as my needs. Having so many autofocus points these days makes it more difficult to change quickly like I could do on my D2H. Just my $0.02 worth.
+1.
The AF focus sensor lay-out of the F6 is perfect.
And I agree, the ridiculous high number of very tiny AF sensors in current DSLRs/DSLMs is more a marketing gimmick and something that often made it more difficult to use the AF.
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Old 09-22-2017   #80
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Thank you for your answers, Skiff and SaveKodak.
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