Which "Rodinal"?
Old 05-09-2019   #1
Steve M.
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Which "Rodinal"?

I want to shoot some Tri-X and develop it in Rodinal, but I forgot which one is the "good" Rodinal. My experience 15 years ago was w/ the R08 variant and it worked great but went off in just a few months. Not exactly what I had expected.
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Old 05-09-2019   #2
CharlesDAMorgan
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I use the Adox Rodinal, a single bottle lasting well over 15 months without issue before it ran out.
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Old 05-09-2019   #3
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Only ADOX Rodinal is made of the original, latest Agfa Rodinal formula by Agfa in Germany.
All other clones are slightly different.
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Old 05-09-2019   #4
Steve M.
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Ah, that simplifies it. I'll order some from Freestyle now. Thanks guys.

On the other hand, this makes the case that R09 and Adox Rodinal are identical. I guess the R09 is the new version or the R08 that I used years ago:

https://whystoptime.wordpress.com/20...-adox-rodinal/
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Old 05-09-2019   #5
Skiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
Ah, that simplifies it. I'll order some from Freestyle now. Thanks guys.

On the other hand, this makes the case that R09 and Adox Rodinal are identical. I guess the R09 is the new version or the R08 that I used years ago:

https://whystoptime.wordpress.com/20...-adox-rodinal/
The article is wrong. R09 is not the same. Similar, but not the same.
And R09 is not made by compard. It is only bottled by compard. Compard is not a chemical manufacturer, they are a finishing / bottling company.
And I have never heard of an R08 version.
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Calbe R09 is no longer available
Old 05-09-2019   #6
Solinar
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Calbe R09 is no longer available

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
The article is wrong. R09 is not the same. Similar, but not the same.
The resulting negative using the pre-war R09 formulation will be very similar at higher dilutions.

Calbe R09/APH09 had a slightly lower pH value versus the modern Agfa Gevaert version of Rodinal post 1964. Both concentrates are very alkaline, but they are not exactly the same.

None of this matters, because blue label APH09 has been discontinued.

-

Below is an older discussion on APUG / Photrio:

Difference between R09 and Rodinal

-

Section 9 of the MSDS for the Calbe R09/APH09 shows the concentrate has a pH of 11.8:

https://www.digitaltruth.com/product...09_MSDS_EN.pdf

-

MSDS for Adox Rodinal shows the concentrate to have a pH value of 14, see section 9:

https://www.digitaltruth.com/product...dinal_MSDS.pdf
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Old 05-09-2019   #7
Steve M.
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I would assume that the Adox Rodinal would be more active w/ a higher PH? Believe me, I'm no chemist, so a visit to the old APUG site would only give me way more information than I want or need. The old R08 I had worked great at 1:25 w/ Tri-X. Lots of beautiful grain, it just didn't last long for some reason. I'll go w/ the Adox and see how long it lasts.
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Old 05-09-2019   #8
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Meanwhile there are stories of people using Agfa Rodinal that's been sitting around for years and it's fine. I've developed film in Rodinal diluted from 20 year old concentrate and the results were more or less indistinguishable. The Adox certainly seems to be the same stuff, and anyway I'm pretty comfortable with it and it's longevity (though I may periodically test it as well all get older before I use it on precious film).

I've only used R09 a few times, and not in years, but my memory is that it was a little different, but not much. The reports of its shorter lifespan are worth noting. I'd use it if a client requested it, but otherwise I'll stick with the Adox.
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Old 05-09-2019   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewbarb View Post
Meanwhile there are stories of people using Agfa Rodinal that's been sitting around for years and it's fine. I've developed film in Rodinal diluted from 20 year old concentrate and the results were more or less indistinguishable.
This is as much about the bottle as the developer. Various Rodinal formulae are good at resisting oxidation, but bottles that allow free movement of oxygen facilitate oxidation and developer failure.

Marty
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Old 05-10-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
This is as much about the bottle as the developer. Various Rodinal formulae are good at resisting oxidation, but bottles that allow free movement of oxygen facilitate oxidation and developer failure.

Marty



That's the big problem. Rodinal used to come in little brown glass bottles. By the time I learned to develop film in High School around 1991, they were using plastic. I bought a bunch of small brown glass chemical bottles, which I use to store my Rodinal.
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Old 05-10-2019   #11
Skiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solinar View Post
The resulting negative using the pre-war R09 formulation will be very similar at higher dilutions.

