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View Poll Results: How to spend $3000. Which is your top choice here?
Leica CL (new) 10 5.78%
Leica Q (used) 14 8.09%
Leica M9 plus a lens; Leica M8 plus a lens 30 17.34%
Other cameras 120 69.36%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-07-2018   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
I'm shocked, shocked, by the number of people wasting the money on digital.
I am shocked, shocked by all the people wasting the money on equipment. Will the equipment mentioned really make your images any better?
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Old 01-07-2018   #122
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Raid,
I just looked at FM classified where many Sony’s are listd.
A7rii is now getting down to $1500 second hand.... nearl half introduction price.
42mp would give you a chance to print very large.
I can imagine some of those scenes at the marina you make landscapes printed .
Could be a very satisfying adventure.
Thank you, Andy.
What is FM Classified?

I got it! Fred Miranda .... FM.
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Old 01-07-2018   #123
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I am shocked, shocked by all the people wasting the money on equipment. Will the equipment mentioned really make your images any better?
I don't think that people buying more and more equipment are doing this to make their images "better". Will buying more and more shoes make you walk better? It is the joy of owning equipment that can be admired and used (and resold).
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Old 01-07-2018   #124
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Will buying more and more shoes make you walk better?
Thanks. It's exactly the Imelda Marcos meme I was alluding to.
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Old 01-07-2018   #125
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I picked up a A7rii from usedphotopro in November. I figure I'll be shooting more digital photos over the next year; I don't see myself making time to develop film for a while. The price there was close to used ebay sales at the time and I'd rather have a store backing to deal with returns if something went wrong.

I've been using it with a Nikkor 50/1.4 ltm lens and have really appreciated the results. Its nice to have something compatible with my existing lenses as well as a camera that can go lower iso, has some stabilization for short movies, ability to shoot handheld at isos beyond what I can do with film, etc.

The a6500 would fantastic for anyone who wants the same and can deal with a cropped sensor.
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Old 01-07-2018   #126
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If the OP has any LTM or M lenses then I would say get a used M240.
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Old 01-07-2018   #127
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...
I'm shocked, shocked, by the number of people wasting the money on digital.
Hmm. For me the waste has been all the money I've spent on film cameras in the past several years. I've gotten virtually no value out of them, where my digital cameras work brilliantly and produce lots of fine photographs: they're worth everything I paid for them.

I'm likely going to sell off all the film cameras other than my Polaroids and the Hasselblad SWC in the coming year. There's little point to them taking up space on the shelf.
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Old 01-07-2018   #128
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Godfrey: I will check out how you sell off the SLR equipment. I should do same. Keep my Land camera and the SWC,
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Old 01-07-2018   #129
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I too will watch for Godfrey's sell-off. Two reasons: 1. There's bound to be some nifty stuff. 2. Inspiration for myself.

I have a fair amount of photo kit. At least 300 cameras, nearly all of them film. I don't need them and I've really pared down to just a few film cameras that receive my attention, along with my digital.

If I can resolve to rid myself of some gear, I'd pare my film holdings down to the Leicas, Nikon SLR, a couple TLRs, an MF folder, an MF SLR, a 4x5 field camera, and my 4x5 studio. ....and that's it. Well OK, maybe a stereo camera too. And my amazing condition Agfa box camera. And at least one of the spy cameras. And the cute little Petri Color 35 -- I'll keep just one of those. The rest should really go (but will it?).
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Old 01-07-2018   #130
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Some stuff will not sell at any price, and other stuff will sell for a symbolic return. Hopefully, it is more than the cost for postage!
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Old 01-07-2018   #131
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Everything sells at the right price.
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Old 01-07-2018   #132
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The right price ==> whatever the current market values are. A lens that used to sell for $400 may now sell for $35.
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Old 01-07-2018   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
I am shocked, shocked by all the people wasting the money on equipment. Will the equipment mentioned really make your images any better?
I've seriously over estimated some of the folks here too. I thought most took photography more seriously but I can clearly see it's about what you own not what you produce with it. I'm just the opposite, it's about my images not my image of myself and how much camera gear I can collect in my life. I also find it interesting many of the forum members own more and better equipment than most pros I knew prior to 2000.

