New to 28mm, any tricks?
Old 09-06-2018   #1
Joran
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New to 28mm, any tricks?

Last couple of years I've used 35mm as my preferred focal length for street photography. Today I'll picking up a 28mm Summicron for use on my M6.

Are there certain tricks for shooting a 28mm? I'm quite tall (1.90m) do I need to squat on the streets? Just curious.
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Old 09-06-2018   #2
ACullen
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I wouldn’t say there are any tricks as such. I used 28mm as my preferred SLR wide angle but only added a 28 to my M2 set up. I sold a CV25 LTM to get a CV28 to give as wide an
angle on the M2 without using an external VF ( i also already had a ZM25).

So whilst I love the 35mm fl I’ve found it seamless adding the 28. I don’t get those that say that 28 and 35 are too close to bother with both. For me the 28 is an obvious wide angle where as 35mm gives a perspective that fits into the “normal” range (35-58mm)
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Old 09-06-2018   #3
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Squatting or lowering your position (one knee on the ground) can create interesting images. If you are concerned with vertical lines (buildings etc.) in the background you might want to hold the camera level rather than point down... depends on the situation. Use the wideness of the lens to capture the subject... many times the issue is too much sky and the resulting under exposure of the lower part of the frame, depending on your metering technique. Distance from the subject is a consideration...

Just shoot a bit and it becomes clear ; )
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Old 09-06-2018   #4
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Get closer to your foreground subject
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Old 09-06-2018   #5
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As you tilt the camera up or down you will notice that this increases perspective distortion.

Equally, perspective distortion is increased with subjects in the near distance (1-3m) and/or towards the edges of the frame.

I love using my 28. I hope you will too
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Old 09-06-2018   #6
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As the zen master once said, “no tricks, just shoot.”
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Old 09-06-2018   #7
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I'm 188.5 never been a problem at 20mm.

If you want to learn how to use 28mm lens on the street get Winogrand book and study it.
GW archive is available here:
http://ccp-emuseum.catnet.arizona.ed...0-c2a66cac1991

To me 28mm is where get to it close or have something close focal length starts.
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Old 09-06-2018   #8
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If you shoot a M-body use the 90mm frames as the middle rectangle as in "the rule of thirds." this is very helpful in composition.

I generally use F5.6 for maximum DOF without difraction most of the time for street. I set the distance scale at 7-8 feet and have a "kill zone" from 5-10 feet where I basically can point and shoot.

Also the field of view is so easy to remember. If my subject is say 7 feet away from me and I'm shooting a vertical then I can expect to get a tight head-to-toe shot, but I have to drop to one knee or bend down while keeping my camera vertical. Pretty much use an equalateral triangle to remember framing using my distance to subject as matching my frame length.

The 28 Cron is a great-great lens. Don't be afraid to get close to your subject. For me a 28 over a 35 gives me that "all at once FOV" of a wide, while I can use a 35mm as my normal. Don't be shy. The 28 has its own look over a 35mm IMHO if you exploit being able to get closer and tighter.

BTW the 28 Cron is my most favored wide, although I also love my 35/1.8 Nikkor in LTM.

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Old 09-06-2018   #9
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Google Images for <Garry Winogrand> to see how its done.
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Old 09-06-2018   #10
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I own 21, 28, 35, and 50mm lenses but I rarely carry all at the same time. For street photography, I usually carry the 35 and 21. For landscapes, I prefer the 28 and 50.

On the other hand, I have a colleague who is an excellent street shooter and prefers the 28 and 50 for street.
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Old 09-06-2018   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
It really is a pleasure to watch him work. He appears to have been short. I'm 6'1" and find 28 distortion an issue, obviously more so as I get closer. I'm not a fan of bobbing, but sometimes it's necessary.

John
John,

I'm only 5'9" and I sometimes shoot from my chest. I even adjusted my camera strap so my rig hangs around my nipples. No bobbing required and once you understand the equalateral triangle relationship I mentioned above I don't have to even raise the camera to my eye.

Being able to frame a shot by the distance setting equaling the length of the frame allows for shooting without looking through the VF'er.

The big advantage of a 28 FOV is being able to get those quick shots and exploiting the added DOF over a 35.

Also in my style of shooting most of my shots with a 28 are verticals.

Cal
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Old 09-06-2018   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
That's one thing I like about digital P&S; you can shoot from the chest or lower using the LCD. A nicer viewpoint for street work, I feel.

John
John,

I can see how being tall might be a handicap and awkward when shooting a 28.

It would be interesting to know how tall Garry Winnogrand was.

I have this habit of dropping my right shoulder and turning my head almost as if taking a horizontal shot when taking a vertical. This is how I maintain "nipple height."

Cal
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Old 09-06-2018   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
Get closer to your foreground subject
Yep... ...
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Old 09-06-2018   #14
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Also, our own Bob Michaels, right here on RFF

(and elsewhere, http://www.bobmichaels.org/Cuba_intro.htm)


Bob is an ace with the 28 and people.
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Old 09-06-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
Get closer to your foreground subject
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Yep... ...
+2. The wide lens makes the foreground important, so it need to be filled with an important aspect of the composition!
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Old 09-06-2018   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
Get closer to your foreground subject

This ^^^^^. I mainly use a 28 when I need to get close to my subject.
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Old 09-06-2018   #17
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All of the above. And be careful metering slavishly with the red LEDs as the sky makes too big a contribution to the exposure with a 28.
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Old 09-06-2018   #18
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Excellent thread with great advice from experienced users - especially Calzone’s equilateral triangles - thanks.

