Trimming Film Leader
Old 05-25-2019   #1
healyzh
Registered User
 
healyzh's Avatar
 
healyzh is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 417
Trimming Film Leader

I just bought my first LTM Leica, a IIIf, and was looking into how to go about loading it. This video by Dan Tamarkin shows trimming the film leader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBhFj0Rc2I


Simply put, why?
__________________
Thanks,
Zane

My fflickr photostream

My Zane's Photography website
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2019   #2
Larry Cloetta
Registered User
 
Larry Cloetta is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson, WY
Age: 69
Posts: 1,485
There are several threads here relating to this, here is even a sticky on how to load a bottom loader, which will give lengthy answers to the question of “why” to trim the leader, or even advice saying it’s not necessary.
Start here, and you will probably learn some things which will prove even more helpful to you than the “why”. And, congrats on your new Barnack.

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...ad.php?t=22421
__________________
Larry

“It is about time we take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.” Elliot Erwitt
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2019   #3
peterm1
Registered User
 
peterm1's Avatar
 
peterm1 is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by healyzh View Post
I just bought my first LTM Leica, a IIIf, and was looking into how to go about loading it. This video by Dan Tamarkin shows trimming the film leader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBhFj0Rc2I


Simply put, why?
Why? because if you do not trim the leader it is much harder to load especially when in a hurry - which when you are in the field you often are. It is possible to load without cutting but because you must load through the bottom of the camera the full width "shoulder" part of the shorter leader that comes pre cut has a tendency to catch on the camera's innards, sometimes tearing or jamming. (Poor cutting of the leader can cause this too - in particular make sure not to cut through one of the square winding holes in the film, try to make your cut between them. Also don't cut a sharp corner - round the the corner of the 90 degree turn as a sharp corner provides a tear point.)

It's a pain, but there you are! Try to regard it as part of the "charm" of shooting with an LTM camera. Like winding the film on using a knob instead of using a single or double stroke wind lever as in later cameras. Or not having a light meter.

Usually when cutting mine (when I had an LTM camera) I just ended up "winging it". Pull the leader out the length of the gap between the two cartridges / spools as a guide to length. Then make a the necessary cut using small sharp scissors or a hobby knife with disposable blades in a cutting board and a ruler for the straight lines. Or you can make a template - cardboard or better still, acetate or heavy duty plastic sheeting such as the plastic covers used for office binding machines all work well, the latter being more robust- you can use metal but its not needed. I initially used a template but as I say once I got used to the process gave it up in favor of eyeballing it. I am not sure if anyone is still making the type of template used in the Tamarkin video - they are based on an original Leica design.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #4
oldwino
Registered User
 
oldwino is offline
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 136
Buy a template (big auction site), pre-cut your film leaders, and keep your sanity.

Yes, you CAN load a Barnack without trimming the leader, but when you are in the most hurry to reload, it will inevitably happen to hang up somewhere inside the camera, frustrating you to no end.
__________________
wandering the Earth with an Leica I conv, M2, M-D, a bunch of old lenses, and occasionally a Mamiya-Six or Isolette III.

beckmeyerphotographs.format.com
current stuff https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #5
santino
eXpect me
 
santino's Avatar
 
santino is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Autriche
Posts: 1,061
It is not easy to load a bottom loader without cut film leader but it is rather less important how you cut your leader - imo no need for a dedicated template.
__________________
Vivent les télémétriques ! -
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #6
Steve M.
Registered User
 
Steve M. is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,382
Those templates are way, way over priced (as is everything w/ a Leica/Leitz tag on it). Just make your measurements and marks on your film leader and trim it. Plenty of instructions on the web regarding which sprocket hole to key the cut on. Then after you develop that roll, cut the leader off and bring it w/ you when you take the camera out in case you need to change a roll. Seriously, after cutting a few leaders it will become second nature. Lots of folks use a business card to smoosh the film into that little slot and don't trim the leader. I have never tried it though.

https://www.fedka.com/jay/index_files/Page345.htm
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #7
mteresko
Registered User
 
mteresko is offline
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 34
Photonbox (eb seller sagebrushcity) makes and sells a plastic trimming guide that works great. 25 bucks...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #8
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,461
There's not much to it; without a template you just extend the thin bit of the leader and take care not to cut a spocket hole as you finish the cut. The last bit's the same shape as it was before you cut it off...



Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #9
bayernfan
Registered User
 
bayernfan's Avatar
 
bayernfan is offline
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 717
I don't trim with a guide. I just make a straight cut along the tongue and mimic the original notch (curve), making sure the cut doesn't go thru a sprocket hole. No issues at all.

Trying to load a Barnack without a trimmed leader is a royal pain in the @ss.
__________________
M_V instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #10
webOSUser
Registered User
 
webOSUser's Avatar
 
webOSUser is offline
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 230
Agreed. I have one of sagebrushcity'd film trimmer and it much easier than using a template.

Steve W
Quote:
Originally Posted by mteresko View Post
Photonbox (eb seller sagebrushcity) makes and sells a plastic trimming guide that works great. 25 bucks...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #11
pmviewcam
Registered User
 
pmviewcam is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 13
If you access to a 3-D printer, this does work, as I use one myself.



https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1951048


Cheers,


Peter.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #12
bayernfan
Registered User
 
bayernfan's Avatar
 
bayernfan is offline
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 717
try doing it without a guide/template before becoming reliant on one. keeping track of a template in the field is a pain.
__________________
M_V instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #13
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
 
davidnewtonguitars's Avatar
 
davidnewtonguitars is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,374
Really it depends on the individual camera weather or not you need to trim. I have had several bottom loaders that had no problem with short leaders, even leaders cut square across, like bulk loaded cassettes.
Then I had a Leica II that would foul short leaders every time, so I just cut them a bit longer with scissors.
__________________
Leica M2 / 7artisans 35-f2 / Canon 35-f2 ltm
http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2019   #14
farlymac
PF McFarland
 
farlymac's Avatar
 
farlymac is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 6,206
I use a Photonbox template, and while it works okay, it's not the most convenient way to trim a leader since it has a tendency to come apart when loading it.


One method I used before was to have a drawing on a thick piece of card showing the proper length. I then marked the film before cutting it free hand with scissors. It worked just fine, but was easily misplaced, and wound up in the trash.


PF
__________________
Waiting for the light
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-04-2019   #15
healyzh
Registered User
 
healyzh's Avatar
 
healyzh is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 417
My thanks to everyone that replied. I've finished the first roll and most of the second. I think that I’m hooked. I love the size and weight of the camera compared to even my M6 TTL. Something tells me that I've finally found a "daily carry" camera.
__________________
Thanks,
Zane

My fflickr photostream

My Zane's Photography website
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-04-2019   #16
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
Lots of folks use a business card to smoosh the film into that little slot and don't trim the leader.

I use one of the thin plastic loyalty cards that shops often give you. There's no need to trim the leader at all. You just slot the card in between the pressure plate and film gate all the way to the bottom, then slide the film into the camera in between the card and the pressure plate. No smooshing involved and it works a charm. I'm surprised so many people still trim the leader tbh.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-04-2019   #17
lynnb
Registered User
 
lynnb's Avatar
 
lynnb is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
I use one of the thin plastic loyalty cards that shops often give you. There's no need to trim the leader at all. You just slot the card in between the pressure plate and film gate all the way to the bottom, then slide the film into the camera in between the card and the pressure plate. No smooshing involved and it works a charm. I'm surprised so many people still trim the leader tbh.
Plus one. Easy to do and works perfectly every time.
__________________
Lynn
happiest when shooting 35mm and 120 film
RFF Gallery
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-04-2019   #18
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,636
If you develop your own black and white, the trimmings may be kept aside and used for checking your fixer clearing time prior to fixing.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2019   #19
mcfingon
Western Australia
 
mcfingon is offline
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 1,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnb View Post
Plus one. Easy to do and works perfectly every time.
Plus two. I'm still using a Sydney Circular Quay transport card from 2014...
John Mc
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2019   #20
jcb4718
Registered User
 
jcb4718 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 158
Plus three for the thin plastic card. It really is very simple to use. Just make sure the card is pushed all the way in and it will provide a smooth entry for the film. Then back wind the film until it engages in the sprockets, shoot two blanks, zero the counter and you're ready to go.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2019   #21
lynnb
Registered User
 
lynnb's Avatar
 
lynnb is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcfingon View Post
Plus two. I'm still using a Sydney Circular Quay transport card from 2014...
John Mc
John hold on to that card - it might become collectible!
__________________
Lynn
happiest when shooting 35mm and 120 film
RFF Gallery
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2019   #22
pvdhaar
Zoom with your feet!
 
