Time: This is why Film Photography is making a Comeback
Old 01-26-2017   #1
Skiff
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Time: This is why Film Photography is making a Comeback

FYI:

http://time.com/4649188/film-photogr.../?xid=homepage
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Old 01-26-2017   #2
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Thanks.

I noticed the sidebar article listed both the K1000 and the M6 as suggested film cameras.
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Old 01-27-2017   #3
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Thanks.

I noticed the sidebar article listed both the K1000 and the M6 as suggested film cameras.
You are welcome.

Just one important additional information:
The numbers mentioned by the Fujifilm US rep. are only that of the US market, not the global market.

The global market had its peak in 1999/2000 with 3 billion rolls.
And the current global market is much much bigger than 19 million rolls.
The global BW film market alone has about that size (source: Ilford rep. in an interview last year). The instant film market is probably even bigger now, more than 19 million instant film packs.
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Old 01-27-2017   #4
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Looks like 'Time' is making a complete series about film photography.
There is another article on used film cameras, and this article about professionals using film:

http://time.com/4646116/film-photography-inspiration/

Let's have a look whether additional articles will be published.
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Old 01-27-2017   #5
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It's a modest but important change for the better. The TIME articles will make for a welcome - and much needed - buzz on film.
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Old 01-27-2017   #6
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Yer 'tiz
http://time.com/4649032/film-photogr.../?iid=sr-link1
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Old 01-27-2017   #7
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Not too much nutrients in such articles. Film photography doesn't need hype anymore. If film photography is coming back, give us more affordable consumer level films please.

Thanks for sharing though.
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Old 01-27-2017   #8
Michael Markey
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Thanks for posting.
I use both film and digital myself but its notable that the controlling body for the many camera clubs in the UK have stopped taking film entries for their competitions a few years ago.

I don`t myself enter photographic competitions but it`ll be interesting to see if they reverse this policy at some time in the future.
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Old 01-27-2017   #9
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Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
Thanks for posting.
I use both film and digital myself but its notable that the controlling body for the many camera clubs in the UK have stopped taking film entries for their competitions a few years ago.

I don`t myself enter photographic competitions but it`ll be interesting to see if they reverse this policy at some time in the future.
I wonder what would be the rationale behind that. Or is it just that they wouldn't accept negative/transparency/print ? Would they look at the exif data if one entered a scan of the film ?

Not that I ever enter such competitions either. Just raising the questions, not necessarily expecting answers.
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Old 01-27-2017   #10
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Not sure myself to be honest.
I think it was simply the lack of film entries .
Most of the interest in the camera clubs is in post processing ... composite images ect.

Slide film seemed to hold on for a while but entries were closed for that too.
I copied the link to my camera club page but it`ll probably cause complete bewilderment as most are unaware that they even produce film of any type anymore


I should add the the average age is well over 60 and a fair few were very good darkroom printers in their time.
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Old 01-27-2017   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
Thanks for posting.
I use both film and digital myself but its notable that the controlling body for the many camera clubs in the UK have stopped taking film entries for their competitions a few years ago.

I don`t myself enter photographic competitions but it`ll be interesting to see if they reverse this policy at some time in the future.
This is nothing unusual.
Canadian clubs instituted the same policy years ago as well.
I belong to a club here in Toronto (Toronto Digital Photography Club) and am the only film-only shooter out of about 125 members.
Any images I enter in Clinics or Competitions must be scanned.
Slide entries were discontinued about ten years ago.
Robert
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Old 01-27-2017   #12
Ko.Fe.
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Originally Posted by nukecoke View Post
Not too much nutrients in such articles. Film photography doesn't need hype anymore. If film photography is coming back, give us more affordable consumer level films please.

Thanks for sharing though.
Exactly! Most likely this "comeback" will cost 15$ per roll, 20$ to process and four week to wait. If so, I would not call it as "comeback".

My Kodak lab in local Walmart is gone and Kodak Gold is also gone from local Walmart shelves!
Come back, come back, come back my Kodak to me!
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Old 01-27-2017   #13
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It's never a bad thing to have more options in photography.
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Old 01-27-2017   #14
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I'm not sure numbers at less than 1% of the peak really qualifies as a comeback. I guess it makes for a great story, like the comeback of LPs and cassettes. I do hope that film continues to be around for a long time, and that there's enough volume to keep the factories moving so we can retain the products that are available today, if not add more.

