Picking a 50 for M2
Old 11-30-2018   #1
johnrt
Registered User
 
johnrt is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 20
Picking a 50 for M2

Hello, a sometime lurker & first time poster here.

I’ve had a lovely M2 for almost a year now and have been loving it with a Voiglander 35mm colour skopar, but I would also like a 50mm.

So the age old question, which one to pick? I mainly do outdoors available light photography, landscapes, buildings abstracts in b&w only. I’ve narrowed the choices to;

A new Zeiss Planar (very good value with £70 cash back currently) and available in silver!
A used Elmar-M collapsible available for around £600+ at the moment.
A used v3 Summicron which go for about £800+

What would you pick and why? I just can’t decide!

John
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #2
slantface
Jordan Dickinson
 
slantface is offline
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 37
Posts: 610
I've owned all 3, and I'd probably go with the Zeiss Planar, followed by the Leica 50mm Summicron Ver.3. Both are going to be really good on your M2, with the Planar being a more modern and technically clean lens compared to a more vintage era Leica lens. Most of my "research" is done on Flickr, and I just try to find images using the lens I'm thinking of buying, on film I shoot regularly. That way I can compare tons of images in practical daily use by regular film photographers around the world. After looking at a bunch of images this way, you can really see the real world results you can expect, compared to shooting a chart or looking at graphs. Researching this way has really helped me either eliminate or confirm purchases before buying. I just did this with a Voigtlander 21mm f4 Color Skopar, and I'm very happy with my purchase.

With that said, if you like the collapsible nature of the Leica Elmar-M, it's a really really sharp lens, so you really can't go wrong there. I'd just caution that if you haven't used a collapsible before, they are by no means bad, but just weird in use having to extend/collapse it all the time. I'd recommend trying out a collapsible Elmar-M before buying if you have the opportunity. The other 2 (Planar/Summicron) are pretty similar in ergonomics with the Planar having a small focusing nub, and I believe the ver.3 50mm Summicrons have no focusing tab (or at least mine doesn't).

With that said, I'm a huge fan of coupling Leica lenses to Leica bodies...
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #3
santino
eXpect me
 
santino's Avatar
 
santino is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Autriche
Posts: 1,034
I second the Planar.
__________________
Vivent les télémétriques ! -
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #4
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,040
Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5 LTM. Best of all. Perfect for the M2, optically, mechanically, ergonomically and esthetically. A brass lens available in beautiful black paint or chrome of the highest quality.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #5
johnrt
Registered User
 
johnrt is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 20
Thank you both for the comments.

I’ve never used a collapsible before & im not really concerned about the camera & lens needing to be really compact.

I think you pretty much summed up my thought process, the new clean Zeiss is a great choice, but ooohh! classic Leica Summicron lens on an M2! But is it worth a risk as I’d likely need to mail order and won’t get to see it before I buy?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #6
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,347
I've a Planar 50mm f/2 and like it but the filter size is odd, 43mm. It doesn't bother me much as I don't like filters but you might think differently. Also its lens hood is sold as an optional extra; well, mine was and I had to do a bit of haggling to get it. I have fitted a bright red lens cap to it and locked the CZ one in the safe, btw...

OTOH, it's a very nice lens. Here's KR article:- https://kenrockwell.com/zeiss/zm/50mm-f2.htm

Regards, David

PS The Elmar-M goes nicely with the M2 if you like getting the "correct" outfit together.

Last edited by David Hughes : 12-01-2018 at 11:13. Reason: Grocers' or grocer's apostraphe...
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #7
johnrt
Registered User
 
johnrt is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 20
I had noted the “odd” filter size and often use a yellow 39mm filter on my 35mm skopar. Is it possible to use a step down ring on the Planar without vignette?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #8
Yokosuka_Mike
The Beat Goes On
 
Yokosuka_Mike's Avatar
 
Yokosuka_Mike is offline
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
Age: 64
Posts: 1,867
If you want a fantastic 50mm with the charm of having a really odd filter size (27mm) look no further than the "Voigtlander 50mm f3.5 Heliar Vintage Line VM lens".

By-the-way. it comes with a very nice hood too!

Mike
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #9
helenhill
Chasing Shadows ... Light
 
helenhill's Avatar
 
helenhill is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 5,483
You can't really go wrong with any of your Choices... ALL Stellar
really most 50's for that matter.

It really get down to what feels good in the hand and most importantly which rendering suits your Style...
__________________
Flickr.