I don’t do a lot of street but love the 28mm FL in general, with a particular fondness for low angle shots with foreground interest.
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Old 09-06-2018   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
All of the above. And be careful metering slavishly with the red LEDs as the sky makes too big a contribution to the exposure with a 28.
Under those circumstances, I take an incident light reading as a check on my reflected reading.
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Old 09-06-2018   #20
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Wow, thanks for all the reply's. Picked the Summicron up yesterday. What a great lens. I already own a 35mm Summicron V2. Amazing. I'll take it for a spin tomorrow in Amsterdam.

About the metering. I usually meter pointing slightly down, to my subjects to prevent underexposing.
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Old 09-07-2018   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
Pretty much use an equalateral triangle to remember framing using my distance to subject as matching my frame length.
Cal, I'm not following. Could you elaborate on this technique?
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Old 09-07-2018   #22
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how far away you are from your subject is the width of what will be in the frame (at the subject's distance).

if you are 10 feet away from a person, imagine there's a 10 foot line going left to right under the person's, uh, feet.
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Old 09-07-2018   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
how far away you are from your subject is the width of what will be in the frame (at the subject's distance).

if you are 10 feet away from a person, imagine there's a 10 foot line going left to right under the person's, uh, feet.
The triangle works with a 35mm lens for FF, 28mm is wider, around 13 feet in your example .

I'm always surprised about the huge difference between 28 and 35mm in regards to framing and composition. Big enough to grab quite often my F3 with the 28mm too and add it to my always with me Contax T3. Really sad, that the (Film) Ricoh GR is so prone to failure, would be the perfect companion.

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Old 09-07-2018   #24
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i can't do math anymore!
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Old 09-07-2018   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
i can't do math anymore!
you can and for sure better than me :-), but the horizontal angle of view for the 28mm is 65,5º and not 60º I tried several websites with calculations now, all say around 12,9 feet with 28mm, and 10,3 with the 35mm(around 54.4°)

for example: https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/...ens-calculator.

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Last edited by mod2001 : 09-07-2018 at 23:22. Reason: added link
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Old 09-07-2018   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
i can't do math anymore!
So the distance to the subject is the square root of 2 divided by 2, multiplied by the width of the frame; or ~0.7 times the width of the frame. I don’t know about the rest of you but I find this doesn’t really help me. Happy shooting with the 28.
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Old 09-08-2018   #27
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Quote:
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you can and for sure better than me :-), but the horizontal angle of view for the 28mm is 65,5º and not 60º I tried several websites with calculations now, all say around 12,9 feet with 28mm, and 10,3 with the 35mm(around 54.4°)

for example: https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/...ens-calculator.

Jürgen
But my info shows the Summicron 28mm v.1 has a 76° angle of view and the v.2 has 75°... Typo?
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Old 09-08-2018   #28
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a typical 28mm lens will have 65° - 46° - 75° angle of view depending if you are talking about width, height, or diagonal ; )
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Old 09-08-2018   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shimokita View Post
a typical 28mm lens will have 65° - 46° - 75° angle of view depending if you are talking about width, height, or diagonal ; )
Exactly, and for the example mentioned above we have to use the value for width, means around 65°.

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Old 09-08-2018   #30
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Let's try to make it easier, we do not go out with a goniometer

You shoot horizontally with a 35mm lens and your subject is 12 feet from you: the longest side of your frame will be 12 feet.

With a 28 it will be a little more, let's say 15 more or less.

But the best way is "learn" a lens is to shoot, shoot snd than shoot again and evaluate results!

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Old 09-08-2018   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shimokita View Post
a typical 28mm lens will have 65° - 46° - 75° angle of view depending if you are talking about width, height, or diagonal ; )
__________

I have the 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M ASPH, the data sheet gives the following:

Angle view (diagonal, horizontal, vertical)

For 35 mm (24 x 36 mm): 75°/65°/46°

for M8 (18 x 27 mm): 60°/51°/36°
corresponds to a focal length of approx. 37 mm with 35 mm-format
__________

For the Summicron-M 28mm f/2 ASPH. the technical data sheet added "ca." to the angle of view and indicated (for vertical) 35° rather than 36° Summicron vs. Elmarit on an M8

Angle view (diagonal, horizontal, vertical)
For 35 mm (24 x 36 mm): ca. 74°/65°/46°;
for M8 (18 x 27 mm): 60°/51/35°
__________

Checking the M10 and Monochrom below is the sensor size:

M10: Sensor CMOS sensor, active surface area approx. 24 x 36mm

Monochrom: B/W CMOS chip, active area approx. 23.9 × 35.8 mm
(corresponds to usable format of analog Leica M models)
__________

nit-picking but it seems that the angle of view might be slightly different depending on a couple of factors (?) ...

.

Last edited by shimokita : 09-08-2018 at 05:53. Reason: additional technical data
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Angle viewfinder?
Old 09-08-2018   #32
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Talking Angle viewfinder?

I think an angle viewfinder can save you a few inches.
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Old 09-08-2018   #33
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Quote:
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If you shoot a M-body use the 90mm frames as the middle rectangle as in "the rule of thirds." this is very helpful in composition.

....
Very cool tip!
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