Meanwhile I'm buying more Visa and MasterCard stock to make money off these guys. I just funded my Roth and was thinking about some Paypal stock too. Keep buying and selling guys!
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Old 01-07-2018   #134
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It is a well known fact that RFF is a website for rangefinder cameras and lenses and of course on photography. Many threads over the past years have focused on lenses and cameras. This does not mean that such an interest leads to low quality photography. Just relax and try to enjoy whatever you are doing.
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Old 01-07-2018   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
I'm shocked, shocked, by the number of people wasting the money on digital.
How is using any camera to make photographs a waste? If you think digital is waste because it depreciates then I would argue that we don't have to buy film for the camera.
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Old 01-07-2018   #136
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M6 with vintage Summicron 35 or 50. Leftover id find a Hasselblad kit with body and 1 lens
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Old 01-07-2018   #137
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None of the above - Id hire an assistant to sell all the useless (not used) camera and lenses Ive got
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Old 01-08-2018   #138
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Hi,

I'm amazed at what people have projected on to my statement that I was shocked; just because I expected more film choices based on experience and thinking about things like prices, reality etc.

FWIW, I don't regard film as a major expense, compared to (say) a good digital camera, a back-up and the inevitable loss when the digital body dies on me and the lenses then become worthless. Then you have to spend a lot of money for an even weirder camera and learn the contents of a 150 page manual (without an index).

Most of the counter arguments to that statement will be based on hindsight but I've never had hindsight before the event, especially with digital cameras, which makes my life difficult.

Worse still, digital cameras don't seem to last long enough for hindsight to work. By the time we know what works and behaves itself the makers will have moved on; neither new cameras nor parts will be available and so on...

Regards, David

PS (A later edit) and add to that the cost of a dedicated flash gun and the fact that they usually don't work with other digital cameras and so on.
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Old 01-08-2018   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hi,

I'm amazed at what people have projected on to my statement that I was shocked; just because I expected more film choices based on experience and thinking about things like prices, reality etc.

FWIW, I don't regard film as a major expense, compared to (say) a good digital camera, a back-up and the inevitable loss when the digital body dies on me and the lenses then become worthless. Then you have to spend a lot of money for an even weirder camera and learn the contents of a 150 page manual (without an index).

Most of the counter arguments to that statement will be based on hindsight but I've never had hindsight before the event, especially with digital cameras, which makes my life difficult.

Worse still, digital cameras don't seem to last long enough for hindsight to work. By the time we know what works and behaves itself the makers will have moved on; neither new cameras nor parts will be available and so on...

Regards, David

PS (A later edit) and add to that the cost of a dedicated flash gun and the fact that they usually don't work with other digital cameras and so on.
Lenses dont become worthless when a body dies. Even not if the body is a digital one.
For none of my cameras, digital or film, Ive looked to a manual even longer than some seconds. I would instant refuse a device, not only a camera, that demands this.

Digital Cameras can last as long as every other device. If not, the Internet surely has a spare one for less money after short time.
My oldest digital cams are 15 years old now and working fine.
There is no problem to get a spare battery on instant delivery for less than ten dollars today. And a good functional whole device will show up in at most a few days if I should need to replace one.

Dedicated Flash guns and their compatibility and availability are no invention of the digital market, David!
A choice of a system brings dependencies. Nothing new here either since decades

Regards, Axel
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Old 01-08-2018   #140
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Hi,

The crucial word in m y post was "hindsight" as my post is based on bitter experience.

I chose the system as three major makers had backed it with bodies and lenses and then the alternative makers backed it. Now I have three superb to excellent lenses that cost thousands but the bodies for them with the right mount are no longer made. So I have a problem.

Hindsight also tells me that there is limit to how long you can replace digital stuff; I had a very nice small compact digital camera with a very good zoom lens on it; it failed and I replaced it with a secondhand one from a dealer with a year's guarantee.

