Hasselblad X3 and X5 discontinued
Old 06-12-2019   #1
Harry Lime
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Hasselblad X3 and X5 discontinued

The last two high end film scanners in production have a just been discontinued due to the unavailability of certain parts.

That's a pretty big blow to institutions and professionals who relied on those machines to archive vast catalogs of negatives etc.

I guess that makes the Plustek 120 the new top dog.

Maybe it's time for Kodak to get a clue and step up to the plate with an entry, mid and high end scanner.

If you have the cash I guess someone could rig up a neg scanner with the new Fujifilm GFX100 or another medium format back for a super high quality alternative.

But regardless this is unfortunate news.
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Old 06-12-2019   #2
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It's simply time for either Nikon or Adobe to make DSLR scan conversion software or plug ins. I find scans from my D850 to be far better than even drum scans.

Dedicated film scanners are nice but with some tweaks, DSLR scanning is a much more versatile and practical platform in 2019.
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Old 06-12-2019   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
The last two high end film scanners in production have a just been discontinued due to the unavailability of certain parts.
No, they are not the last two high end film scanners in production.
ICG is producing new real (not virtual like Hasselblad) drum scanners. They also deliver better quality compared to the Hasselblads (tested that myself).

https://www.icg.ltd.uk/

And on a lower, but still quite high quality level: Noritsu is also producing new professional scanners like the HS-1800.
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Old 06-12-2019   #4
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I had no idea that anyone was still making drum scanners. That's good news.


Although the X3/X5 have an edge with volume scanning given that you can get automatic feeders for slides etc.
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Old 06-12-2019   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
It's simply time for either Nikon or Adobe to make DSLR scan conversion software or plug ins. I find scans from my D850 to be far better than even drum scans.

Dedicated film scanners are nice but with some tweaks, DSLR scanning is a much more versatile and practical platform in 2019.
I'm not so sure about that. I have an X5 and short of a well executed drum scan I have never seen better IQ from a scanner. I've seen DSLR scans and as good as they are I have yet to see one that's as good as the above. The bayer pattern interpolation alone, should not allow even a 850 to reach the same quality as the high resolution line CCD in the X5 (there aren't an equal amount of R,G,B receptors in a DSLR vs a line CCD).
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Old 06-12-2019   #6
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I have used the d850 and now use the z7 for scanning and while I am very happy with the results drum scanning is a whole other level.
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Old 06-12-2019   #7
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
And on a lower, but still quite high quality level: Noritsu is also producing new professional scanners like the HS-1800.
Apparently you can't get a new HS-1800 or LS-600 from Noritsu anymore. The word in Noritsu Scanner Users FB group is that they discontinued all their scanners.
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Old 06-12-2019   #8
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Apparently you can't get a new HS-1800 or LS-600 from Noritsu anymore. The word in Noritsu Scanner Users FB group is that they discontinued all their scanners.
Well, FB groups are not always reliable sources........
You remember all those "experts" in such groups who have claimed even until last week that Fujifilm "has stopped film production" .
Again and again people just repeat the rumors or conspiracy theories they have heard. But they don't do their own research.

Due to those who distribute and service it, they are not discontinued. But shipping time is currently very long.

https://www.noritsu.eu/hardware/nori...m-scanner.html
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Old 06-13-2019   #9
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Hiend scanners are now in cine industry. Best quality, lowest price per frame.
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Old 06-13-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
No, they are not the last two high end film scanners in production.
ICG is producing new real (not virtual like Hasselblad) drum scanners. They also deliver better quality compared to the Hasselblads (tested that myself).

https://www.icg.ltd.uk/

And on a lower, but still quite high quality level: Noritsu is also producing new professional scanners like the HS-1800.
Skiff to the rescue!
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Old 06-13-2019   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
I'm not so sure about that. I have an X5 and short of a well executed drum scan I have never seen better IQ from a scanner. I've seen DSLR scans and as good as they are I have yet to see one that's as good as the above. The bayer pattern interpolation alone, should not allow even a 850 to reach the same quality as the high resolution line CCD in the X5 (there aren't an equal amount of R,G,B receptors in a DSLR vs a line CCD).
I would agree. Having the Bayer matrix stand between me and my film is a no go.
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Old 06-13-2019   #12
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If you want analog like image then drum type scanner with single pixel is a way to go. But then you have register error - jagged lines.
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Old 06-13-2019   #13
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Well, FB groups are not always reliable sources........
That's why I named my source. All I know is that more people (people owning small dev/scan labs) reported there that Noritsu US told them they shipped their last scanner.

