ADOX presentation on the current state of film manufacture
Old 03-19-2019   #1
Larry Cloetta
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ADOX presentation on the current state of film manufacture

ADOX rep at Finnish film fair in Helsinki March 15, 2019. Interesting presentation on the current state of the film production industry, which doesn’t sugar coat the challenges. Some information which probably isn’t obvious to everyone; Q and A at the end worth watching as well.
If you’re all digital, which seems to be most people here, probably not so much, but those using film likely to find this illuminating.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...&v=Z4-WLDm-e8A
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Old 03-19-2019   #2
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Very interesting. Adox has my support. I just bought a box of 4x5 CHS 100 II. Look forward to using it, once the snow melts.

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Old 03-19-2019   #3
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As someone who is finishing a business plan for a small film lab, this was great to see! thanks for posting. I'll have to add more ADOX in my initial inventory purchases.
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Old 03-19-2019   #4
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Very interesting. I am glad I am buying this film and will surely continue supporting their business.
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Old 03-19-2019   #5
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Thanks for posting the link, enlightening in many regards.
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Old 03-19-2019   #6
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Interesting presentation. I am glad to see they continue to move forward as a company.



I enjoy using both CMSII and Silvermax and find both films to be very good. In fact I think I slightly prefer Silvermax to any other similar speed films I have used. I just wish that they had a ISO 400 film in their repertoire. Maybe in the future.
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Old 03-19-2019   #7
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Interesting presentation. I am glad to see they continue to move forward as a company.

I enjoy using both CMSII and Silvermax and find both films to be very good. In fact I think I slightly prefer Silvermax to any other similar speed films I have used. I just wish that they had a ISO 400 film in their repertoire. Maybe in the future.

I've been following ADOX for quite a long while, and their efforts to bring new and legacy products from the ashes. They did infact have an APX400 replacement which did not go past a test release, given market saturation at ISO 400 (HP5 and TriX being mainly there) and then there was the Efke liquidation which had them making CHSII as a replacement.


APX100 seems to be back in the form of Silvermax. I've tried a bit of it in 35mm but need more experience to form a solid opinion of it.


Interesting to see the insights from Mirko himself.
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Old 03-19-2019   #8
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Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
ADOX rep at Finnish film fair in Helsinki March 15, 2019. Interesting presentation on the current state of the film production industry, which doesn’t sugar coat the challenges. Some information which probably isn’t obvious to everyone; Q and A at the end worth watching as well.
If you’re all digital, which seems to be most people here, probably not so much, but those using film likely to find this illuminating.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...&v=Z4-WLDm-e8A
Thanks for the link. Very interesting. But nothing really new for those who followed ADOX with their efforts during the last years.
Because their founder, owner and CEO M. Boedekker has been very transparent all the time and reportetd about all their challenges, set-backs and progresses.
We need such companies in the market!

Just one important comment:
The numbers concerning the film market at its peak time are not correct: Instead of 900 million rolls of film it had been about 3 billion rolls in year 2000.
Both Kodak and Fujifilm have reported the 3 billion number some years ago.
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Old 03-20-2019   #9
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Thst was excellent and enlightening, thanks for sharing! It seems to me there needs to be an emphasis on succession planning; getting young staffers with twenty, thirty, forty years future ahead of them into the industry and keeping them there. Because film has become an enthusiasts' product, it ought to attract those future workers who are motivated by keeping film alive, not just those who see it as a career option amongst other industries.

This applies to sales and marketing and advertising as well as production and research. I wish Adox every success for a promising future.
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Old 03-20-2019   #10
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I know Adox/Fotoimpex quite well. Bought from another big german retailer (Maco) for several years before I realised what Mirko is doing @Adox. I buy everything there since and fortunately my office is 500m away from their main "street store" in Berlin.

Compared to eating it's like being vegetarian: Meat = respooled surveillance film, I don't buy stuff like Rollei Superpan, Rollei Retro (JCH Street Pan) etc. anymore and only support the last real manufacturers such as Adox, Ilford and Kodak, especially Adox
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Old 04-05-2019   #11
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That is a very good and important presentation by the ADOX CEO.
He is very honest and open minded.
And it is extremely important that the film community get the knowledge about all the difficulties and challenges the film industry has to face.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 04-05-2019   #12
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Really interesting to hear from one of the few specialists. Many challenges but at least there is at last a growth that can provide some optimism, noted on the need to pay a bit more.
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Old 04-05-2019   #13
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Mirko B. is a hero. Their paper, MCC 110 fibre base b+w paper, is absolutely first class.


Erik.
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Old 04-05-2019   #14
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Mirko B. is a hero. Their paper, MCC 110 fibre base b+w paper, is absolutely first class.

Erik.

+1.
And the Adox MCP is also excellent. I am looking forward to their new Polywarmtone paper. They said that it will be introduced this year.
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Old 04-05-2019   #15
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I, too, really enjoyed the video and learned a lot about the technical and economic challenges of making film and photographic paper. I have used ADOX papers in the past and loved them. This video makes my want to try some of the films. I would like to do my part to help ADOX succeed.
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Old 04-06-2019   #16
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I, too, really enjoyed the video and learned a lot about the technical and economic challenges of making film and photographic paper. I have used ADOX papers in the past and loved them. This video makes my want to try some of the films. I would like to do my part to help ADOX succeed.
Aaron, you really should try their films, because they have unique characteristics:
- ADOX CMS 20 II: Incredible high resolving film with super fine grain. No limits for enlargement!
- ADOX HR-50: Extremely fine grain and very good resolution. Excellent separated mid-tones. Can also be used as infrared film with IR-filter. And you get outstanding results with it as a BW reversal film (slides) in the Scala reversal process.
- ADOX CHS 100 II: Better detail rendition than FP4+ and Fomapan 100. Available in all (rare) sheet formats you want (!) up to even 50x60cm!!

