The announced Zenit M
Old 12-29-2018   #1
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The announced Zenit M

What did I miss about this brand new digital rangefinder camera with a 1.1/35mm lens?
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Old 12-29-2018   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
What did I miss about this brand new digital rangefinder camera with a 1.1/35mm lens?
It is made in very limited numbers, so it is hardly worth lusting after.
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Old 12-29-2018   #3
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Preorder page is availible on Zenit.camera for this M240 copy with 35 f1 attached, sorry, M240 attached to 35 f1.

They say if you click on preorder with your name, email and phone number, next page is aknowlegemnt from you to believe in Russian White Elephant as most peaceful elephant on Earth.
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Old 12-29-2018   #4
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Any news about the price and availability in particular markets?
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Old 12-29-2018   #5
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It was announced a while back and then everything went silent. No idea if it is actually being produced.
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Old 12-29-2018   #6
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It was on Petapixel a couple of months back as I was intrigued by it and found it a little odd they went with Zenit as that name was used for KMZs SLRs, the Rangefinders from there were generally Zorkis.

It is just a tarted up Leica M, can't remember if the optic were a rebadge or not though.
It was Xayraa says very limited and only released to the Russian market with the menus in Cryllic which is a shame as it would have gone down well in the UK as KMZ products were heavily imported here back in their heyday before the fall of the USSR.
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Old 12-29-2018   #7
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I don't have anything against elephants...but white elephants...I don't know... ;-)
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Old 12-29-2018   #8
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Quote:
only released to the Russian market with the menus in Cryllic which is a shame as it would have gone down well in the UK as KMZ products were heavily imported here back in their heyday before the fall of the USSR.
I read it would be available in Europe this year and outside Europe next year...but is it true...
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Old 12-29-2018   #9
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The rep said only 500 units will be made and sold with the Russian made lens as a set.

The samples of images shown taken by this lens did not impress me bokeh wise, very similar OOF areas as my 35mm Mir 24 lens, not my favourite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KjPPdlcLUw
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Old 12-29-2018   #10
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Interestingly weird... Why sink money into this without a market? Prestige...oligarch arrogance...a mix of both?
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Old 12-29-2018   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Interestingly weird... Why sink money into this without a market? Prestige...oligarch arrogance...a mix of both?
Plenty of well to do Russians with money to spend, also camera collectors might desire it for their collection and it is made in small numbers (500) for a limited time only, perfect thing for a collector.

Leica got to use up their Leica M type 240 parts and the whole kit is not being sold at bargain basement prices either.
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Old 12-29-2018   #12
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Well, I've lived in that part of the world for a good number of years but this project required some serious investment and dedication. Happy to hear the final story about this venture whenever it emerges...if ever.
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Old 12-29-2018   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
It is made in very limited numbers, so it is hardly worth lusting after.
Wouldn't its limited availability make it even more lust-worthy?
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Old 12-29-2018   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby.monkey View Post
Wouldn't its limited availability make it even more lust-worthy?
I recall the president of a certain huuuuuge country talking about the topic of his country's prostitutes, that of course —— since prostitution is illegal —— do *not* exist, but: they're the best worldwide, of course
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Old 12-29-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby.monkey View Post
Wouldn't its limited availability make it even more lust-worthy?
It depends if you want it to collect or if you want it to use as an everyday camera.

It is not a cheap camera to buy in the first place (5500 euros) and we are now approaching the halcyon days of FF mirrorless cameras with many new models to show up by different manufacturers in the very near future.

As the "cost versus usability ratio", it is not a good deal even if you manage to get hold of one as a kit in an era where a Sony A7II with kit lens can be bought new.. sometimes for a low price, as under a grand USD in the USA.
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Old 12-29-2018   #16
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Not talking about this Zeica specifically, but is any digital camera collectible?
You can take a 25, 50, 100 year old film camera and it still works. But will a 50 yr old digital camera just be a fancy paperweight?
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Old 12-29-2018   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Not talking about this Zeica specifically, but is any digital camera collectible?
You can take a 25, 50, 100 year old film camera and it still works. But will a 50 yr old digital camera just be a fancy paperweight?
Fifty years from now SoCal eco police will execute you on the spot for owning functioning film camera. It is going to be worse than already banned and eliminated guns. Because it will be device triggering unauthorized water use and animals abuse, which were considered as highest crime under Chelsea Clinton SoCal progressive governor.