________________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #10
colker
-
 
colker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: rio de janeiro
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5 LTM. Best of all. Perfect for the M2, optically, mechanically, ergonomically and esthetically. A brass lens available in beautiful black paint or chrome of the highest quality.

Erik.
I looked around for that lens and could not find it. Isn´t it discontinued?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #11
helenhill
Chasing Shadows ... Light
 
helenhill's Avatar
 
helenhill is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 5,483
Recently I have fallen in Love with the 50 Color Skopar and the 50C Sonnar... two fifties that make me very Happy


Below 50 C Sonnar



the Jane Hotel Cafe
by Helen Hill, on Flickr




Ray
by Helen Hill, on Flickr
__________________
Flickr.

________________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #12
colker
-
 
colker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: rio de janeiro
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
Recently I have fallen in Love with
the 50C Sonnar ... did a Trade with a fellow Rff friend ‘rfl-oregon’ Thank You Robert !

50 C Sonnar

the Jane Hotel Cafe by Helen Hill, on Flickr

That will be my pick.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #13
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by colker View Post
I looked around for that lens and could not find it. Isn´t it discontinued?
Yes, it is, but on eBay Japan you can find many mint examples for a moderate price.

Another advantage of this lens is that you can use it on LTM Leica's too, but for use on an M you'll need an adapter.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #14
bhop73
Registered User
 
bhop73's Avatar
 
bhop73 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 704
I use a Canon 50 1.4 and a Summicron V3. (on my M2 and M6) I like both for various reasons, but i've been using the Summicron more lately because I only recently got it.

summicron + M2 + new Ektachrome


canon + M6 + Tri-X
Gazing by Brandon, on Flickr
__________________
my flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #15
Ronald M
Registered User
 
Ronald M is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,486
Elmar M is a lovely lens, both of mine. My Version 3 1969 Summicron is ok. Rigid or DR are nice 28 to 11. I have all of these, but never owned a Planar. Many have developed a focus wobble and are very expensive to repair.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #16
Richard G
Registered User
 
Richard G's Avatar
 
Richard G is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 37,47 S
Posts: 5,074
All three are great, and all the others mentioned here. The Elmar M is special. It is heavy in chrome. I do favour compact over a lot of other parameters as I like a camera with me most of the time. An M2 can be hand held slow: that means the f2.8 or f3.5 is fine, but the f1.5 C Sonnar is amazing and not much bigger than the Planar and smaller than a Summilux.
__________________
Richard
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2018   #17
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,106
IMO.

ZM lens... I had it for few weeks. I'm not surprised if they are sold under good deal.
Mine was good deal before I purchased and by the time I was selling it. .

Elmar-M is modern Leica lens. It has plenty of rendering comparing to Planar.
But with filter and hood it is too long lens and slow. And it didn't feel robust enough.

v3 I have at this moment. It is great lens if you like to focus sloooooooow.
I have tried all classic 50 Crons by now and the only one I would consider on M2 is collapsible, v1.

I also have rare Canon 50 1.8 (not fogged one version) and regular Jupiter-3 (they are aging well comparing to Leitz glass). To be honest, I see nothing wrong with these lenses on BW film and prints.

IMHO.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #18
johnrt
Registered User
 
johnrt is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 20
I’m as confused as ever!

The Planar & Summicron look like they render a very similar image to my very amateur and untrained eye. The Elmar looks quite different, more modern like my 35mm colour skopar.

The 50mm skopar is one that I know very little about.

I think the problem here is I might need all 4!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #19
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,040
The Elmar-M is a four element lens. One of the elements is made from glass with a high refractive index wich is useful for extra correction. But it still is a lens made from only four elements. It is sharp, but that's it. There is no typical "rendering". The lack of rendering is it's character. Therefore I stopped using the lens.

The Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5 is made from seven elements. If you want to know what "rendering" means, try this lens.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #20
colker
-
 
colker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: rio de janeiro
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrt View Post
I’m as confused as ever!

The Planar & Summicron look like they render a very similar image to my very amateur and untrained eye. The Elmar looks quite different, more modern like my 35mm colour skopar.

The 50mm skopar is one that I know very little about.

I think the problem here is I might need all 4!!
Summicron is a better lens than the ZM Planar. Better build, less distortion and closer to 50mm. Planars are about 45mm. Summicron rendition is different as well. Planars flare less.