I'm skeptical that film photography will ever again be more than a niche. It's easy to be romantic about film, but once a suitable replacement was available, people jumped ship. Now that being the only game in town is no longer a selling point, film has to compete on its merits vs. digital. For most people, a cell phone camera is good enough, produces better pictures than they ever got with a consumer-grade camera, and the additional cost is nil. And that group of people, the average person, is who made the film market so large to begin with. Those people aren't going back to film.
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Old 01-27-2017   #15
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Exactly! Most likely this "comeback" will cost 15$ per roll, 20$ to process and four week to wait. If so, I would not call it as "comeback".
Some of my friends in Canada are shooting film. None of them is paying 15$ per roll, or 20$ for processing.
Just one example of an excellent Canadian lab:
http://www2.borealislab.qc.ca/borealis/
http://www2.borealislab.qc.ca/borealis/price-list

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-27-2017   #16
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I'm skeptical that film photography will ever again be more than a niche.
In relation to digital imaging film will be a niche in the future. But a growing one.
And that film remains a niche in relative terms is not a problem at all, it is even the opposite. Niche, enthusiast markets are often more sound and sustainable in the long run.

Currently about 3 billion people worldwide are taking pictures. And the number is growing.
If only 0,1 % of that would be shooting film in the future, it would be millions of film shooters worldwide. Enough to keep film alive and kicking on a very good level.

Cheers, Jan

Last edited by HHPhoto : 01-27-2017 at 06:07. Reason: typo
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Old 01-27-2017   #17
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Some of my friends in Canada are shooting film. None of them is paying 15$ per roll, or 20$ for processing.
Just one example of an excellent Canadian lab:
http://www2.borealislab.qc.ca/borealis/
http://www2.borealislab.qc.ca/borealis/price-list

Cheers, Jan
Most likely I overshoot all of your friends with 2K frames taken per year on film.
My comment has nothing to do with locals, I'm buying my chemical supplies from QC company http://www.argentix.ca/C41E6chems.php?=SID&mqry=sp002
All I was saying, this "comeback" most likely will cost 15$ per roll and Kodak will charge 20$ for processing.

Santé, Ko.
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Old 01-27-2017   #18
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Exactly! Most likely this "comeback" will cost 15$ per roll, 20$ to process and four week to wait. If so, I would not call it as "comeback".

My Kodak lab in local Walmart is gone and Kodak Gold is also gone from local Walmart shelves!
Come back, come back, come back my Kodak to me!
That sucks! If I get off my butt I costs me 4 EUR per roll and 2 EUR to process and scan. Slides! Less for C-41 and BW.
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Old 01-27-2017   #19
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That's a great article to jog the passions of those who missing film out in the Hurried General Public.
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Old 01-27-2017   #20
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Time, Inc has not been relevant for 15-20 years. This article and their others on film are obviously written by recent Journalism School Grads who don't know 2 twits about film photography. Give me some meat!
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Old 01-27-2017   #21
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Niche, enthusiast markets are often more sound and sustainable in the long run.
True and it generally means these products are get alive by love and not pure profit.
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Old 01-27-2017   #22
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It's never a bad thing to have more options in photography.
Yes, that is really important. We don't want to be cubby-holed into just one look.
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Old 01-27-2017   #23
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:P I don't agree too much on the whole "forces you to think" adage, since that seems to have been regurgitated since the dawn of digital.

In a nutshell, I feel like it's still around or making a 'comeback' for two reasons

1) Film being a medium of art allows it to survive. Companies like Ilford have stated that as long as film is considered a medium of art, they will continue to produce film/paper.
2) Nostalgia. Considering that the only generation I know of that has been completely digital has been the millennial and younger, there's still quite a few of us that least remember shooting film.

PS: My professor doesn't miss film one bit, and thinks I need therapy for still wanting to do it, claiming I do such good work with digital, why bother with film.
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Old 01-27-2017   #24
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Exactly! Most likely this "comeback" will cost 15$ per roll, 20$ to process and four week to wait. If so, I would not call it as "comeback".

My Kodak lab in local Walmart is gone and Kodak Gold is also gone from local Walmart shelves!
Come back, come back, come back my Kodak to me!
Here in Grand Rapids, Michigan, all but one of the stores have gotten rid of their in house processors.

The one over on Alpine still has a Noristu processor, but it doesn't cost $15, but rather only $4 and you can get the negatives back within 2 hours.

Though last year that would have been $1.75, so I'm reluctant to shoot color now because of that as $4 is steep for me to just fire off on some expired color rolls I have.

Now E6 or B&W, yea most definitely would have to send that out.