Calbe R09/APH09 had a slightly lower pH value versus the modern Agfa Gevaert version of Rodinal post 1964. Both concentrates are very alkaline, but they are not exactly the same.

None of this matters, because blue label APH09 has been discontinued.
I didn't want to go to far into all the details in my post above, but probably its necessary:
1. There was the former pre-war Rodinal R09 formulation. That had been produced by Calbe in Germany quite a long time (and also offered by ADOX APH09), but it is indeed discontinued now.
2. There is the "R09 One Shot" bottled by compard. That is neither the pre-war R09, nor the latest original Agfa formula. It is a clone made by Tetenal. Similar to Rodinal, but not identical.
3. There is Tetenal Paranol S as Rodinal clone. Similar, but not completely identical to Rodinal.

4. There is ADOX Rodinal and ADONAL. That is the original Agfa formula which was used by Agfa before they stopped production. ADOX has bought the formula and the rights/name.
ADOX is using high quality bottles with an inner coating, which reduces oxygene diffusion very significantly and improves shelf life.
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Old 05-10-2019   #12
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Having used the R09 One Shot for the last ten years or so, would I see any difference in switching to the ADOX Rodinal? I use both 1:25 and 1:50 dilutions. The image in that link above would lead me to believe I would not.

I directly asked Mirko but said he was unable to comment on the R09.
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Old 05-10-2019   #13
ColSebastianMoran
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I used ADONAL with good results and good stability for a while.

Do be careful: All these are caustic enough to give a wicked burn; a splash into the eye could be catastrophic.
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Old 05-10-2019   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
I directly asked Mirko but said he was unable to comment on the R09.
Because he is an honest gentleman not commenting on products of competitors.
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Old 05-12-2019   #15
Freakscene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
Having used the R09 One Shot for the last ten years or so, would I see any difference in switching to the ADOX Rodinal? I use both 1:25 and 1:50 dilutions. The image in that link above would lead me to believe I would not.

I directly asked Mirko but said he was unable to comment on the R09.
The short answer is no. All para-aminophenol developers with an hydroxide alkali and a little sulphite (added as metabisulphite, but all the hydroxide alkalinity turns it into sulphite) produce negatives that essentially look the same.

There was a guy who used to (and may still) preach on the internet that 'real' Rodinal was made with lithium hydroxide as the alkali, which he claimed was nearly impossible to obtain, but, if used, would magically turn make a Rodinal that would be a silver development bullet. Lithium hydroxide is not hard to get, nor is it a magic bullet. At the same pH it doesn't really matter much what cation accompanies your hydroxide.

I am pretty sure with Adox product you don't need to decant into other bottles or worry about batch variation. Fortunately.

Marty
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Old 05-21-2019   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
Ah, that simplifies it. I'll order some from Freestyle now. Thanks guys.

On the other hand, this makes the case that R09 and Adox Rodinal are identical. I guess the R09 is the new version or the R08 that I used years ago:

https://whystoptime.wordpress.com/20...-adox-rodinal/

Was R08 a typo? I have never heard of it. Agfa's recipe 8 is a glycin based developer (a good one I may add, and sharp as Rodinal).
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Old 05-21-2019   #17
Ko.Fe.
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I can't buy Rodinal in Canada, if I'm not mistaken. It comes under another name and just fine developer. It goes dark brown and crystals on the bottom, but it works just fine.

https://lightprogroup.com/products/b...odinal-formula
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Old 05-21-2019   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I can't buy Rodinal in Canada, if I'm not mistaken. It comes under another name and just fine developer. It goes dark brown and crystals on the bottom, but it works just fine.

https://lightprogroup.com/products/b...odinal-formula
Blazinal is the Canadian brand name used by Compard for R09 One Shot. I use it exclusively for excellent results and easy of use.
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Old 05-22-2019   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
The short answer is no.

Marty
Thank you. I do like to support ADOX.
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Old 05-22-2019   #20
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Currently, I use Agfa Rodinal.

Bought from eBay DE, 2 years ago, produced 1973 still works until today.




My Rodinal stock


ADOX Rodinal also good choices.
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Old 05-22-2019   #21
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i got the same 500ml plastic bottle as Toreno shows above, it's open since at least 2005, half full, dark brown with some crystals here and there, works as new.

I even attempted paper dev in it it worked at 1:75 though i didn't get maximum black in 12 minutes and i lost patience. Didn't bother to fix the paper as it looked bad anyway - till next day it turned bright pink)
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