WE are talking subtleties here.

Buy a lens you can afford and shoot. Then, when you have more money in your pocket, buy another. Then another. Then sell some... and buy another. That´s the game. Meanwhile you take some great pics and picture greatness has nothing to do w/ lens quality.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #21
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 45
Posts: 19,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
You can't really go wrong with any of your Choices... ALL Stellar
really most 50's for that matter.

It really get down to what feels good in the hand ....
Agree completely...
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #22
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrt View Post
I’m as confused as ever!

The Planar & Summicron look like they render a very similar image to my very amateur and untrained eye. The Elmar looks quite different, more modern like my 35mm colour skopar.

The 50mm skopar is one that I know very little about.

I think the problem here is I might need all 4!!
Get 50 2.5 Skopar, it is most marvelous 50 lens ever made. And just neutral in rendering. If f2.5 is OK.

To be honest V3, V4 Crons "renders" just as Planar. No signature in the image. And Rigid is about the same. If you want rendering, it is f1.5, f1.4 lenses (doesn't need to be wide open) and Cron Collapsible and before it, Leitz LTM lenses.

Starting from Rigid all Crons are well corrected. Except flaring veil with v4.
And corrected means neutral, looks the same.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #23
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,347
Hi,

I worry about people chosing lenses from posts on the internet. As I see it the negative is the original, the print is second-hand, the scan is third-hand, the post on a website is forth-hand, the link to RFF is fifth-hand and then your monitor makes it sixth-hand.

Just my 2d worth.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #24
helenhill
Chasing Shadows ... Light
 
helenhill's Avatar
 
helenhill is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 5,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hi,

I worry about people chosing lenses from posts on the internet. As I see it the negative is the original, the print is second-hand, the scan is third-hand, the post on a website is forth-hand, the link to RFF is fifth-hand and then your monitor makes it sixth-hand.

Just my 2d worth.

Regards, David
arghhh David, so Bloody serious

Is it not in good fun ... plus I think if You look here or go to flickriver and look at a few hundred photos of a 'specific' lens
One gets a feel of the lens ...the way it renders
even under such diverse conditions / digital sensors, film -developer combos
It's all in the Eye and what it perceives

Bedt~ H
__________________
Flickr.

________________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #25
Richard G
Registered User
 
Richard G's Avatar
 
Richard G is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 37,47 S
Posts: 5,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Get 50 2.5 Skopar, it is most marvelous 50 lens ever made. And just neutral in rendering. If f2.5 is OK.

To be honest V3, V4 Crons "renders" just as Planar. No signature in the image. And Rigid is about the same. If you want rendering, it is f1.5, f1.4 lenses (doesn't need to be wide open) and Cron Collapsible and before it, Leitz LTM lenses.

Starting from Rigid all Crons are well corrected. Except flaring veil with v4.
And corrected means neutral, looks the same.
I think there is some deep truth here, unsurprisingly. Including the bit about not necessarily wide open: my C Sonnar at f5.6 is still magic.
__________________
Richard
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #26
Shab
Registered User
 
Shab's Avatar
 
Shab is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Basque Country
Posts: 529
I'm in the same situation, I'm thinking on getting a 50mm for my M5. But I had some 50mm in the past for using in the ZI that I had:

50mm C Sonnar 1.5:








50mm 2.0 Planar:






So... I think these are really good lenses. But they are different. And they feel different in my hand.

First I had the Sonnar and it was a joy to use it, but there was the focus shift problem... then I bought the Planar and all the pictures were OK. But there was the difference, sometimes with the Sonnar I got WOW!! from a picture...

One of the 50mm I'm looking for is the Voigtlander 50mm 1.5 VM Nokton... Nobody talks about it, but BLRCAT has great pictures with it...
__________________
My web
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #27
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
arghhh David, so Bloody serious ...

Is it not in good fun ... plus I think if You look here or go to flickriver and look at a few hundred photos of a 'specific' lens
One gets a feel of the lens ...the way it renders
even under such diverse conditions / digital sensors, film -developer combos
It's all in the Eye and what it perceives

Bedt~ H
? bisethylenedithiotetrathiafulvalene ?