Though for B&W we have three rooms like this :



The one above mainly for 35mm printing, the other one having the enlargers for 4x5, as well as the film development materials for 35/120/220/4x5, and the third room is mostly a bunch of dark closest and storage cabinets.
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Old 01-27-2017   #25
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The one above mainly for 35mm printing, the other one having the enlargers for 4x5, as well as the film development materials for 35/120/220/4x5, and the third room is mostly a bunch of dark closest and storage cabinets.
Perfect for doing color as well.
Just add a Jobo CPA / CPP or CPE film/paper processor and you can perfectly develop E6 and C41 film (and BW reversal film) and RA-4 paper for about "next to nothing" costs.
If all enlargers are only BW, just add one color enlarger, too. Used ones in excellent condition are very cheap.
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Old 01-27-2017   #26
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Perfect for doing color as well.
Just add a Jobo CPA / CPP or CPE film/paper processor and you can perfectly develop E6 and C41 film (and BW reversal film) and RA-4 paper for about "next to nothing" costs.
If all enlargers are only BW, just add one color enlarger, too. Used ones in excellent condition are very cheap.
The enlargers over in the 4x5 room (i.e.: the only ones large enough to hold a 4x5 tray) all have color heads, mostly besler with independent control for 3 or 4 color knobs.

The ones in the 35mm room are all fitted with 35mm neg trays (but looks like it can go up to 6x7/6x6), with your usual condenser head and a contrast filter tray.

This is of course for the school (GRCC), so I doubt they would have very little interest in adding color chemistry/processors or dealing with color paper/film.

We do have a new safelight on order since the one hanging from the ceiling is dim as hell, and we just have the big red bulb on the wall as a work-around until the new unit comes in.

We're just using Sprint chemistry for the film and paper development, though there are a crapload of expired d76, ilfosol, hc-110, etc sitting around that they plan on chucking, though I had them keep all the un-cracked bottles of HC-110 since they haven't crystalized yet and I like using HC-110 for one-shot development which is how I did the P3200 roll (expired 2004) yesterday, since with the sprint chemistry the dev time at 68F would have been 17.5 minutes instead of 10.5 in HC-110 Dil. B.

Edit:

The 4x5 Side





Ironically this semester I'm in both PO126 (Film processing, combined with the 4x5 View camera class) and in PO230 Advanced Digital Image Processing.
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Old 01-27-2017   #27
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This is of course for the school (GRCC), so I doubt they would have very little interest in adding color chemistry/processors or dealing with color paper/film.
Color (and BW) reversal films are the best photographic learning tools: Because of
- the "what you see it was you get" principle; it is the most direct and straight form of photography
- correct exposure is needed for optimal results: you get a direct feedback of your exposure skills
- it is fast and cheap: only developing of the films is needed, then you already have a perfect finished picture which can be looked at and can be analysed concerning composition, exposure, sharpness etc. = direct feedback for the students.
No (time and cost consuming) prints or scans are needed.

In my photographic education reversal film played a major role. Learned so much by using it! I am very thankful for that.
I know of several universities here which also use color reversal film in their education of photography students parallel to BW.
Teaching both is the best strategy in my opinion.

Last edited by Skiff : 01-27-2017 at 08:27. Reason: typo
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Old 01-27-2017   #28
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Color (and BW) reversal films are the best photographic learning tools: Because of
- the "what you see it was you get" principle; it is the most direct and straight form of photography
- correct exposure is needed for optimal results: you get a direct feedback of your exposure skills
- it is fast and cheap: only developing of the films is needed, then you already have a perfect finished picture which can be looked at and can be analysed concerning composition, exposure, sharpness etc. = direct feedback for the students.
No (time and cost consuming) prints or scans are needed.

In my photographic education reversal film played a major role. Learned so much by using it! I am very thankful for that.
I know of several universities here which also use color reversal film in their education of photography students parallel to BW.
Teaching both is the best strategy in my opinion.
Except in this case, the school only provides the chemistry (and the larger equipment), the students are responsible for procuring the film and paper, and camera/etc (though the 4x5 people just check out the calumet view cameras and accessories from the department).

Many of my classmates were already having a hard enough time procuring a 35mm camera, that I've loaned out a couple of mine such as the Argus C3, and the Kodak Pony 135 (and normally an SLR would be required, but due to the difficulty since last year, they've been allowing anything that had full manual control, hence my decision to go with a rangefinder).

I'm not sure what KCAD (Kendall College of Art and Design) across the street is using, but I know their Photo 101 class is basically 35mm B&W photography, where as our Photo 101 is strictly digital without printing (printing doesn't happen until P102/106 onward, and film is only in PO126, view camera processing, and alternative processing).

The usual recommendation for paper/film has been Ilford HP5+/FP4+ or Kodak TriX/Tmax 100/400, and paper just being Ilford multigrade RC in glossy (though I pointed out if anyone is really scraping by, the Arista EDU paper and film is a little cheaper and works well enough for the purpose).

I'm of course getting away with using my old batches of Kodak and Ilford RC paper that I've used for years... but I recently had to buy some fresh Ilford film, because to my dismay the 100 feet bulk roll of Tri-X I had was already exposed (as in had pictures on the entire roll, probably from a press/bulk camera).


Edit

I might be off the rest of the day as this just happened behind me as I'm attending the digital lab right now.







