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Old 04-15-2019   #81
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
They were on the internal list for discontinuation, but then Fujifilm cancelled that decision and kept them in the line because of the positive market changes.
So you have insight into their internal documents (any hints on what's on their current disco list)?

Do you know why Fuji wouldn't sell Velvia 50 in 4x5 outside Japan so the distributors have to use unofficial channels to get that film?
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Old 04-15-2019   #82
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That was the number for the North American market only.
The global market had its peak in 1999/2000 with about 3 billion rolls (source: Fujifilm Japan), and/or according to the PMA in 2001/2002 with about 3.5 billion rolls (including all formats and SUC). You will find this data in R. Shanebrooks book "Making Kodak Film" on page 267.
The GfK (big global market research company) published a number of 2.8 billion rolls for 1994/95.



This comment again demonstrates that you have no clue at all about this industry. For almost a decade now the global market research companies did not collect data anymore. And before that you had to pay lots of money for the data.
Now only the manufacturers, the distributors and small independent market researchers have the data (and we talked to them, not to "marketing people"). I've worked for decades as a professional photographer, lot's of excellent contacts remained.
Ilford e.g. had +9% in film sales in 2017, Kodak +5 to +20% depending on the market. Bergger had delivery problems because the batch of Pancro 400 IC made for them has been sold in only one year instaed of the expected two years. Fotoimpex explained they have double digit growth for years. Fujifilm Europe had massive film backorders, because demand surpassed supply in first half of 2018. Fujifilm introduced the new Maxima high-quality silver-halide paper at Photokina. JOBO is introducing new lab gear because of increasing demand (they were very satiesfied with demand from the Photokina, too). Just some examples from the last Photokina.

Again:
All the major companies in this industry have introduced new products, are currently working on new products and / or have started numerous marketing efforts. All very clear signs of the recent positive market change.
Why continue with the insults? I'm asking completely fair and relevant questions.

For the sake of discussion, let's say you know an investor that would like to put money into this growing market. Convince the investor with the published data that backs up your claims.

If it exists, that shouldn't be hard to do...
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Old 04-15-2019   #83
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Originally Posted by brbo View Post
So you have insight into their internal documents (any hints on what's on their current disco list)?
As a long term customer for decades I've built a trustful relationsship to their staff responsible for distribution. No current disco list. The film programme is as it was presentd at Photokina.

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Originally Posted by brbo View Post
Do you know why Fuji wouldn't sell Velvia 50 in 4x5 outside Japan so the distributors have to use unofficial channels to get that film?
No, sorry, even my contacts there have no explanation why it is only available in Japan. But intrepid is regularly importing it to Europe meanwhile.
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Old 04-15-2019   #84
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For the sake of discussion, let's say you know an investor that would like to put money into this growing market. Convince the investor with the published data that backs up your claims.

If it exists, that shouldn't be hard to do...
Exactly, it is not hard. The manufacturers have the data for their company, and presented it to investors:
- Ilford has got an investor in 2015, a private equity group
- Film Ferrania has got an investor last summer
- ADOX CEO said investors have asked to invest in ADOX, but he rejected because he wants to keep full control over his "life-work" (which I can completely understand).
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Old 04-15-2019   #85
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
No, sorry, even my contacts there have no explanation why it is only available in Japan. But intrepid is regularly importing it to Europe meanwhile.
I know, that's where I get it. Maco also has it available on occasions for very short periods. Odd. There obviously is a demand, but no steady supply.
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Old 04-15-2019   #86
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Exactly, it is not hard. The manufacturers have the data for their company, and presented it to investors:
- Ilford has got an investor in 2015, a private equity group
- Film Ferrania has got an investor last summer
- ADOX CEO said investors have asked to invest in ADOX, but he rejected because he wants to keep full control over his "life-work" (which I can completely understand).
And...still no data presented. Oh well...

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Old 04-15-2019   #87
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
All the major companies in this industry have introduced new products,

Far more products have been discontinued than introduced.