pvdhaar's Avatar
 
pvdhaar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidnewtonguitars View Post
Really it depends on the individual camera weather or not you need to trim..
I had a FED-1 where it didn't make any difference.. But then again, I never was in a hurry when reloading..
__________________
Kind regards,

Peter

My Hexländer Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2019   #23
kiemchacsu
Registered User
 
kiemchacsu is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hanoi, Vietnam
Age: 38
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by healyzh View Post
I just bought my first LTM Leica, a IIIf, and was looking into how to go about loading it. This video by Dan Tamarkin shows trimming the film leader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBhFj0Rc2I


Simply put, why?

well, this is actualy the first time saw how to load a screw mount leica, as I never had one.
it's really a PAIN to load film, isn't it?
how long would it take one to load film and ready to shot on that camera?
i am glad that i never own one. LOL
__________________
Cheers,
Trung Nguyen

RF
F
photo essays: Hanoi | Hoi An | Ha Giang | Fish Market
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2019   #24
Solinar
Analog Preferred
 
Solinar's Avatar
 
Solinar is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 65
Posts: 2,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiemchacsu View Post
how long would it take one to load film and ready to shot on that camera?
i am glad that i never own one. LOL
It takes less than a minute, to include manually setting the film counter dial.

Needless to say, the original Barnack design for 35mm film isn't everyone's cup of tea. With that said, my Leica Model II, (which dates back to 1932), will be the last camera I will sell. In other words, I may never sell it.
__________________
- Andrew in Austin, Texas -

35mm Gear Bessa R, Leica II, - IIIg, - M2
Just for fun 35mm Gear a Kodak Retina IIa, a Rollei 35 S, plus an Oly 35RD and a Voigtlander Vito II
Modern Medium Format Fuji GW 690III
Vintage MF Folders a Voigtländer Perkeo II and Bessa II, 2 of them - a ZI Mess Ikonta 524/2 - plus an Agfa Super Isolette & a Record III
Digital a D300 and a D700 with some primes - still going over a decade later

"Who spilled the Dektol on the bathroom carpet?"
  Reply With Quote

Guide I made in Illustrator
Old 07-02-2019   #25
Derek Leath
Registered User
 
Derek Leath's Avatar
 
Derek Leath is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 48
Guide I made in Illustrator

Not sure if this will work, but I made a die in Illustrator so I could cut some metal on a Zünd cutter. Works great.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Film_Template_cut.jpg (549.7 KB, 12 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-02-2019   #26
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 71
Posts: 2,533
What I do is cut the film about half off 12 or 13 holes for the leader. This cut part of the film goes into the camera first.

I don’t count them. Too many then just wind the film onto the take up spool until:

You need two holes with the full size (width) of the film exposed, out of the cassette. That means two holes on each end showing.

Then insert the film and the take up reel into the camera. This is the time you can wind the leader on to the take up spool if you cut too much.

Put bottom plate of camera back on.

Then wind a couple of exposures.

Maybe it’s me but I use the rewind knob and gently take up any slack so as it moves each time I advance the film. That way it moves when I advance the film. Just a way I know things are working properly.

You’re set to make some photographs!
__________________
I make photographs as a return ticket to a moment otherwise gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-02-2019   #27
bgetty
Brandon Getty
 
bgetty's Avatar
 
bgetty is offline
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 110
I had to send in my Leica II to get sorted out after a business card mishap. User error maybe, but I'm never trying that technique again.

I've started to pre-trim the leaders on a handful of my fresh rolls, maybe 4-6 at a time depending on how much I'm shooting the II. Just pull the film across the width of the baseplate and eyeball the cut. You can make it a fun little ritual, easily done while sipping a beer with Netflix or an album on. That way there's a stash ready when you are, and you can just grab 'n go without fumbling around on the street. Boom -- just as easy as loading an early M.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-02-2019   #28
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 71
Posts: 2,533
I do the same thing. Then I wind the trimmed leader around the outside of the cassette then use a rubber band to hold it until I’m ready to use the film.
__________________
I make photographs as a return ticket to a moment otherwise gone.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:20.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.