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Old 01-27-2017   #29
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What happened?
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Old 01-27-2017   #30
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What happened?
Apparently someone had a running start to a suicide. (shoe print on the ledge)
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Old 01-27-2017   #31
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In relation to digital imaging film will be a niche in the future. But a growing one.
And that film remains a niche in relative terms is not a problem at all, it is even the opposite. Niche, enthusiast markets are often more sound and sustainable in the long run.

Currently about 3 billion people worldwide are taking pictures. And the number is growing.
If only 0,1 % of that would be shooting film in the future, it would be millions of film shooters worldwide. Enough to keep film alive and kicking on a very good level.

Cheers, Jan
I agree with you. My comments about film photography continuing to be a niche were directed against the assertion that any kind of comeback was taking place.
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Old 01-27-2017   #32
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Nothing wrong with niche. That's where I reside in most things.
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Old 01-27-2017   #33
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Apparently someone had a running start to a suicide. (shoe print on the ledge)
Wow, quite a leap.
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Old 01-27-2017   #34
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Wow, quite a leap.
Apparently he survived.

Police investigating after fall from GRCC parking ramp

Quote:
The person was alive when they were transported to a nearby hospital following what the college and authorities said was likely a suicide attempt.

The injured person was described by GRCC officials as a male who was not a current student or employee of the college.
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Old 01-27-2017   #35
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Time, Inc has not been relevant for 15-20 years. This article and their others on film are obviously written by recent Journalism School Grads who don't know 2 twits about film photography. Give me some meat!
I'm sure they know their audience.

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Not too much nutrients in such articles. Film photography doesn't need hype anymore. If film photography is coming back, give us more affordable consumer level films please.

Thanks for sharing though.
We have affordable film, problem is people suspect it when it's not expensive enough. Get some Foma or Kentmere. You can shoot a load of it for little money. I've been shooting Agfa Precisa since Ektachrome was axed, so you can even get affordable slide film if you look for it.
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Old 01-27-2017   #36
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I'm sure they know their audience.



We have affordable film, problem is people suspect it when it's not expensive enough. Get some Foma or Kentmere. You can shoot a load of it for little money. I've been shooting Agfa Precisa since Ektachrome was axed, so you can even get affordable slide film if you look for it.
I still need to get around to shooting the couple rolls of Foma Retropan 320 I have, I just been reluctant to load it up until I know how well it works in Sprint developer (as opposed to doing one shot with hc-110).

There's the Arista EDU brand that's pretty inexpensive, but not sure how it would be compared to foam/kentmere.
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Old 01-27-2017   #37
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:P
In a nutshell, I feel like it's still around or making a 'comeback' for two reasons

1) Film being a medium of art allows it to survive. Companies like Ilford have stated that as long as film is considered a medium of art, they will continue to produce film/paper.
2) Nostalgia. Considering that the only generation I know of that has been completely digital has been the millennial and younger, there's still quite a few of us that least remember shooting film.

.
There is one more reason some folks like film.
Because that is what the cameras they like take.
I cannot open the back of my OM-1 and place a digital sensor where the film goes. I like my OM-1. It has;
A big bright 1-10 screen (plain matte with grid lines).
A shutter speed dial that I use to select shutter speed.
A aperture ring that I use to select the aperture.
A focusing ring that I use to focus on the big bright screen.
If it's battery dies it doesn't just sit there being a useless lump, I go right on taking pictures.
These are great features I cannot get or afford on a digital camera.
It also feels great in the hands, like a precision machine.
I've never felt that in any digital SLR I've ever picked up.
To be fair, I have not picked up either a Fuji X-1 or a Leica digital M.
Ah, but that goes to the "..or afford.." part of a previous sentence.

Full disclosure, I have a DSLR, a prehistoric Olympus E-410, purchased new but discontinued in 2009. I was stupid and left the camera on the shelf over this summer and fall and the OLY battery swelled up. I was able to finally extract the battery but it was finished. My cheap off brand battery is still working........for now. The little plastic tab catches that close the card door finally broke but I can hold it closed with masking tape. I have noticed just a few days ago the display screen is starting to act up, like a loose connection or something. When it fully dies I'll pull the lens off (not sure why, it's worth almost nothing) and toss the body in the trash. Hey, that is almost 8 years, not bad for a consumer DSLR. My two OM-1 bodies are from 1974 and 1989, both used, both serviced once, both working (but the 74 has a dead meter).
Ah well.

Disclaimer. This is the personal preference on one person.
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Old 01-31-2017   #38
HHPhoto
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HHPhoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,694
Hi,

it looks like film is not only starting to make a comeback in the major film markets like Europe, Japan, China, SE Asia and North America, but also in some small international niche markets like the United Arab Emirates:

http://www.thenational.ae/arts-life/...he-digital-age

Cheers, Jan
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