Fujfiilm leads the pack in discontinuing emulsions.
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Old 04-15-2019   #88
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Fujfiilm leads the pack in discontinuing emulsions.
I think Fuji is the main indicator of the health of the film industry. If they start bringing back their B&W film and/or re-introducing something like the Klasse or the GA645 then we'll know we're in a film renaissance.
Heck, if all the supermarkets that sell Instax start selling Fuji 35mm or 120 film alongside it that'll be something

Otherwise film is still a niche within a niche
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Old 04-15-2019   #89
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I think Fuji is the main indicator of the health of the film industry. If they start bringing back their B&W film and/or re-introducing something like the Klasse or the GA645 then we'll know we're in a film renaissance.
That is simply delusional. I think most would be happy if the bleeding stopped at Fuji.
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Old 04-16-2019   #90
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
That is simply delusional. I think most would be happy if the bleeding stopped at Fuji.

It may be delusional, but it's not totally unrealistic.


Fujifilm brought back Neopan 400 and Velvia.



Bringing back the Klasse cameras would certainly fit in with a film renaissance. Those were built by Cosina, not Fujifilm. Surely they could build them again. They were excellent cameras and priced very reasonably at under $500. Today they sell for over $1000!


I deeply regret not buying a Klasse camera when I was in Japan many years ago. Fujifilm said at the time that they were totally committed to film so I didnt have a sense of urgency.


Now I know how dishonest Fujifilm was. They discontinued that camera less than 6 months later.
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Old 04-16-2019   #91
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Now I know how dishonest Fujifilm was. They discontinued that camera less than 6 months later.
You mean someone in marketing didn't tell the truth? 😱😱
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Old 04-16-2019   #92
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Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
You mean someone in marketing didn't tell the truth? 😱😱
Phil Forrest
Hmm, this is unpossible!
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Old 04-16-2019   #93
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
That is simply delusional. I think most would be happy if the bleeding stopped at Fuji.
I think you've missed the point somewhat
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Old 04-19-2019   #94
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Fujfiilm leads the pack in discontinuing emulsions.
Wrong.
Kodak has discontinued more emulsions in the last 15 years than Fujifilm.
Just look at Shanebrook's book 'Making Kodak Film'. Then you will see at once how much was axed. It is listed there.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 04-19-2019   #95
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Bringing back the Klasse cameras would certainly fit in with a film renaissance. Those were built by Cosina, not Fujifilm. Surely they could build them again. They were excellent cameras and priced very reasonably at under $500. Today they sell for over $1000!

I deeply regret not buying a Klasse camera when I was in Japan many years ago. Fujifilm said at the time that they were totally committed to film so I didnt have a sense of urgency.

Now I know how dishonest Fujifilm was. They discontinued that camera less than 6 months later.
Again complete nonsense.
Fujifilm was absolutely honest about the 'Klasse' cameras. They were introduced in 2006. In a time, when most other manufacturers stopped film camera production.
And Fujifilm clearly said that this series is a limited production run of 8,000 cameras.
Everyone knew from the beginning that this offer is for a limited time.
Dedicated to the Japanese market, because in all other countries at that time no one was interested in a new film compact camera anymore. The digital boom was in full swing at that time.
Kudos to Fujifilm that they did this production run at that time. No other film manufacturer did that.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 04-19-2019   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
It may be delusional, but it's not totally unrealistic.


Fujifilm brought back Neopan 400 and Velvia.



Bringing back the Klasse cameras would certainly fit in with a film renaissance. Those were built by Cosina, not Fujifilm. Surely they could build them again. They were excellent cameras and priced very reasonably at under $500. Today they sell for over $1000!


I deeply regret not buying a Klasse camera when I was in Japan many years ago. Fujifilm said at the time that they were totally committed to film so I didnt have a sense of urgency.


Now I know how dishonest Fujifilm was. They discontinued that camera less than 6 months later.
In case if you missed it, Cosina quit from film cameras some years ago. And very few of those who wants this klasse thing is not even niche market. It is no market for Cosina.
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Old 04-20-2019   #97
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Wrong.
Kodak has discontinued more emulsions in the last 15 years than Fujifilm.
Just look at Shanebrook's book 'Making Kodak Film'. Then you will see at once how much was axed. It is listed there.