Do what you want with that information.
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Old 06-13-2019   #14
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
No, they are not the last two high end film scanners in production.
ICG is producing new real (not virtual like Hasselblad) drum scanners. They also deliver better quality compared to the Hasselblads (tested that myself)
They might do but a drum scanner doesn't help institutions like museums and those with libraries of material too extensive for drum scanning to be a practical proposition. The Imacon/Hasselblad scanners occupied an important niche and once support becomes difficult these institutions will transition to high end digital camera solutions like those provided by DT Cultural Heritage. These work in conjunction with Phase One cameras and are a significant step up in efficiency, quality and price (the 'scanning' rigs alone are circa 40,000 and that's without the camera).
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Old 06-14-2019   #15
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They might do but a drum scanner doesn't help institutions like museums and those with libraries of material too extensive for drum scanning to be a practical proposition.
I have to disagree here. Drum scanners have been state of the art in the industry for decades, and even in the printing industry when high quality was needed. As you can put lots of negative / slides on the drum and scan them at the same time (no other scanner can do that) scanning is even quite efficient.

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Originally Posted by ian_watts View Post
These work in conjunction with Phase One cameras and are a significant step up in efficiency, quality and price (the 'scanning' rigs alone are circa 40,000 and that's without the camera).
I know people from the industry who have tested that in comparison to drum scans and the drum scans delivered much better results. The performance of PMT technology remains unsurpassed.
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Old 06-14-2019   #16
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Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
I guess that makes the Plustek 120 the new top dog.

The Plustek OpticFilm 120 is out of production.


The announced Plustek OpticFilm 120 Pro so far is vaporware.
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Old 06-14-2019   #17
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It seems best bet is to scan with high end digital cameras..

Canon Canada has basically ended film scanners.
There is a "SURCHARGE" almost equal to cost of scanner!
Transport from Canon USA., to Canada.
Best bet check price with B+H.
Uh Oh! no more at B+H...

Last edited by leicapixie : 06-14-2019 at 04:03. Reason: left out a few lines..
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Old 06-14-2019   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
The last two high end film scanners in production have a just been discontinued due to the unavailability of certain parts.

That's a pretty big blow to institutions and professionals who relied on those machines to archive vast catalogs of negatives etc.

I guess that makes the Plustek 120 the new top dog.

Maybe it's time for Kodak to get a clue and step up to the plate with an entry, mid and high end scanner.

If you have the cash I guess someone could rig up a neg scanner with the new Fujifilm GFX100 or another medium format back for a super high quality alternative.

But regardless this is unfortunate news.
Hmmm... must have missed the Hasselblad announcement, or was that actually an official announcement?

If not, what sources confirm the discontinuation?
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Old 06-14-2019   #19
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Google searches show no sign of any release date for the OpticFilm 120 Pro. Further, Plustek's web site shows no sign whatsoever that there has been an official announcement for this new scanner. No sign of it at all. Do they want potential customers to buy a competitive scanner or wait?

Vaporware.
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Old 06-14-2019   #20
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Wouldn't it be ironic if a lack of scanners is what put the last nail in the film coffin.
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Old 06-14-2019   #21
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Do they want potential customers to buy a competitive scanner or wait?
They simply do want a very good product that works for the customer. And development of such a product takes its time.
Better to wait a little bit having a flawless product than being too early on the market with a product full of bugs.
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Old 06-14-2019   #22
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Wouldn't it be ironic if a lack of scanners is what put the last nail in the film coffin.
No, because there simply is no real lack of scanners in the market currently.
FUD in forums and the market reality are two completely different things.
We see increasing demand for film, and the film manufacturers react with new films.
If the demand for scanners would / will increase in the coming years, we will see new scanners (by the way, we have also seen new scanners in the last years, e.g. by Pacific Image / Reflekta; the Reflekta RPS 10 M surpassed the Coolscan V in resolution).

