Leica M2
Old 09-20-2018   #1
xasthur
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Leica M2

I'm currently in the market of getting a M2 as the title states. I currently have a Leica IIIa with the Summar 5cm f2 and a Elmar 3.5cm f3.5.

Now I'm pretty sure the 50cm Summar lens will work with the adapter but what about the Elmar 3.5cm lens?
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Old 09-20-2018   #2
Steve M.
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I wouldn't think there's a problem at all. You have two of my favorite 35mm lenses, especially the Summar.
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Old 09-20-2018   #3
xasthur
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Thanks for the reply, I'm just curious about the 35mm if it needs it's own adapter somehow or just a general adapter will work. I going off of the Ken site where he links the one below. It only says 50mm and 75mm.

I prefer my Elmar because it's more clear. The Summar is really really hazy.

https://www.adorama.com/fdl39lm5075p.html

Upon searching a little more I saw this one as well which confused me.

https://www.adorama.com/mbl39m35135.html
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Old 09-20-2018   #4
Deardorff38
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Using the proper adapter will bring up the appropriate framelines for each lens. The M2 with a 35mm is a magic combination.
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Old 09-20-2018   #5
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You can buy adapters from Stephen at Cameraquest - link to his site on RFF's front page
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Old 09-20-2018   #6
Peter Jennings
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An authentic Leitz adapter is the best choice, but they can be pricey. Stay away from generic Chinese ones you find on eBay as they can be extremely hit or miss. The ones from B&H or Adorama are probably reliable, but I personally haven't tried them.

And yes, it has to say 35 or 3.5cm on it to bring up the proper frame lines.
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Old 09-20-2018   #7
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I have a Chinese ltm-M adapter that works perfectly on my M3.
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Old 09-20-2018   #8
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The Chinese adapters are a bit hit and miss but are so much cheaper they are still worth buying, I use one on my canon 50mm 1.2 and it works perfectly even with the lens wide open.
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Old 09-20-2018   #9
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you will need a long notch adapter for the 35/3.5 Elmar (if you want to use the entire focusing range of the lens)



note the long cutout (notch) along the bottom.
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Old 09-20-2018   #10
Erik van Straten
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I have black Rayqual adapters on my black paint LTM Color Skopar 50mm and Ultron 35mm lenses. It is a pity that these are discontinued, both the lenses and the adapters.


Erik.


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Old 09-21-2018   #11
Richard G
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Ive used the 35 3.5 Summaron with the above adapter on my M2 and can't see how there could be a problem with the Elmar. You must have the correct adapter to enjoy the glorious M2 35mm frame lines, one of the best things you will see through any camera viewfinder.
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Old 09-21-2018   #12
bayernfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
Ive used the 35 3.5 Summaron with the above adapter on my M2 and can't see how there could be a problem with the Elmar. You must have the correct adapter to enjoy the glorious M2 35mm frame lines, one of the best things you will see through any camera viewfinder.
the elmar's focusing arm lays very flat, near the base of the lens. as you approach infinity, the pin on the backside of the infinity lock actually protrudes into the area where the removed adapter material would be.

trust me, i speak from personal experience. haven't you ever wondered by that long notch/cut-out exists?

https://d1ro734fq21xhf.cloudfront.ne...-201551584.jpg
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Old 09-21-2018   #13
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This is a 35mm 3.5 Summaron with and a Leica adapter. The cut outs make a difference when using lenses with infinity locks:
[IMG]L1030937 by Michael DeLuca, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 09-21-2018   #14
xasthur
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Thank you everyone for the Info and pictures. I can see that for the 35mm Elmar I will need the adapter with the cutout. Does anyone have the exact name for that specific adapter with the longer cutout?
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Old 09-21-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xasthur View Post
Thank you everyone for the Info and pictures. I can see that for the 35mm Elmar I will need the adapter with the cutout. Does anyone have the exact name for that specific adapter with the longer cutout?
It's a "Type 1" adapter:
https://www.cameraquest.com/adaptltm.htm

FotodioX makes one, but just make sure to order the non-pro version:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...9_lens_to.html

The Pro version is perfectly round with no cut-out for the infinity lock and lever:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...9_lens_to.html
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Old 09-21-2018   #16
Richard G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayernfan View Post
the elmar's focusing arm lays very flat, near the base of the lens. as you approach infinity, the pin on the backside of the infinity lock actually protrudes into the area where the removed adapter material would be.

trust me, i speak from personal experience. haven't you ever wondered by that long notch/cut-out exists?