Well, it's serious money they are thinking of spending. And it was only tu'pence worth of seriousness.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #28
aizan
Registered User
 
aizan's Avatar
 
aizan is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Age: 37
Posts: 4,543
i recently sold my 35mm cron asph to get back to 50mm. my shopping notes basically went like this:

- 50mm collapsible and rigid for less contrast and decent bokeh (it’s harsher from the DR to the pre-asph, and i’m not rich enough for the apo-asph), but not very flare resistant
- 50mm zeiss planar for high contrast, good flare resistance, and decent bokeh, or the c-sonnar for better bokeh. silver chrome matches pretty well.
- 50mm voigtlander color-skopar for pretty nice bokeh, but with pincushion. looks really cool, but focusing tab on the silver version has soft paint. (turns out the aperture ring is quite wiggly, on mine at least.)
- 50mm f/2.5 leica summarit-m for high contrast and nice bokeh, but slightly thin focusing tab. get the f/2.4 for the standard focusing tab, but silver anodizing doesn’t quite match silver chrome. f/2.4 has a spiffy hood!
- 50mm f/1.5 voigtlander nokton for high contrast, decent bokeh, but no focusing tab or satin silver finish
- 50mm f/2 konica m-hexanon for nice bokeh, nicest aperture ring, but only comes in black

i ended up getting the planar and the color-skopar to try out.
__________________
Ugly Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #29
colker
-
 
colker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: rio de janeiro
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
i recently sold my 35mm cron asph to get back to 50mm. my shopping notes basically went like this:

- 50mm collapsible and rigid for less contrast and decent bokeh (it’s harsher from the DR to the pre-asph, and i’m not rich enough for the apo-asph), but not very flare resistant
- 50mm zeiss planar for high contrast, good flare resistance, and decent bokeh, or the c-sonnar for better bokeh. silver chrome matches pretty well.
- 50mm voigtlander color-skopar for pretty nice bokeh, but with pincushion. looks really cool, but focusing tab on the silver version has soft paint. (turns out the aperture ring is quite wiggly, on mine at least.)
- 50mm f/2.5 leica summarit-m for high contrast and nice bokeh, but slightly thin focusing tab. get the f/2.4 for the standard focusing tab, but silver anodizing doesn’t quite match silver chrome. f/2.4 has a spiffy hood!
- 50mm f/1.5 voigtlander nokton for high contrast, decent bokeh, but no focusing tab or satin silver finish
- 50mm f/2 konica m-hexanon for nice bokeh, nicest aperture ring, but only comes in black

i ended up getting the planar and the color-skopar to try out.
I want the color skopar for the ergonomics.. i just wish it had no distortion... or maybe pick the heliar but wish it 2 more stops.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #30
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by colker View Post
I want the color skopar for the ergonomics.. i just wish it had no distortion
Here you see the distortion of the Color Skopar. Just look at the lowest step of the stairs.

Leica M2, Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5, 400-2TMY.

Erik.

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #31
colker
-
 
colker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: rio de janeiro
Posts: 763
The Heliar at 3.5 has no distortion, i believe... but i want the focus tab.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #32
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 78
Posts: 5,896
I like the Planar, with its "focusing bump." And I like the collapsible Summicron on my M2. The f/2.8 Elmar goes nicely on the M2 as well, except that it rotates during focusing; the Summicron doesn't. Both the Elmar and the Summicron have a focusing tab--well, it's not exactly a tab, more of a button--but is easy to use.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2018   #33
johnrt
Registered User
 
johnrt is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 20
Well thank you all for the suggestions and examples, you all care very passionatley about your choices of 50's!

I have to stay I'm still undecided but there is a dual range Summicron on ebay (with no goggles) for under £700 that is looking very tempting.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2018   #34
d_c
Registered User
 
d_c is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 124
I really like the v.4 Summicron with focussing tab - it's really lightweight and compact without a hood fitted, and the tab makes it a nice quick lens to use.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2018   #35
ACullen
Registered User
 
ACullen is offline
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 155
I added the ZM 50 Planar to my M2 about 18 months ago. No regrets. I wanted a modern 50 to compliment my Nikkor 5cm 1.4 and Topcor 5cm f2. Each has its place. The Plnar is faultless at all apertures. Same filters as my Biogon 35mm and CV40 1.4
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2018   #36
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,322
On a film M2, I would chose a period 50/2 Rigid. Fantastic rendering. On a more modern (digital) camera, I would chose a Zeiss or a modern Leica lens (budget permitting).
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2018   #37
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrt View Post
... there is a dual range Summicron on ebay (with no goggles) for under £700 that is looking very tempting.
I'd go with that one!
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 18:28.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.