And: Film photography has become a mainstream medium without any scanners. Scanners are an additional option.
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Old 06-14-2019   #23
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They simply do want a very good product that works for the customer. And development of such a product takes its time.
Better to wait a little bit having a flawless product than being too early on the market with a product full of bugs.
Why discontinue the current scanner while making up a new one? That's ridiculous. I design products for a living; have been doing so for 26 years. NEVER has an existing product been discontinued, leaving customers wanting while a new product is under development.

It makes no sense.
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Old 06-14-2019   #24
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Wouldn't it be ironic if a lack of scanners is what put the last nail in the film coffin.

There are plenty of 35mm film scanners. And flatbed scanners don't do too badly for medium format film.
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Old 06-14-2019   #25
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Why discontinue the current scanner while making up a new one? That's ridiculous.
No, it is not at all.
The problems with the discontinued one are well documented (mainly to get a consistent and precise focus). When a double digit number of your customers is unsatiesfied and ship the product back for repair, and you have problems to do a good repair, then you have very high costs and your reputation is damaged.
Then it is much better to make a break, and solve the problem at its roots: Make a complete new, improved design.
And that is exactly what Plustek is doing.
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Old 06-14-2019   #26
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No, it is not at all.
The problems with the discontinued one are well documented (mainly to get a consistent and precise focus). When a double digit number of your customers is unsatiesfied and ship the product back for repair, and you have problems to do a good repair, then you have very high costs and your reputation is damaged.
Then it is much better to make a break, and solve the problem at its roots: Make a complete new, improved design.
And that is exactly what Plustek is doing.

Nonsense. The OpticFilm 120 has been on the market for over 5 years. By any metric that's a successful product. Mine has been flawless for the past 4 years.
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Old 06-14-2019   #27
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Mine has been flawless for the past 4 years.

Then be lucky.
I know lots of customers who have had severe problems, which could not be solved. The problems have been discussed in lots of forums, by the way, including rff.
https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=157054

The failure rate with this scanner has been higher than with others. Therefore it is a wise decision by Plustek to make a new, improved design. Kudos to them.
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Old 06-14-2019   #28
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Google searches show no sign of any release date for the OpticFilm 120 Pro. Further, Plustek's web site shows no sign whatsoever that there has been an official announcement for this new scanner. No sign of it at all. Do they want potential customers to buy a competitive scanner or wait?


Vaporware.
Not saying that the OpticFilm 120 Pro isn't vaporware, but their US rep stated on Feb 1 of this year in the e-mail quoted below that it is coming, but not exactly when:

>Hi John,

>Thank you for contacting Plustek.

>Sorry that we're completely out of stock of OF120 because of the recent increased of demand. We're still >looking for an opportunity to get more >from the factory but so far we haven't got any luck. We may, >however, have the opportunity to get a small shipment or may have refurbished units available. It is rare >but is possible.

>Please let me know if you would like to get the update information when it is available.

>On the other hand, there is a new model coming but we are not for sure >when it will be available, either. Perhaps around summer 2019?

>Sorry again for the inconvenience

>Best Regards,
>Plustek Support

Plustek followed this e-mail up later with an offer to buy a refurbished OpticFilm 120. I didn't keep that e-mail, and can't remember when I got it, but it was at least 2-3 months ago.
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Old 06-14-2019   #29
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Interesting that there's high demand for a "defective" scanner.


We'll see how it goes as the year progresses. It makes zero sense to discontinue a model without a replacement one waiting.
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Old 06-14-2019   #30
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Interesting that there's high demand for a "defective" scanner.


