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Accosted in COSTA
Old 02-21-2019   #1
kuvvy
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Accosted in COSTA

Out and about this morning, doing errands etc and I decided it was coffee time so headed for my local COSTA.
Of course, I had my camera with me and I sat there adjusting settings and trying the various modes etc. I took a couple of close-up shots of the bottler of water on the table (no masterpiece here Im afraid).
Three young girls had been sat next to me studying college work or some such (didn't point my camera their way I might add).
Moments after they left, I was approached by two ladies who said the young girls had informed them I had been taking photos pointing down the coffee shop, I assume towards these ladies, though I don't even know where they were sat.
One lady went on about 'civil infringement' and how I shouldn't take photos of them and how her husband was a professional photographer (what's the chances eh?) and she knew all about this.
I explained I hadn't taken shots of anyone, I was a wedding photographer for a number of years and that I'm currently in the photo trade so I'm aware of such things, as are most photographers these days. They then went on their not so merry way.

To be honest I couldn't give a flying *** what they thought. I'd done nothing wrong but it still pisses me off when people approach in a high and mighty attitude and citing the law at you.

Rant over.
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Old 02-21-2019   #2
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Yeah, it’s no fun dealing with this when you haven’t even taken someone’s photo.
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Old 02-21-2019   #3
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There is a Youtube channel called 'Crime Bodge'. Has some information there that i find useful. Overall, privacy in public does not exist, now being in COSTA, the owners could have made a fuss about it but .. hey .. they didn't.
Not sure what those ladies were after but doesn't matter any way. I usually say to them to call the police if they think something was wrong.
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Old 02-21-2019   #4
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I usually say to them to call the police if they think something was wrong.
This - or offer to call the police yourself, and ask them if they'd be so kind as to wait until they arrive.

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Old 02-21-2019   #5
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Fair to say many of us have been in similar situations.

I always find myself thinking “... some peoples kids..”

Your a better man than I. I would not have kind words for that sort of stupid.
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Old 02-21-2019   #6
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Just think how many cctv cameras she passed during her day. And she's probably on facebook..., and she probably has a fitbit...


And so it goes...
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Old 02-21-2019   #7
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What is the status of street photography in Europe? I know in Spain there are some issues, and I think all over the EU countries there are issues. On the other hand, cities and companies can put up as many surveillance cameras in public as they want, apparently (was just in Cannes, saw them all over the place).
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Old 02-21-2019   #8
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What is the status of street photography in Europe? I know in Spain there are some issues, and I think all over the EU countries there are issues. On the other hand, cities and companies can put up as many surveillance cameras in public as they want, apparently (was just in Cannes, saw them all over the place).
This is sadly ironic where the root of strict European privacy law is a reaction to state surveillance... also where it was Orwell in the UK who first flagged the possibility of a video surveillance state as dystopian.

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Old 02-21-2019   #9
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Civil infringement? Someone making it up on the spot.

I don't take many street photos but in the UK a photographer is free to take photos in a public place (or private with the permission of the owner). The subject has no rights in the matter whatsoever. I just avoid children (but you are free to photograph them too). Just avoid harassment or making pornography or indeed, serving members of the Armed Forces.
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Old 02-21-2019   #10
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No real issues in the UK if you donít force it in peopleís faces. Generally speaking if youíre polite about it you wonít have any issues. I always point my camera out of our bedroom window to check infinity focus on a new lens... my wife is forever telling me to stop or the neighbours will think Iím a weirdo taking pictures of them. Photographers are a certain breed.
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Old 02-21-2019   #11
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In UK things are straight forward. You can photograph anything/anyone if you are in public. You can even photograph prohibited buildings (i.e. military bases or police offices) although expect to receive a lot of hussle. There are legal restrictions regarding photographing in public below ladies skirts (if you are into these things) and you will end up in court probably for something like that. Also photographing children might be a bit of a problem but rarely it will lead to prosecution (it will lead to a lot of police questioning thought).
The biggest problem is a law regarding causing distress to others, bull*hit if you ask me that it might be a thing that can be used against you if you invade someone's personal space to photograph (a la Bruce Golden).

That much I know.
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Old 02-21-2019   #12
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I gave up taking pictures of kids because of paranoid parents, and I never take photos of people in public (!) without asking them first. Not worth the trouble having people shout at me and calling the police. Sometimes even store owners storm out of their shops and shout at me for taking pictures of store fronts or buildings!