While beard and mustache guys in Silicon Valley eco shoppes will convert any digital or film camera to solar operating device with 3D printed sensor and electronics. Because it is SoCal after all.

And of course Russian will still make M240 cameras after getting entire Wetzlar factory to Putinograd (ex St. Peterburg).
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Old 12-29-2018   #18
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Fifty years from now SoCal eco police will execute you on the spot for owning functioning film camera. It is going to be worse than already banned and eliminated guns. Because it will be device triggering unauthorized water use and animals abuse, which were considered as highest crime under Chelsea Clinton SoCal progressive governor.

While beard and mustache guys in Silicon Valley eco shoppes will convert any digital or film camera to solar operating device with 3D printed sensor and electronics. Because it is SoCal after all.

And of course Russian will still make M240 cameras after getting entire Wetzlar factory to Putinograd (ex St. Peterburg).
Waaaaait! I would have thought the beard and mustache guys in Silicon Valley should have become monks; heck, entire Silicon Valley should have become one huuuuge Russian Orthodox monastery! Th3r3 th3y can bu1ld by hand —— 1cons, *the real thing* —— especially Saint Vlad is very much sought after!

Remind me please, dear Kostya, that I have to tell Chelsea that this point must be included into the Russian-Kalifornian Druzhba-treaty
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Old 12-29-2018   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
It depends if you want it to collect or if you want it to use as an everyday camera.

It is not a cheap camera to buy in the first place (5500 euros) and we are now approaching the halcyon days of FF mirrorless cameras with many new models to show up by different manufacturers in the very near future.

As the "cost versus usability ratio", it is not a good deal even if you manage to get hold of one as a kit in an era where a Sony A7II with kit lens can be bought new.. sometimes for a low price, as under a grand USD in the USA.
By that logic, why buy a digital Leica M? The Typ 240 is about the same price without offering a stupidly-fast 35mm, and is positively common in comparison.

At least some effort went into making this camera different from its source body, unlike something like Hasselblad's FX-format piss-takes.
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Old 12-29-2018   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby.monkey View Post
By that logic, why buy a digital Leica M? The Typ 240 is about the same price without offering a stupidly-fast 35mm, and is positively common in comparison.

At least some effort went into making this camera different from its source body, unlike something like Hasselblad's FX-format piss-takes.
A Leica is still a Leica, right or wrong the name has cachet and still can be sold for a hefty price even used after a decade or so, and this is for their digital models.

The stupidly-fast lens is not impressive in its drawing performance and there are now fast Chinese made M mount lenses that sell for a song and these seem to perform a bit better than this Russian made M mount lens in my opinion from the photo samples shown.

The Russian made lens is in that recent Chinese made lens class or ballpark, it is certainly no CV made lens in quality let alone a Leica made lens.

For me that Russian lens would be a throw-away and the 5500 euro cost would be to get the camera body (which makes the whole deal a very expensive endeavour).

Plus I already own a variety of Leitz lenses and CV lenses in M & LTM mount at present and I am not enamoured with super fast (anything faster then f1.4) high speed lenses or so-so quality fast lenses in general.

I am not faulting anyone for making this kit, it is what it is, only 500 pieces.. so it is not a serious production endeavour to go head to head with Leica or Sony or Canikon.
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The announced Zenit M
Old 12-30-2018   #21
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The announced Zenit M

Would a company really gear up to make a mere 500 bodies? This could be just to get them started with a bit of a splash, what comes after might be more interesting. The guy on the video mentions advice from Leica, full Russian production etc. I certainly hope it's more than just a short, fancy goods run.
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Old 12-30-2018   #22
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I remain intrigued...Leica apparently decided to lend its good name to Zenit M project for a reason...
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Old 12-30-2018   #23
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If Zenit is only going to produce 500 bodies, surely Leica just made the bodies for them, and Zenit (or some subcontractor) did the lenses.
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Old 12-30-2018   #24
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Surely not...the investment in machinery alone would leave Leica with a huge loss.
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Old 12-30-2018   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
I remain intrigued...Leica apparently decided to lend its good name to Zenit M project for a reason...
The apparent answer is: It's a very good time now to have Russian friends!

—— That's not *that* difficult to understand, is it?
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Old 12-30-2018   #26
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If Leica made a film version for Zenit, based on the MA, I'd be all over it.
But a digicam? Nope.
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Old 12-30-2018   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
I remain intrigued...Leica apparently decided to lend its good name to Zenit M project for a reason...
It is internal political project. To show for stupid masses how Russia is able to make their old, good time (Soviet) goodies. Tanks, rocket and Zenit.
But because now Russia is totally dependent on external manufacturing of electronics, they have to fake it. Just like they made some super intelligent apparatus ... based on Lego.
https://newizv.ru/news/incident/20-0...iyskogo-robota
Now you know about Russian White Elephant.