We'll see how it goes as the year progresses. It makes zero sense to discontinue a model without a replacement one waiting.
Agreed, and I'll believe it when I see it.

From Plustek's website, it looks like the company has many scanner lines, and perhaps film scanners are not a major business component. Maybe the number of complaints on the old model were a disproportionate drag on the business as a whole, and their engineers had ideas to fix at least the most complained of problem; thus, it made sense to run off the old inventory and get the new model out when they could. Who knows?
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Old 06-14-2019   #31
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No, because there simply is no real lack of scanners in the market currently.
FUD in forums and the market reality are two completely different things.
We see increasing demand for film, and the film manufacturers react with new films.
If the demand for scanners would / will increase in the coming years, we will see new scanners (by the way, we have also seen new scanners in the last years, e.g. by Pacific Image / Reflekta; the Reflekta RPS 10 M surpassed the Coolscan V in resolution).

And: Film photography has become a mainstream medium without any scanners. Scanners are an additional option.
The lower end Plustek and Reflecta units are pretty good and better than a flatbed, but not quite as good as the Nikon 5000/9000ED were.

Kodak should extract their head from their backside and come up with a pair of scanners that are as good or better than the Nikons 5000/9000. The lack of good or professional scanners at a reasonable price is a problem for serious or professional shooters who work in a hybrid workflow.

The X3/X5 were the last option left for a truly high end unit, unless you go with a drum scanner and not everyone is into wet mounting every negative. I was lucky and got my X5 used at a bargain price, but I had to sell a lot of gear to make it work. Given how much a X5 scan costs from a lab it was a smart decision, but a tough nut to swallow up front from a financial standpoint.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the new Plustek 120 model. Hopefully they will have learned from the unit it will replace.


Both the X3/X5 are missing from the Hasselblad site. I read an article somewhere stating that they were discontinued do certain parts no longer being available. Can't find the article to link to it. Maybe Hasselblad will get back into the game, but who knows if they want to spend the R&D money. If the CCD was discontinued I highly doubt they will put the money in to writing the necessary code or a new one.

I wish there was a 50-100MP black and white camera out there that could be used for negative scanning. There are some BW medium format backs, but they are extremely expensive. The next cheapest monochrome camera is a Leica Monochrome, but I think they top out at 24MP.
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Old 06-14-2019   #32
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And: Film photography has become a mainstream medium without any scanners. Scanners are an additional option.
Obviously scanners didn't exist for the first century and then some of analog photography, but given that we now live in the internet age we really need an affordable way of obtaining a high quality film scan for film to continue to survive.

People need to get material on the web for their websites, clients etc and print digitally (not everyone has a darkroom or interest in learning how to wet print). A very high quality scan at an affordable price is the first step.

This is not rocket science and Kodak really should step up to the plate.
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Old 06-14-2019   #33
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Obviously scanners didn't exist for the first century and then some of analog photography, but given that we now live in the internet age we really need an affordable way of obtaining a high quality film scan for film to continue to survive.

People need to get material on the web for their websites, clients etc and print digitally (not everyone has a darkroom or interest in learning how to wet print). A very high quality scan at an affordable price is the first step.

This is not rocket science and Kodak really should step up to the plate.
Which "clients"? For scans, film is 99% amateur market. Rather than forum grearheads, those like me are happy with Epson, Plustek and some cheap no-name manufactured and sold in/from China. Kodak realized it and selling re branded cheap scanner.


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Originally Posted by leicapixie View Post
It seems best bet is to scan with high end digital cameras..

Canon Canada has basically ended film scanners.
There is a "SURCHARGE" almost equal to cost of scanner!
Transport from Canon USA., to Canada.
Best bet check price with B+H.
Uh Oh! no more at B+H...
https://www.vistek.ca/search/?q=scanner

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/F...1/N/4077634573

Canon has nothing to do with film long time ago. With same success you could check Minolta scanners.
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Old 06-15-2019   #34
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This is not rocket science and Kodak really should step up to the plate.
You are 100% correct. It is staggering that Kodak does not offer a top notch, high quality film scanner. It boggles the mind and shows how even to this day, the company is totally mismanaged.