Cheers, Jan
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Old 04-06-2019   #17
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Ordered some CHS 100 II in 4x5 from Photoimpex. I like low speed in my pinhole as it reduces the risk of fingers being photographed operating the shutter...
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Old 04-07-2019   #18
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Originally Posted by CharlesDAMorgan View Post
Ordered some CHS 100 II in 4x5 from Photoimpex. I like low speed in my pinhole as it reduces the risk of fingers being photographed operating the shutter...

ADOX CHS 100 II is an excellent film. I've used the first run, and now also did my first shots on the current production. I am very satiesfied: A very sharp, good resolving fine grain film with wonderful tonality.
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Old 04-07-2019   #19
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ADOX CHS 100 II is an excellent film. I've used the first run, and now also did my first shots on the current production. I am very satiesfied: A very sharp, good resolving fine grain film with wonderful tonality.
I agree. I bought a box of 4X5 CHS 100 II a few weeks back and shot four sheets the other day. A very impressive film, fine-grained with very nice tones. It will probably replace FP4 as my standard 100 speed 4x5 film.

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Old 04-07-2019   #20
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I can't wait until they finally produce an ISO 400.


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Old 04-07-2019   #21
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I can't wait until they finally produce an ISO 400.


Erok.
+1

ADOX APX 400
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Old 04-07-2019   #22
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I can't wait until they finally produce an ISO 400.


Erok.
They did produce an APX400 substitute, which was shelved after a sold test run in favor of producing CHSII after Efke went bankrupt.
I wonder how easy or hard would it be to put back into production, given the complexity of supply lines and that was manufactured under Inoviscoat and not their new coater.


Mirko does give a positive view in the interview at 17:30 saying there is a market for 400.


OT but if there are players introducing new films (non rebranded) such as Catlabs 320 and 80 film, means there are market openings after all.
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Old 04-07-2019   #23
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The Bergger Pancro 400 is another new film (which I happen to love as it offers something in between old style HP5 and Delta/Tmax T Grain), but like most things in film there is little information on its viability.

I would say I shoot 90% 400 with 100 next and then the tiniest of smatterings of the extreme end of the range. I'm always happy to experiment with genuine new films.
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Old 04-07-2019   #24
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They did produce an APX400 substitute, which was shelved after a sold test run in favor of producing CHSII after Efke went bankrupt.
I wonder how easy or hard would it be to put back into production, given the complexity of supply lines and that was manufactured under Inoviscoat and not their new coater.
If I remember right, the CEO of ADOX said last year that their future ISO 400/27° will be better than their first try some years ago.

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OT but if there are players introducing new films (non rebranded) such as Catlabs 320 and 80 film, means there are market openings after all.
We have to wait and see what this film really is. CatLabs is a distributor, not a film producing factory. Most probably some of the established manufacturers make this for them. And when we have first films tested, we will see from which it is derived and whether it is good.
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Old 04-07-2019   #25
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The Bergger Pancro 400 is another new film (which I happen to love as it offers something in between old style HP5 and Delta/Tmax T Grain), but like most things in film there is little information on its viability.
It is not really so new. It was developed by Inoviscoat some years ago. For quite some time they did not find a customer for it (in that time the market was still declining). Then they made a deal with Bergger producing this film for them. Bergger is a pure distribution company with no own manufacturing capabilities.
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Old 04-07-2019   #26
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It is not really so new. It was developed by Inoviscoat some years ago. For quite some time they did not find a customer for it (in that time the market was still declining). Then they made a deal with Bergger producing this film for them. Bergger is a pure distribution company with no own manufacturing capabilities.

Still, it's the most recent among B&W 400 speed films.


Bergger is certainly not a manufacturer, however the products they offer are unique which is all that matters.
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Old 04-08-2019   #27
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Indeed, it offers me something unique as a film shooter, and is not some expired old traffic camera film in an exciting package.

As to vertical integration, after a lifetime in financial analysis, there are many routes to market and sticking to core competencies is sound business practise. It is irrelevant to me as a consumer.
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Old 04-08-2019   #28
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Bergger is certainly not a manufacturer, however the products they offer are unique which is all that matters.
Yes, that is right.
But they are completely dependent on the real manufacturers who are producing for them. And that can be problematic: We've just recently seen that with Pancro 400, which was not available for quite a long time in certain formats. The reason for that: Inoviscoat's main business is production of the negative film bases for Polaroid Originals. This production comes first there and has absolut priority. All other, much much smaller customers have to wait up to the point when there is a small free space in IC's production schedule.
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Old 04-08-2019   #29
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I agree with the availability being a problem, I was down to my last two rolls of 35mm. But I am now keeping a larger stock for the next time there's an issue. But contract manufacturing is here to stay in many industries and I don't really get bothered by it. Your mileage evidently varies, but as a 100% film shooter I am glad of the extra choice. Which is the last thing I shall say on the subject as I want to go out and shoot some film!
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Old 05-14-2019   #30
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ADOX CHS 100 II is an excellent film. I've used the first run, and now also did my first shots on the current production. I am very satiesfied: A very sharp, good resolving fine grain film with wonderful tonality.
Yes, just developed my first two pinhole shots on Adox CHS 100 II. Beautiful tones, and despite one being almost 2 stops under-exposed (I had to guess reciprocity the light was so low - an hour and twenty minutes was far too short) I've got a great image after playing in Lightroom. I'm very impressed!
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Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
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