Same person likes Leicas:
https://petapixel.com/2011/08/18/the...-his-leica-s2/
Again, how to show the world the Russian White Elephant as most peaceful elephant on Earth and still have decent camera for new-soviet apparatchiks? Easy, Germans are always willing to help Russians.
Especially if it is profitable contract.
https://www.dw.com/en/german-busines...der/a-40761086

If Leica is able to sell so-so M10 and bunch of so-so lenses under ridiculous prices for general public, why do you think they will reject to sell few old Leica cameras to some third world location? In nineties Mercedes Benz was ready to close G Wagon series, but it became very popular among new Russians.
Again, I doubt the private contract "total" and official camera prices are correlated.
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Old 12-31-2018   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Again, how to show the world the Russian White Elephant as most peaceful elephant on Earth and still have decent camera for new-soviet apparatchiks? Easy, Germans are always willing to help Russians.
Especially if it is profitable contract.
https://www.dw.com/en/german-busines...der/a-40761086
Correction: Leica Camera chairman Dr. Andreas Kaufmann, while born in Germany, is AFAIK *not* German by birth -- his natural nationality is that of that certain Alpine country which is famous for its marvellous ski resorts where, among other tourists, tremendously rich Russians, and Russians otherwise having a lot of influence, love to spend their winter holidays
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Old 12-31-2018   #29
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I didn't realize it is even more obvios
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Old 12-31-2018   #30
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I didn't realize it is even more obvios
Haha, you have seen my country's Foreign Minister dancing with The President, I guess
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Old 12-31-2018   #31
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This thread has veered off a bit.
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Old 12-31-2018   #32
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This thread has veered off a bit.

Actually it is spot on right now. We are trying to explain to OP what he belives in Russian White Elephant if he think what Zenit M would be availible for him or else from abroad.
But you never know.
I was at Moscow-Helsinki train which is famous for smugglers .
Dude in our semi cabin told me how they sold to USA collector the Soviet made anti-tank missile. One with camera attached to the missile.
They have it in same semi-cabin, another day.
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Old 12-31-2018   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
This thread has veered off a bit.
Not that fast -- is the product in question actually just a publicity stunt?
-- Yes No IDK?
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Old 12-31-2018   #34
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It makes more sense from a business perspective that Leica teamed up with Huawei for a better smartphone.
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Old 12-31-2018   #35
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It makes more sense from a business perspective that Leica teamed up with Huawei for a better smartphone.
emph.: «business»

But there's quite more than «business», particularly when one, like Leica's chairman, is living with his family in a nice villa in the State of Salzburg; Salzburg (well, basically the entire Republic of Austria) is unfortunately next door to several NATO countries, and just 1,800 km away from Moscow
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Old 12-31-2018   #36
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It makes more sense from a business perspective that Leica teamed up with Huawei for a better smartphone.
Raid, how many contracts you have signed between foreign and Russian companies?
Must be none.
The beauty of contracts like this is (often) in the sweet margine under mutual agreement.
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Old 12-31-2018   #37
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It's just a KMZ Special Edition M240. You'd wonder where all other limited edition M240 went as well.
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Old 12-31-2018   #38
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Raid, how many contracts you have signed between foreign and Russian companies?
Must be none.
The beauty of contracts like this is (often) in the sweet margine under mutual agreement.
Exactly. Or in other words, as I've written previously:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
The apparent answer is: It's a very good time now to have Russian friends!

—— That's not *that* difficult to understand, is it?
Making such a contract is even better than having that



on your door
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Old 12-31-2018   #39
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Maybe the discussion here should be on the camera and its labeling and projected sales and not on politics?
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Old 12-31-2018   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Maybe the discussion here should be on the camera and its labeling and projected sales and not on politics?
You have watched the video, Raid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
The rep said only 500 units will be made and sold with the Russian made lens as a set.

The samples of images shown taken by this lens did not impress me bokeh wise, very similar OOF areas as my 35mm Mir 24 lens, not my favourite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KjPPdlcLUw
We're talking about 500 cameras, 400 for the Russian market (incl. Ex-USSR-states), and 100 for "Europe"; in other words: this particular product is completely MEANINGLESS, except the politics.
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