In today's world, they don't even need to build it. There are companies all over Asia that contract out building electronics.
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Old 06-15-2019   #35
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The lower end Plustek and Reflecta units are pretty good and better than a flatbed, but not quite as good as the Nikon 5000/9000ED were.

The Reflekta RPS 10 M delivers a picture quality level even a bit higher compared to Coolscan V and 5000:
https://filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaRPS10M.html
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Old 06-15-2019   #36
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Obviously scanners didn't exist for the first century and then some of analog photography, but given that we now live in the internet age we really need an affordable way of obtaining a high quality film scan for film to continue to survive.
For the internet sharing scene you don't need X1 or X5 quality level scans: Computer monitors with their extremely low resolution and inferior halftone reproduction are the bottlenecks and limiting factors. It is the lowest quality viewing medium.
For internet purposes we have enough different scanners available.

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...... clients etc and print digitally (not everyone has a darkroom or interest in learning how to wet print). A very high quality scan at an affordable price is the first step.
And for that we have the options in the current market.
The film resurgence is a multiple steps process going over lots of coming years:
- first necessity is increasing film demand (we see that now)
- then in the next years new films and reintroduced films will come
- labs get more business, the number of labs increase
- the demand for film cameras will increase as a consequence of more people getting into film
- and in the end all that leads to new cameras, scanners, lab equipment etc; but this process will of course take several years, it cannot happen overnight. We need some patience.

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This is not rocket science and Kodak really should step up to the plate.
Kodak could in the mid and long term, Fujifilm also could, Nikon as well.....or maybe new companies will discover the market.
Did you know 20 years ago Pacific Image? I didn't. And now they are one of the most important scanner manufacturers.
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Old 06-15-2019   #37
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I am shocked as well that a really good scanner is not a more of a mainstream device. Especially with the supposed film resurgence that is happening. Then again, when I used film, I used a darkroom to print.
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Old 06-15-2019   #38
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Probably not much of a demand for them anymore.

Products change.

Some die.

Some don’t.

Never got into scanning. Had someone else do that task. Short time as I switched to digital capture.

Color is a complex subject. The lab I used wanted every file in sRGB. They used Kodak Endura paper. They printed canvas and other like using metallic paper, panos for wedding albums. All options I could make some extra coin.

Info on sRGB color space:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB

Even tho the ACR I had I could use RGB or Pro Photo color space, the lab wanted sRGB. That’s what I did. They did the rest. All I know is they did a very good job. If I had orders transmitted by 9, even 10 in the morning, UPS had then at my studio the next day. I liked that.
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Old 06-15-2019   #39
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I am shocked as well that a really good scanner is not a more of a mainstream device. Especially with the supposed film resurgence that is happening. Then again, when I used film, I used a darkroom to print.
Shocked? Why? Film is not in use anymore by professionals where super high resolution is needed. You could scan 135 for decent prints with Plustek and MF, LF with Epson flatbed. For web even camera will do or cheap MiC scanner.

Resurgence, if any, happened among amateurs, those are happy with iPhone scanning gizmo, because it allows to dump their scans to their major place, Insta. This needs only 600x600 pixels to get hundreds of likes .
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Old 06-15-2019   #40
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I am shocked as well that a really good scanner is not a more of a mainstream device. Especially with the supposed film resurgence that is happening. Then again, when I used film, I used a darkroom to print.
I am not surprised at all. Because
1) we have new scanners in the market, from ICG drum scanners to Noritsu minilab scanners to good Reflekta and Plustek amateur scanners to Epson flatbed scanners.
2) As I said in the Hasselblad thread: The global film revival is young, and it needs time to design new cameras - and new scanners. New hardware comes later in an increasing film market, it belongs to "late indicators".
Look at the time laps Nikon and Canon have had entering the DSLM market. It also took years.
Making new hardware is not a matter of months, but of years.

Cheers, Jan
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