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The right Film SLR next to Leica M6ttl. R6 or FM2/FM3a
Old 11-23-2017   #1
Roel
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The right Film SLR next to Leica M6ttl. R6 or FM2/FM3a

Hi guys,

I am looking for mechanical SLR to use next to my Leica M film bodies. Sometimes in the same bag and same projects. So i thought about Leica R glass.

Had a Eos3 quit on me cause of empty battery. No pics whatsoever. So Mechanical shutter is what i want.

Thinking about the R6(.2) with a 60mm and 28mm.

However i just handled a R3 and R4 yesterday and the R4 had much more shutter lag. Reading about it i come across some mentioning about shutter lag on the R6(.2) also..

If the R6 would have the shutter lag of the r4 I experienced i would not want to buy it. Not sure if the specific camera needed a cla.

Can any of the users confirm the R6 shutter is nice and responsive and can compare with the M system or is it there a real lag to be expected (even if CLAed recently) with the R6(.2)??

Or should i look for F3/fm3a and have the R-glass converted. And njoy also some other Nikon lens gems out there)


So what in your perspective would be the best choice if i want to have a solid and responsive SLR solution next to and comparable to the M6ttl and M5 or already have and Njoy.
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Old 11-23-2017   #2
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Don't SLR's by nature have a longer shutter lag? And image black out?
(Except for the Canon Pellix and Canon EOS-1N RS which both had fixed pellicle mirrors. Canon says the shutter lag on the RS is .006 second.)
But with a mirror that has to move out of the way and stop down linkage that has to stop down the lens before the shutter can start to travel then mechanical SLR's will be at a inherent disadvantage over a M5 or M6.

PS; Forgot the EOS RT from 1989 also had a fixed semi-transparent mirror and shutter lag of .008 sec. according to Canon's specs.

PSS; Canon also made versions of the F-1 and later New F-1 with a high speed MD and fixed mirror.
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Old 11-23-2017   #3
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True but on the Fm3a i once had the delay was not a problem. The R4 i tried yesterday had a lag so long I would not buy that camera for that alone. So within the category SLR there is a big difference.
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Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Don't SLR's by nature have a longer shutter lag? And image black out?
(Except for the Canon Pellix and Canon EOS-1N RS which both had fixed pellicle mirrors. Canon says the shutter lag on the RS is .006 second.)
But with a mirror that has to move out of the way and stop down linkage that has to stop down the lens before the shutter can start to travel then mechanical SLR's will be at a inherent disadvantage over a M5 or M6.

PS; Forgot the EOS RT from 1989 also had a fixed semi-transparent mirror and shutter lag of .008 sec. according to Canon's specs.

PSS; Canon also made versions of the F-1 and later New F-1 with a high speed MD and fixed mirror.
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Old 11-23-2017   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roel View Post
True but on the Fm3a i once had the delay was not a problem. The R4 i tried yesterday had a lag so long I would not buy that camera for that alone. So within the category SLR there is a big difference.
Then why not get another FM 3a? Or are you looking for a SLR that uses Leica lenses. Then that would limit you to Leicaflex, from the first model to the last. If you want an all mechanical camera then that would limit you to the original Leicaflex series, before they got into the R series (co-developed with Minolta for the early R models) I'm not sure from your original post whether sticking with Leica lenses is a requirement or just a preference.

Not sure if many companies published shutter delay specifications for their all mechanical cameras. The companies certainly knew the figures but I have not seen them in their advertising.