https://d1ro734fq21xhf.cloudfront.ne...-201551584.jpg
So are you saying the Elmar doesnít work with he OEM adapter pictured above? Of course thereís a reason for the cut out. Canít quite see your point.
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Old 09-21-2018   #17
xasthur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dourbalistar View Post
It's a "Type 1" adapter:
https://www.cameraquest.com/adaptltm.htm

FotodioX makes one, but just make sure to order the non-pro version:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...9_lens_to.html

The Pro version is perfectly round with no cut-out for the infinity lock and lever:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...9_lens_to.html
Thank you so much, I really appreciate the help!
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Old 09-21-2018   #18
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I also use the Fotodiox brand, both 50 & 35, they work perfectly and cost about $26 including ship.
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Old 09-21-2018   #19
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I also back the fotodiox. I've got a canon 50 with an infinity lock (I'm assuming it would require the same specs as with a Leica lens with infinity lock) and it works just like it should. I couldn't find a bad review about the fotodiox, on the other hand you can find tons of poor reviews about the cheapies, but you probably already know this by now.
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Old 09-21-2018   #20
Deardorff38
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the clearance is different. I have an Elmar 35 3.5 & it jams on the fotodiox adapter when you're getting close to infinity. I think a little work with a dremel tool & a burr bit... But i just use the Elmar 35 on my LTM
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Old 09-22-2018   #21
David Hughes
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FWIW, I own and use a range of Leicas from the oldest (a 1926 one) to a fairly modern digital (the M9) and have dozens of bodies and lenses. After reading this thread I think a little clearing up is needed.

The OP is asking about using two lenses from the 1930's on the M2 but hasn't bought the M2 yet; not that it matters as the differences between the M2 versions are all on the left hand side of the front of the camera.

The first point to make is that there are dozens of different adapters and they vary a bit but all do the same thing. Meaning that the screw threaded lens screws into the front and the lens then has the correct bayonet fitting for the M2 and brings up the correct frame-lines. And that is all there is to it because the original question was about two pre-war lenses on the M2.

So two adapters are needed, one to bring up the 35mm frame and the other to bring up the 50mm frame in the viewfinder.

It's best to know a little more before you buy; the adapters have two notches on the lens flange; one on the flat of the flange and at the back of it to engage with the lens release button's catch and the other cut into the side of the flange and often coloured red to line up the adapter with the camera when putting the lens on the body.

You should also know that many people adapt the adapters with a file and so you can buy them labelled wrongly. Given the prices charged for genuine & fake old Leica adapters that is disgraceful.

In use you also need an elderly Leica made rear lens cap; the black plastic ones with the grey plastic inserts*. They have three lugs on them that fit the adapters and act like a peg spanner and make removing the adapter very easy. (Alternatively buy a swear box and some sticky plasters as the adapters can be painful to remove and sharp; a thick leather glove is also useful.)

BTW, my 3,5cm f/3,5 Elmar uses cheap old anonymous adapters and likes them and the same goes for the Summar. But, a big but btw, I bought them from a dealer I knew and so they were OK.

I don't think you should worry about the infinity lock on these two lenses and the M2.

I'll try and find the time to take a few pictures and put them on my smugmug site sometime.

Regards, David


* The grey plastic often get damaged by the bayonet and so check carefully. Good ones take the bayonet and it turns and stops; failures turn forever and the cap can fall off. Either work OK as a peg spanner.
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Old 09-22-2018   #22
Erik van Straten
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Maybe it is useful to know that the earlier Elmar 35mm f/3.5, the so called 11-o-clock one (the focus lever points on infinity left top), can not be used on the M2: the focusing lever will be obstructed by the lens release button, even when mounted in an adapter.

This is of course also true for the earliest model of the Elmar 35mm f/3.5, the model with no focusing curve at all.

Erik.
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Old 09-22-2018   #23
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I use both Leitz and Voigtlander adapters without problems. I tried the cheap Chinese ones. They were no good, and when I asked to return them, the seller refunded my money without asking that they be returned: They weren't worth the price of the return shipping to him! So that ought to tell you something . . .
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Old 09-22-2018   #24
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
I use both Leitz and Voigtlander adapters without problems. I tried the cheap Chinese ones. They were no good, and when I asked to return them, the seller refunded my money without asking that they be returned: They weren't worth the price of the return shipping to him! So that ought to tell you something . . .
But the Rayqual adapters are great, above all the black ones.

Erik.
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Old 09-22-2018   #25
David Hughes
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Hi,

I think it depends on who in China made the adapters; there are a lot of people in China, when all's said and done...

I am very pleased with mine and think that the dealer here checked them and then put in a decent sized order.

Regards, David
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Old 09-22-2018   #26
Robert Lai
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Leitz and Voigtlander adapters are the ones that are always on spec.
I tried a fotodiox adapter once. Such a crude tight fit that I was afraid that it would never come off my M7. The machining was clearly out of spec.