It really is ironic that people put their entire lives on social media and then expect complete privacy in public.
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Old 02-21-2019   #13
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It is also ironic that if you point an iPhone [camera] at them and take a perfectly acceptable picture they do not even notice or care if they notice, but point a normal camera at them, suddenly it is an issue.
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Old 02-21-2019   #14
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It is also ironic that if you point an iPhone [camera] at them and take a perfectly acceptable picture they do not even notice or care if they notice, but point a normal camera at them, suddenly it is an issue.
Just what my wife said. Anyone there couldíve been shooting pix or even filming them but raise a camera and your some kind of weirdo.
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Old 02-21-2019   #15
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It is also ironic that if you point an iPhone [camera] at them and take a perfectly acceptable picture they do not even notice or care if they notice, but point a normal camera at them, suddenly it is an issue.
This is ridiculously true!
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Old 02-21-2019   #16
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...offer to call the police yourself, and ask them if they'd be so kind as to wait until they arrive.

John
This is always my tack if a simple "Leave me the f alone" doesn't suffice.
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Old 02-21-2019   #17
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I'm sort of glad it's not just me having this trouble.
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Old 02-21-2019   #18
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What is the status of street photography in Europe? I know in Spain there are some issues, and I think all over the EU countries there are issues.
Unclear as for what you are allowed to and what you aren't. No global and clear law but many jurisprudentia cases, all different.

Everything which isn't forbidden by law is permitted. Rule #1. Taking photos in public places is fully permitted. Rule #2. Then it all depends in which kind of "public place" you are.

Once the photos are taken, as far as you don't publish them you don't risk anything and people aren't allowed to ask you to give them the film or the memory card or whatever dumb like this. Rule #2.

But - this doesn't refrain people from insulting, threatening or assaulting you. In most situations, assaulted photographers don't receive any help from other people passing by. Problem #1.

Taking candids with anonymous people on them and then getting assaulted in public places is not fun and will leave a bitter taste behind. Problem #2. Happened to me a few times. Not so often, probably because I don't look like the usual suspect but rather like an inoffensive intellectual character wearing glasses. But it happened to me nonetheless.

I would say that it doesn't really happen more often now in 2019 than in the early 1980s. It all really depends on who surrounds you. Paranoid people existed before the Internet and the social networks already.

How to react all depends on who are the people in front of you and on what they want to. Sometimes it can be useful to discuss the matter because it will calm them down - but this is very rare. Most of the time, not. Best is to take your belongings and to move elsewhere without saying the least bit of word to those people, who are stupid and ignorant - best case. Worst case, they will look for a good fight. Be careful. Advice #1.

All in all, tons of different cases with tons of different kinds and levels of stupidity to deal with. Not worth any risk related to your own life. People who think that you are not allowed to take pictures because of this or that won't change their mind even if you try to explain them what photography is and how it belongs to a common culture of the honest people, and what the law allows you to. They don't know who HCB was. Don't try to teach them.

Don't speak, move along and think of something else. Those people aren't your friends and never will. Advice #2.
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Old 02-21-2019   #19
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This is becoming more common these days. I've had a couple of run-ins myself.

One recent confrontation was with an irate woman who got in my face, threatening to call the police, because "it's illegal to take pictures of people without their permission". Normally I would have tried to ignore her but she kept getting in my face, demanding to know my name and address and where I parked my car so she could get my license plate. So I told her to go ahead and call the police and stop harassing me. She actually did call them but was not happy when the police told her I was correct and she was in the wrong. After she walked away in a huff, I spoke to the two responding officers for a short while and we were all in agreement that there is too much paranoia these days.

By the way, I was not taking pictures of the crazy lady. Or any other human being.
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Old 02-21-2019   #20
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Turn it back on them. If they are creating a scene, tell them you would be happy to call the police so they can be arrested for disturbing the peace, which is an actual crime. Put it back on them. Self preservation is one of the strongest motivators in my experience.
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Old 02-21-2019   #21
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Only rarely have I been confronted in person, but that's probably because I don't do "people" shots. Instead, I get the random passers-by who like to call me in to the cops as a "suspicious man with a camera or some sort of weapon" (seriously!).
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Old 02-21-2019   #22
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The law in the USA: THERE IS NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY ON A PUBLIC SPACE. COMMERCIAL PHOTOGRAPHY IS DIFFERENT. IF THE IMAGE IS FOR PROFIT THEN YOU NEED EITHER A PERMIT OR A WAIVER. NEWS EVENTS, I.E. PARADES, PUBLIC ADDRESSES NO PERMIT OR WAIVER NEEDED.
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Old 02-21-2019   #23
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I find that when I use a Rolleiflex people come up to me and ask for their photo to be taken.
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Old 02-21-2019   #24
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I find that when I use a Rolleiflex people come up to me and ask for their photo to be taken.
this

had several people linger expectantly in front of an idle view camera on tripod while I waited to photograph a (empty) walkway the other week...

also: dashcams
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Old 02-21-2019   #25
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Itís sad the amount of fear and paranoia thatís around in the affluent west.
Unfortunately it seems to allow powerful people to manipulate that fear for their advantage.