Just checked pricing on FM3a bodies, pricy little beast but I guess they have a good reputation.
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Old 11-23-2017   #5
p.giannakis
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If you want an R series mechanical Leica then it is only the R6(2). The rest have electronic shutters. Maybe the older SL series would be another option.
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Old 11-23-2017   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
. Canon says the shutter lag on the RS is .006 second.)
.
That is half the truth, I had an Rs. It was .006 sec ONCE focus was achieved, aperture closed to the selected value and the shutter went to the 'ready' position.
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Old 11-23-2017   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
If you want an R series mechanical Leica then it is only the R6(2). The rest have electronic shutters. Maybe the older SL series would be another option.
Ah, It's been so long I had forgotten the R6 was mechanical, nice looking update to the Leicaflex SL.
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Old 11-23-2017   #8
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Nothing wrong with the SL...
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Old 11-23-2017   #9
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After having Leitaxed a couple of R lenses for use on Nikon bodies, I quickly went back to using them as they were intended, on Leica bodies, for a variety of reasons which might just be personal preferences, mostly the viewfinders. FWIW, I much preferred to use either the Leicaflex SL or SL2 or R8 bodies to the 6.2, though the R8 is not fully mechanical, if that matters. There is really no way to know what will suit a given photographer best without actually owning and using the various options, or at least borrowing something for an extended period. It's the only way. Other's opinions are interesting, and worth hearing, but that's about it. There is nothing quite like a nice SL2. The 6.2 certainly isn't, though if one only looks at a spec sheet, it might seem the nicer choice. Using them both side by side tells a different story.
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Old 11-23-2017   #10
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R4 was my first camera and I still think it is one of the best SLR ever built. Problem is that the electronics will break up at some point. I had three R4s and they all failed. I'd rather get an R6.

But I don't understand why you would want three different systems (Leica RF, Nikon SLR, another differed SLR).
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Old 11-23-2017   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giganova View Post
R4 was my first camera and I still think it is one of the best SLR ever built. Problem is that the electronics will break up at some point. I had three R4s and they all failed. I'd rather get an R6.

But I don't understand why you would want three different systems (Leica RF, Nikon SLR, another differed SLR).
Thank you. I want to go to one system. Leica Glass. I have my M6tl (+m9) and will stick to it. I want to add film SLR. Leica R glass cause i think it will be the same family image wise.

Question is: Do i get a Leica R6 body with that glass or are the also mechanical Nikon fM2/FM3a better bodies to shoot with leitaxed R glas (R 60mm macro and R 28mm f2.8)

Is the R6 body nice and snappy (shutter wise) or are the Nikons much more responsive and a better choice because of that. (Have not had the chance to handle the R6 unfortunately, but i have handled the Nikon FM2/Fm3a)
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Old 11-23-2017   #12
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You're concerned about shutter delay but you're considering using adapted R glass that has to be manually stopped down, correct?
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Old 11-23-2017   #13
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I have tried several SLRs, most of them were mechanical. Never made more than ten rolls with any of them. Because SLRs, including R are not Leica, nor Bessa and not even Zorki...
IMOE. Njoy, indeed.
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Old 11-23-2017   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
You're concerned about shutter delay but you're considering using adapted R glass that has to be manually stopped down, correct?
You are totally right and that was a thing i didn't consider yet!

Guess the question remains if the R6 responsive enough for my feelings. Or decide to go Nikon camera and glass all the way.
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Old 11-23-2017   #15
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SL2 & 180/3.4

M6 with 50 and wider

B2 (;->
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Old 11-23-2017   #16
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The R glass isn't really much better than Nikon glass. If I were you, I'd go with FM2 and AI-S lenses. Killer combo!
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Old 11-23-2017   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roel View Post
Is the R6 body nice and snappy (shutter wise) or are the Nikons much more responsive and a better choice because of that. (Have not had the chance to handle the R6 unfortunately, but i have jangled the Nikon FM2/Fm3a)
The shutter of the R bodies is much more quiet and pleasant than that of the FM2. Here is my experience:

Medium Format: people duck when you hit the shutter, others laugh
Nikon FM2: people turn around to you
Leica R: most people won't notice
Leica M: after you exposed a roll of film, people will ask "When are you gonna take a picture?"
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Old 11-23-2017   #18
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I use an M6, an R6 and an FM2, each with native lenses. The shutter on the R6 feels less responsive relative to the others in part due to the travel of the release mechanism. That can be tuned by a repair person to a degree, but even taking the mirror travel out of the equation, it's a different design than the release on the M6. The FM2 feels "snappier" than the R6 for sure. Again though, that's using Nikon lenses.

The Nikon pairs well with the M6 in regard to size and weight. The R6 is a heavier and slightly larger camera whose fit and finish is a far closer cousin to the rangefinder Leica.