Cheers, Jan
Kodak went bankrupt. I'm talking about a stable company axing films. Fujifilm is robustly profitable. To an extent that Kodak cannot dream of. Fujifilm's share price is going up and to the right. Kodak's share price is in free fall. Investors are pricing in a second bankruptcy. If the current trend continues, Kodak will fall below $2/share. This month.

Fujifilm is profitable and has axed a huge amount of their films.

That is forever to Fujifilm's shame.
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Old 04-20-2019   #98
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Fujifilm is profitable and has axed a huge amount of their films.
Fujfilm remained profitable in film production because they have stopped non-profitable products with too low demand.
Bitter for us photographers now, but good in the long-term because that keeps film production there running.
And it builds the basis for returning of films in the future when demand has increased enough so that it will be profitable again.

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That is forever to Fujifilm's shame.
Future will show that it was hard action necessary to keep the lines running.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 04-20-2019   #99
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And it builds the basis for returning of films in the future when demand has increased enough so that it will be profitable again.
So Fuji is going to keep the buildings and machinery idle and in good repair, and the employees trained and ready, while it patiently waits on a return of demand? Right next to its buggy whip factories?
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Old 04-20-2019   #100
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Hi,

disclaimer first: This posting is not adressed to all the "doom and gloom" prayers here. They will be hurt by the content , and therefore should stop reading immediately at this point .

This posting is just a bit more detailed information and facts for all of those here on rff who really shoot film and want a realistic picture of the situation on the market.
A roll of Velvia at 16 Euro tells me enough about the market situation...

https://www.nordfoto.de/analoge-foto...135-36-rvp-100
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Old 04-20-2019   #101
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You know you can buy buy today, buggy whips from many sources, and in multiple styles? That is about 120 years after they were worrying about it in the forums of the day.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
So Fuji is going to keep the buildings and machinery idle and in good repair, and the employees trained and ready, while it patiently waits on a return of demand? Right next to its buggy whip factories?
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Old 04-20-2019   #102
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You know you can buy buy today, buggy whips from many sources, and in multiple styles? That is about 120 years after they were worrying about it in the forums of the day.
I'm grateful that Jason Lane is making dry plates but I hope it does not become the business model for 35mm film.
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Old 04-20-2019   #103
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So Fuji is going to keep the buildings and machinery idle and in good repair, and the employees trained and ready, while it patiently waits on a return of demand?
It has been explained here again, and again, and again.

Their buildings and machines are all in use!! For production of
- instax color film
- instax BW film
- C200
- Superia X-Tra 400 / Premium 400
- Pro 400H
- Velvia 50
- Velvia 100
- Provia 100F
- X-ray film
- archiving films
Fact is that Fujifilm is by far the biggest photo film manufacturer in the world. Their instax film production alone is bigger than the whole film production of Kodak, Ilford, Foma and all the other smaller companies together!
Films are all produced on the same coating machines. Every film manufacturer is doing that. Often even photo paper is coated on the same machines. Therefore Fujifilm has all the machines needed for a later re-introduction of emulsions.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 04-20-2019   #104
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It has been explained here again, and again, and again.

Their buildings and machines are all in use!! For production of
- instax color film
- instax BW film
- C200
- Superia X-Tra 400 / Premium 400
- Pro 400H
- Velvia 50
- Velvia 100
- Provia 100F
- X-ray film
- archiving films
Fact is that Fujifilm is by far the biggest photo film manufacturer in the world. Their instax film production alone is bigger than the whole film production of Kodak, Ilford, Foma and all the other smaller companies together!
Films are all produced on the same coating machines. Every film manufacturer is doing that. Often even photo paper is coated on the same machines. Therefore Fujifilm has all the machines needed for a later re-introduction of emulsions.
So Fuji went from 100% to 2% production and yet all of its facilities and machinery are still in use? Amazing.
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Old 04-20-2019   #105
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Well, for Fuji the bringing back films has not been applied for Reala, Astia and Neopan, amongst others. Glad Instax keeps the machinery running.

And the buggy whip analogy is far from applicable as making color film is closer to rocket science.