The Russian adapters that come with the Lomography lenses are also quite good. They don't have such a nice finish as the Leica or Voigtlander adapters though.
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Old 09-22-2018   #27
xasthur
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Since there are different versions of the lenses here are a few pictures of mine. The Summar doesn't have a coating while the Elmar appears to have a coating based off the blue tint I see. I thought it was years later when they started coating lenses if both of these are in fact pre-war.






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Old 09-23-2018   #28
David Hughes
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Hi,


For a while after the war you could get lenses coated. If yours is number 099919 then it look like the late 1920's (sort of 1927-ish).

It should have a "0" stampted on it by the little screw by the infinity lock release button. That would mean it was standardised for any Leica to use rather than the one it came with originally. And that suggests it went back to Leica for the coating and standardisation.

The lens and bodies were standardised from 1931 onwards but a lot of people like to play mix and match with Leicas and the war meant many were cannibalised and remade from damaged ones. Then there's auction sites and wicked dealers. You get some oddities turning up from time to time and the war is a great get out of a corner card to play...

Regards, David
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Old 09-23-2018   #29
Erik van Straten
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You could better have the Summar coated. In fact Leitz found after the war in their warehouses many new Summars that were uncoated. They decided to coat them and to sell hem. Therefore many coated Summars exist that look very new. They are great lenses.

The Elmar 35mm f/3.5 is uncoated very good if the glass is clean and unscratched. Coated and clean they are great too, of course. A hugely underestimated lens.

Erik.
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Old 09-23-2018   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
You could better have the Summar coated. In fact Leitz found after the war in their warehouses many new Summars that were uncoated. They decided to coat them and to sell hem. Therefore many coated Summars exist that look very new. They are great lenses.

The Elmar 35mm f/3.5 is uncoated very good if the glass is clean and unscratched. Coated and clean they are great too, of course. A hugely underestimated lens.

Erik.
Funny, last night I was reading a piece by Dick Gilcreast in LHSA Viewfinder V30,Num4 titled "Legendary Lenses for the Leica: The 35mm f/3.5 Elmar".

Are we allowed to post these articles? Some of them are hugely informative and fascinating.
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Old 09-23-2018   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
You could better have the Summar coated. In fact Leitz found after the war in their warehouses many new Summars that were uncoated. They decided to coat them and to sell hem. Therefore many coated Summars exist that look very new. They are great lenses.

The Elmar 35mm f/3.5 is uncoated very good if the glass is clean and unscratched. Coated and clean they are great too, of course. A hugely underestimated lens.

Erik.
Dear Erik,

Underestimated, perhaps.

Hugely underestimated, arguably not so much.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 09-23-2018   #32
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
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Underestimated, perhaps.

Hugely underestimated, arguably not so much.
Hmm. Roger, look in the corners. Compare with a Summaron 35mm f/2.8.

Leica M2, Elmar 35mm f/3.5 nickel uncoated, 400-2TMY, Adox MCC 110.

Erik.

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Old 09-23-2018   #33
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayernfan View Post
Funny, last night I was reading a piece by Dick Gilcreast in LHSA Viewfinder V30,Num4 titled "Legendary Lenses for the Leica: The 35mm f/3.5 Elmar".

Are we allowed to post these articles? Some of them are hugely informative and fascinating.

Yes, please! I'm sure everybody wants to read the LHSA Viewfinder.


Erik.
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Old 09-23-2018   #34
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Yes, please! I'm sure everybody wants to read the LHSA Viewfinder.


Erik.
at the least, i'll scan it in and send to you.
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Old 09-23-2018   #35
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Quote:
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Funny, last night I was reading a piece by Dick Gilcreast in LHSA Viewfinder V30,Num4 titled "Legendary Lenses for the Leica: The 35mm f/3.5 Elmar".
To the LHSA, all Leica lenses are legendary.
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Old 09-24-2018   #36
David Hughes
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Hi,


In post 21 I said I would sort out and take some photo's and have just started. Here as a teaser is one of them:-





It shows the M2 with the pre-war 3,5cm f/3,5 lens fitted and I have used a cheapo Chinese adapter as the brass shows up nicely against the camera and lens.


Regards, David
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Old 09-24-2018   #37
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Beautiful M2 David. I'll have to keep an eye out for a proper adapter with the long notch.
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Old 09-24-2018   #38
Erik van Straten
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Now with this beauty of David, I can't stay behind.


Erik.


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Old 09-24-2018   #39
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Old 09-25-2018   #40
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Leica MP, Elmar 35mm f/3.5 LTM, 400-4TMY, gelatine silver print.


Erik.


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