Several years ago I was traveling in the Indian state of Goa and stopped to take a photo. The subject was a house whose front yard was being used to store a large watermelon harvest. Was just focusing on the huge pile of fruit when a woman in the yard yelled for me to stop. This caught me by surprise, then she said, ďWait for the children to get in the picture ď! I waited and got a more meaningful photo, her and the three children beside the pile of melons.

What a contrast to irrational camera fear.

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Old 02-21-2019   #26
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Sorry to hear you had to put up with this, kuvvy. Paranoia and its cousin profiling can be unpleasant. There are probably two issues here, mistaken concepts about privacy, and gender. If you'd been a young woman, or any woman, with a camera it's unlikely anyone would have paid attention, least of all the young women in the cafe.
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Old 02-22-2019   #27
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Turn it back on them. If they are creating a scene, tell them you would be happy to call the police so they can be arrested for disturbing the peace, which is an actual crime. Put it back on them. Self preservation is one of the strongest motivators in my experience.
“What are you doing?”

“Calling the police, I can’t have you harassing me while I’m trying to work, can you just wait here till they arrive please? What’s your name?”

Problem has always decided that there is something more pressing deserving their time.

Of course, if the military is involved there is no chance that the photographer gets off without a long interrogation. Mere law is not of any concern to them.
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Old 02-22-2019   #28
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Hey Paul sorry to hear about the situation you found yourself in mate, rest assured you did no wrong my friend, makes you wonder what HCB would have thought regarding the current social climate
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Old 02-22-2019   #29
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makes you wonder what HCB would have thought regarding the current social climate
Of one thing I am certain, you wouldn't find HCB in a Costa!
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Old 02-22-2019   #30
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If one wants privacy, stay at home.....with the shades drawn.....and make sure that camera in your monitor if it has one isn't on....LOL...
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Old 02-22-2019   #31
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Just got hassled today, right around the corner from my house. With a Rollei. I made a picture of a snow covered car in a driveway from the side of the road. Guy pulled up and immediately started yelling. "Get off my property - get away from my car - you can't take a picture of my car" etc. etc. When he got out and started towards me I asked if he wanted me to call the police. He said yes. Wouldn't give me his name while I was on the phone. He stood there in the cold for about ten minutes then went inside. His wife came out, she and I always say hi when passing. She apologized for him, said she told him that he's seen me taking pictures all the time. He's a prison guard, so a stressful job (apparently also isn't used to dealing with people who have rights). Took about twenty minutes for the cop to show up. I explained my situation, he had me wait behind the cruiser while he chatted with the guy. Came back and told me to have a good day. Explained the prison guard thing again, how they are always worried that someone is stalking them, plotting something with pictures. Jesus. With a Rollei, right.
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Old 02-22-2019   #32
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Again, if you are standing on a public space you can photography anything as long as it is not for commercial use. (Consider, or example, the Mall in Washington, DC: How is it possible to photograph a National Monument without having other tourists in the photo?) If you are standing on private property that you are allowed to be on (i.e. your own lawn) you can photography anything that passes. As far as photographing in restaurants I have not found one that will NOT allow it.
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Old 02-22-2019   #33
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I’m well aware of the rules of the game. But there is no explaining to some riled up prison guards.
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Old 02-22-2019   #34
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No idea what Costa is. What is this?
Where I'm it is allowed to take pictures in public places and events.
If it is not public, then different rules applies.
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Old 02-22-2019   #35
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No idea what Costa is. What is this?
Where I'm it is allowed to take pictures in public places and events.
If it is not public, then different rules applies.
I think it is like a UK Starbucks.
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Old 02-22-2019   #36
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No idea what Costa is. What is this?
Glad I wasn't the only one.. hehe
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Old 02-22-2019   #37
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I think it is like a UK Starbucks.
Well, it is private business, territory. Customers have full rights to complain.


Taken at Timmies. Local version of Costa.

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Old 02-22-2019   #38
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It is also ironic that if you point an iPhone [camera] at them and take a perfectly acceptable picture they do not even notice or care if they notice, but point a normal camera at them, suddenly it is an issue.

Your "normal" camera is not the norm anymore. It's 2019.
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Old 02-22-2019   #39
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Your "normal" camera is not the norm anymore. It's 2019.
I wonder what would happen if I set up a 8x10 view camera, heavy tripod and black cloth and all in a public place for wet-plate photography?

Would these overly paranoid complainers who see a threat when they spot any male with camera get on their high horse and instantly accuse him of being a pervert or a terrorist or both for just doing any form of photography. ( maybe if we were born with the XX chromosome we would surely be left alone to go about our hobby unhindered)

I mean a 20 second exposure for the collodion plate in good daylight is going to blur even slow moving subjects anyways.
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Old 02-23-2019   #40
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In many places a tripod on a public way requires a permit.
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