I'll be just glad to keep on shooting with the options we have. Aside of continuous consumption, unless anyone here is a billionaire who decides to buy Kodak and make it their playground, it's rather pointless.
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Old 04-20-2019   #106
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Old 04-20-2019   #107
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Mailers -- high volume processing from properly maintained equipment, fresh chemicals, and properly trained technicians.
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Old 04-20-2019   #108
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Mailers -- high volume processing from properly maintained equipment, fresh chemicals, and properly trained technicians.
B&H sells Kodak and Fuji E6 film with mailers. It looks like the film goes to Dwaynes.
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Old 04-21-2019   #109
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So Fuji went from 100% to 2% production and yet all of its facilities and machinery are still in use? Amazing.
Fujifilm WILL discontinue more films. Bank on it.
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Old 04-21-2019   #110
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And...still no data presented. Oh well...

You have very unrealistic expectations.
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Old 04-21-2019   #111
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I somewhat surprised the OP's post has ignited so much controversy and bickering. Whatever the reason film sales sure seem to have at least stabilized over the past 2~3 years. This after a precipitous decline in the first 15 or 16 years of the new century.
I believe the suddenness of that decline has caused no little concern among film enthusiast
Home darkroom work has also taken a serious plunge. This was driven home to me a few years ago when a Omega B22 sat all day at a photo show without a nibble and finally wound up in the free pile.....and still no takers.
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Old 04-21-2019   #112
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You have very unrealistic expectations.
Tru.


......
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Old 04-21-2019   #113
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1. Yep. MP and M-A. former's been out for a while now, latter is relatively new.

I recently bought an M-A and it has a 'new-block' serial number, 51xxxxx rather than 49xxxxx. Someone over on the Leica forum just bought an MP and it too had a new block number. This doesn't even include those who buy such cameras and have the audacity not to mention it in one forum or another.
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Old 04-21-2019   #114
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You know you can buy buy today, buggy whips from many sources, and in multiple styles? That is about 120 years after they were worrying about it in the forums of the day.

Forums of their day were probably also where they sold beer across the bar. And people think the internet is good...
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Old 04-23-2019   #115
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So Fuji is going to keep the buildings and machinery idle and in good repair, and the employees trained and ready, while it patiently waits on a return of demand? Right next to its buggy whip factories?
You do realize, I hope, that newly manufactured buggy whips are still available.

http://www.theoriginalhorsetackcompa...89993-prd1.htm
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Old 06-04-2019   #116
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Does anyone have experience with MEMPHIS FILM LAB, a mail order only company? https://www.memphisfilmlab.org/
It is taking about a month turnaround of 12-15 rolls of c41 & scans for Austin based Precision Photo.
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Old 06-04-2019   #117
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Does anyone have experience with MEMPHIS FILM LAB, a mail order only company? https://www.memphisfilmlab.org/
It is taking about a month turnaround of 12-15 rolls of c41 & scans for Austin based Precision Photo.
A month ?! (insert spit take here)
Use someone else like northcoastphoto.com - about a 2 week turnaround tops w/ excellent results.
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Old 06-05-2019   #118
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You do realize, I hope, that newly manufactured buggy whips are still available..
Yes! Let's start a thread on buggy whip sales nowadays compared to a century ago.. Let's also discuss which companies discontinued them and whether their marketing department was honest!
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Old 06-05-2019   #119
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Does anyone have experience with MEMPHIS FILM LAB, a mail order only company? https://www.memphisfilmlab.org/
It is taking about a month turnaround of 12-15 rolls of c41 & scans for Austin based Precision Photo.

What film have you been sending to Precision? They only do C-41 in house as far as I know. If you are sending them E6 or B&W that might contribute to the delay as they send those to another lab for processing. Either way, a month is far too long (speaking from experience as I was the person who started this offer nearly ten years ago when I worked there.)
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Old 06-05-2019   #120
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All c-41 The price and quality is fine, a 2 week turn around would be acceptable. They charged my card as soon as they received my film, and I am counting calendar days since they received the film.

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What film have you been sending to Precision? They only do C-41 in house as far as I know.
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