After shooting the FM2 for 32 years and the R6 for 10, my preference has landed on the R6.
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Last edited by dof : 11-23-2017 at 07:07. Reason: clarification
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Old 11-23-2017   #19
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My main concern using Nikon with Leica is all the opposite directions!
Mismatching Leica bayonet never happens, but Nikon can be jammed fitting lens wrong way..
My opinion is use glass designed and MADE for a body.
Nikkors to Nikon: Leica-R to Leica SLR:
I never, ever used Nikons with my Leicas.
All SLR have a slight delay compared to M response.
It is there and by practice taken into account.
The Leica R4 are known for unreliability in electronics.
I see as I use old cameras, electronics are the famous Achilles Heel!
RF for quick response, SLR see beautifully.
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Old 11-23-2017   #20
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If I had to choose, it's Nikon FM2 with Nikkor AI lenses,
or Leicaflex SL/SL2 if Leica R lenses are to be used.
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Old 11-23-2017   #21
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I am definitely partial to the chrome R6 Gorgeous camera.
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Old 11-23-2017   #22
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Just to add to your temptation! A favorite combo of mine...

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M6, 35mm Pre Asph Lux, 50 Elmar M

IIIasync, 5cm Summar, 5cm Sonnar, 3.5cm Elmar, 13.5cm Sonnar

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Old 11-23-2017   #23
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I find the mini soft release I'm using helps with my R6.2
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M6, 35mm Pre Asph Lux, 50 Elmar M

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Old 11-23-2017   #24
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Or you could just carry a spare battery for the Eos 3, sounds like the R4 was faulty if you could feel shutter lag that much. If you want the the aperture and focus to move the same way then go Canon maybe even FD something like a new F1. Having used a lot of slrs I've never had any problems with shutter lag.
Good luck.
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Old 11-23-2017   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
Or you could just carry a spare battery for the Eos 3, sounds like the R4 was faulty if you could feel shutter lag that much. If you want the the aperture and focus to move the same way then go Canon maybe even FD something like a new F1. Having used a lot of slrs I've never had any problems with shutter lag.
Good luck.
I believe a lot of regular 35mm SLR users, after a while, compensate, either consciously or unconsciously for the delay and brief finder blackout. After getting and using my M4-2 I came to realize that I really preferred SLR viewing and focusing. We each choose the configuration that works best for us. My 35mm platform is OM, again just a personal preference because I value small size and low weight.
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Old 11-23-2017   #26
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
If you want an R series mechanical Leica then it is only the R6(2). The rest have electronic shutters. Maybe the older SL series would be another option.
Get the SL /SL2. There is a reason they usually sell for more than the R6
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Old 11-23-2017   #27
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Though I converted 50R Cron, 90R Elmarit and 35r very late model Elmarit with Leitax converters, I did put the original Leica mounts back on them and bought a nice Leicaflex SL
Using these lenses on NIKON film bodies and also D700 was terrific, results wise but using them was too cumbersome regarding stopping them down constantly - wound up using them wide open.b
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Old 11-23-2017   #28
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I carry my LX with my M6.

Great Pentax glass to complement great Leica glass. Nice, compact lenses for both systems.

Both cameras have awesome viewfinders.

Very little shutter lag on the LX.

Both cameras are complementary. 135mm and tighter for Pentax, 90mm and wider for the Leica.

All my Nikons are much bigger then the Leica and work backwards. They are great cameras in their own right but don't play well with others. Nikons provide a VERY different shooting experience to the Leica. But the F6 does have a very quiet and very fast shutter.

If you don't like the Pentax then pick the Olympus. At least the cameras are complementary.
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Old 11-23-2017   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZivcoPhoto View Post
Using these lenses on NIKON film bodies and also D700 was terrific, results wise but using them was too cumbersome regarding stopping them down constantly - wound up using them wide open.b
My experience exactly.
You can get a decent SL for the cost of a set of Leitax conversions, and it's just better to use.
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Old 11-23-2017   #30
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
I carry my LX with my M6.

Great Pentax glass to complement great Leica glass. Nice, compact lenses for both systems.

Both cameras have awesome viewfinders.

Very little shutter lag on the LX.

Both cameras are complementary. 135mm and tighter for Pentax, 90mm and wider for the Leica.

All my Nikons are much bigger then the Leica and work backwards. They are great cameras in their own right but don't play well with others. Nikons provide a VERY different shooting experience to the Leica. But the F6 does have a very quiet and very fast shutter.

