21 f/4 Super Angulon M mount
Old 10-12-2016   #1
bucs
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21 f/4 Super Angulon M mount

I have read that the 21 4.0 SA in M mount can be used in LTM bodies by removing the bayonet mount which is screwed onto the body.

Can anyone confirm this? TIA!

Nathan
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Old 10-12-2016   #2
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Nathan,

I have one of these lenses. There is a tiny set screw that you will have to unscrew. Be prepared to catch it After removing the bayonet mount, you have a regular LTM mount.

I don't believe that all 21mm f/4 M mount lenses will allow you to do this. I'll leave this question to the Leica experts!

This lens works well for me on film.

Mark
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Old 10-12-2016   #3
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According to the Leica Camera Forum wiki, all the f/4s have this mount. But, there are always exceptions!
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...%3D_2.1_cm_1:4
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Old 10-12-2016   #4
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Thanks for the link!

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
According to the Leica Camera Forum wiki, all the f/4s have this mount. But, there are always exceptions!
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...%3D_2.1_cm_1:4
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Old 10-12-2016   #5
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Is it this screw on the side of the mount?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8v7zzxwsg...10564.JPG?dl=0

Nathan

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenhao View Post
Nathan,

I have one of these lenses. There is a tiny set screw that you will have to unscrew. Be prepared to catch it After removing the bayonet mount, you have a regular LTM mount.

I don't believe that all 21mm f/4 M mount lenses will allow you to do this. I'll leave this question to the Leica experts!

This lens works well for me on film.

Mark
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Old 10-13-2016   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radi(c)al_cam View Post
Well … This ^ list is more confusing than helpful, there are too many lenses admixed that aren't the original SUPER-ANGULON 1:4/21mm aka «SUOON».

(Let alone the designation «Super-Angulon f= 2.1 cm 1:4» is an invention of that forum over there [obviously, one can call that Bravo Sierra, I'd say].)

And: Has anyone ever seen a SUOON-M made after say 1963 having the aforementioned removable M-adapter? — I guess it's an urban legend.

According to Dr. Bawendi, only about 1.400 SUOON were made.
That list is a bit long, as the f/4 model was not made until 1980. The 3.4 model takes over from 1964 (or 63 or 67?) through to 1980 (or 81). So one must presume that the f/4 list contains R lenses, or f/3.4's in M (or R) mount. Some cross referencing is required to really drill down into the list. But, the page clearly states;

Quote:
Lens mount - Leica Screw-thread and unique M-bayonet addaptor removable for screw-mount use
Whereas the f/3.4 page lists the mount type as;

Quote:
Lens mount - Leica Screw-thread & M-bayonet
Which clearly doesn't state that the convertible mount exists in the f/3.4 version. (I've never seen a f/3.4 is thread mount though...)

In the end, it turns out that there are exceptions to every rule, and you only know when you see it.
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Old 10-13-2016   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radi(c)al_cam View Post
Thank you, Michael!

Well, not only the «2.1 cm» nonsense, and this until the 1980s, additionally they're talking about an «addaptor», whatever that might be
I think we may have a lost-in-translation situation from German, I assume through several languages, before finally into English of some sort.

And being European, it surely should be 2,1cm rather than 2.1cm! Such a travesty!
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Old 10-13-2016   #8
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Now that I look at the revisions (a self moderating wiki is bound to be accurate with one user ) I can start to dig...

I appears that sometime on the 6th of March 2010, the production timeline changed from;
Quote:
''Production era''' - 1958-1963, 1462 screw and 5292 M-bayonet lenses
to;
Quote:
'''Production era''' - 1958-1981, 1462 screw and 5292 M-bayonet < 27,000 lenses
and we added an additional 20000 lenses that we cannot account for? (Total R mount SA, both f/4 and f/3.4 is less than 10000, so still 10000 unaccounted for) Seems fishy?

Now, I notice something else. The wiki lists 1462 screw mount and 5292 M mount, but it also lists that all the f/4's were a convertible mount...
Some more digging and the total production of the f/3.4 version is listed as < 5970 lenses.
So... now can we finally see that in the total 21mm (or 2.1cm) Super Angolan production (excluding R mount) was:
~ 1462 convertible screw mount f/4s
~ 5292 (< 5970) M mount f/3.4s

Now, what was the question?
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Old 10-13-2016   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucs View Post
Is it this screw on the side of the mount?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8v7zzxwsg...10564.JPG?dl=0

Nathan
That screw is stopping the M mount unscrewing off the screw mount. I would be careful, its likely been sleeping there for 60 or so years . Once remover, the M mount "should" just unscrew as if you were unscrewing an LTM-M adapter. Take care, the thickness will not be much and it will probably be stiff.
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Old 10-13-2016   #10
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Riddle of the l-camera-forum wiki page solved!

What do we win?
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Old 10-13-2016   #11
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Pic

Here ya go

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Old 10-13-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radi(c)al_cam View Post
Hm, a ping-pong Leica perhaps

You can have mine!
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Old 10-13-2016   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucs View Post
Here ya go

And when you take out the screw what happens?
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