If you don't like the Pentax then pick the Olympus. At least the cameras are complementary.
The problem with getting into Olympus slrs is you may never go back to Leica as they are practically the same size as a rf, have amazing viewfinders and are great value.
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Old 11-23-2017   #31
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I started shooting with a Pentax Super/Program A with the 50mm 1.4 in 1986. Sold it to fund my M6ttl but always had a sweet spot. Stil have some Pentax Glass and a ME Super. Don't like the pushbuttons but have been thinking about the LX...

Since i shoot D700 and M9 for weddings i have some Nikon glass so thats why a Nikon SLR is maybe more logic but even that basic Pentax 50mm 1.7 (which i still have) is a nice lens. The LX is an option that I maybe skipped too quickly.

So would that Pentax glass keep up or match with the 50mm summicron v3 and the 35mm summicron v4?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
I carry my LX with my M6.

Great Pentax glass to complement great Leica glass. Nice, compact lenses for both systems.

Both cameras have awesome viewfinders.

Very little shutter lag on the LX.

Both cameras are complementary. 135mm and tighter for Pentax, 90mm and wider for the Leica.

All my Nikons are much bigger then the Leica and work backwards. They are great cameras in their own right but don't play well with others. Nikons provide a VERY different shooting experience to the Leica. But the F6 does have a very quiet and very fast shutter.

If you don't like the Pentax then pick the Olympus. At least the cameras are complementary.
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Old 11-23-2017   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
The problem with getting into Olympus slrs is you may never go back to Leica as they are practically the same size as a rf, have amazing viewfinders and are great value.
I always liked the Olympus system but have no glass Olympus whatsoever so that would be another system. The viewfinder however is huge and i like the feeling of the glass. Mechanical would mean Olympus OM1 right?

Overall i lIked the idea that the FM3a was the newest Mechanical slr i could get and at least 10 to 20 years younger than most of the alternatives we are talking about.
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Old 11-23-2017   #33
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if you’re looking for a fancy slr kit, consider a nikon with zeiss zf and voigtlander glass.
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Old 11-23-2017   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roel View Post
I am looking for mechanical SLR to use next to my Leica M film bodies.
The Nikon F2 is the manual/mechanical SLR I prefer to use next to my manual/mechanical Leica M6.


Leica M6 & Nikon F2 by Narsuitus, on Flickr
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Old 11-23-2017   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giganova View Post
The R glass isn't really much better than Nikon glass. If I were you, I'd go with FM2 and AI-S lenses. Killer combo!
I agree Leica R glass has become silly expensive. My other suggestion if you want something really sturdy, get a F2AS, or if you can live with an electronic shutter, the F3HP. If it were my cash, I'd go with the F3 and pristine AiS glass.
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Old 11-23-2017   #36
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Do not get the FM3a. It will spoil you.

I have 3 now.
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Old 11-23-2017   #37
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fm3a is, in my mind, the best and most user friendly manual focus camera they nade,
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Old 11-23-2017   #38
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(a) choose the glass (b) pick the appropriate native body for that glass

Leitax conversions are useful for digital but I wouldn't bother for film. Heck, many of the bodies cost much less than a Leitax bayonet.

There are sooooo many insanely good 135 manual focus SLRs.
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Old 11-23-2017   #39
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fm3a is, in my mind, the best and most user friendly manual focus camera they nade,
I do like mine. Used in manual mode, the shutter is mechanical and not battery dependent. Plus, as long as the battery is ok you can use it in aperture priority with no worries! So I think you should get another FM3a, which is also my choice for an SLR to use alongside my M6. (For a non-battery dependent Leica to use alongside an M6, my choice is an M2 and an M4-P.)
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Old 11-23-2017   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
....All my Nikons are much bigger then the Leica and work backwards. They are great cameras in their own right but don't play well with others. Nikons provide a VERY different shooting experience to the Leica. But the F6 does have a very quiet and very fast shutter......
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......Since i shoot D700 and M9 for weddings i have some Nikon glass so thats why a Nikon SLR is maybe more logic....
+1 on the different direction issue, I solved it differently, I switched to Nikon RFs.

As it sounds like you have AF Nikkors this might not be that big a problem for you. But then you still have the apertures running the wrong way. I can't speak to shutter delay on any AF ready Nikon SLRs, never used one other than my wife's 2020 (don't go there).

B2 (;->
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