A short while after the guarantee expired the camera expired. I have replaced it with another one, also secondhand (obviously), but the model that came next and looked similar. Alas, when they replaced it they "improved" it; the result is that I am baffled at times and have to look in the index-less manual.

As for flashes, mine dates from the 80's and works with all my film bodies. It didn't cost hundreds...

There's a sub text to this thread "would you scrap your M2 if I gave you 3 000?" and the answer here is "no" as I'm happy with it.

A more interesting thread would be "if all your cameras were destroyed with the house contents and you had no insurance how little need you spend to start photography again?" Now that would get some interesting answers.

Regards, David

PS And when I'm in your country I still say "Gr Gott" instead of "Hi" so I guess there's no hope for me...
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Old 01-08-2018   #141
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Quote:
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Worse still, digital cameras don't seem to last long enough for hindsight to work. By the time we know what works and behaves itself the makers will have moved on; neither new cameras nor parts will be available and so on...
What is long enough? A lifetime? Plenty of old working digital cameras out there...
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Old 01-08-2018   #142
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I reject the conclusion that digital cameras are inherently fragile and short-lived.

A case can be made battery availability is the most likely cause of end-of-life. A decent Li-ion battery has about 1000 charge cycles. Eventually batteries must be replaced. At some point its will be hard to find batteries for old cameras.

So, a well-cared for film camera will out last a well-cared for digital camera – perhaps by decades.

The total cost of digital camera ownership is eroded by advances in imaging technology. I never replaced a digital camera because of electronic or mechanical failure. I replaced them because I could work more efficiently. Also, the cost to me was reduced by tax deductions and by clients.

Now that I'm not using cameras for work, I don't even think about upgrading.

Capital depreciation is only a cost when you liquidate an asset.
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Old 01-08-2018   #143
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Bitter experience, continued...
Old 01-08-2018   #144
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Bitter experience, continued...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
What is long enough? A lifetime? Plenty of old working digital cameras out there...
Hi,

And plenty of duds that look as good on the outside. The problem is there's no way of telling, apart from hindsight. And I have my doubts about getting them checked and repaired.

And I prefer to work with cameras who's wicked little ways I know/understand. One of the differences between my old and my newer replacement camera is that the menu system is totally different and far more convoluted. I still intend to set it up the way I want it but have wasted a lot of time and swearing in the process. I've 30/31 years experience of digital cameras but it doesn't help me much...

Regards, David

PS And throw into the mix what happened to my lovely printer and software when Windows 8 and 10 came along...
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Old 01-08-2018   #145
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Bitter experience is no way limited or connected to the use of digital equipment.
I also have some - who will not?

Come on David!

Just came into my house from a longer walk in the ice-cold wind through the landscape I love to live in actually (by the way - there is a small couple of folks in the south that uses "Gr Gott" I remember - we use to say "Moin!" here in the north ).

A bit frustrated from the small range of usability of batteries when things turn colder than the living room is. First camera (the big one hanging on the strap on my shoulder) took about half an hour until the "low battery" warning appeared. The small one living in its
bag on my hip survived one hour in the cold...

But - what hindsights are following from such events?
Take the fully manual mechanic cam with film next time?
Not really.

Regards from the north of Germany,

Axel
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Old 01-08-2018   #146
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I would put a down payment on some travel
This is what I would do.
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Old 01-08-2018   #147
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Hi,

And plenty of duds that look as good on the outside. The problem is there's no way of telling, apart from hindsight. And I have my doubts about getting them checked and repaired.

And I prefer to work with cameras who's wicked little ways I know/understand. One of the differences between my old and my newer replacement camera is that the menu system is totally different and far more convoluted. I still intend to set it up the way I want it but have wasted a lot of time and swearing in the process. I've 30/31 years experience of digital cameras but it doesn't help me much...

Regards, David

PS And throw into the mix what happened to my lovely printer and software when Windows 8 and 10 came along...
I understand... I just haven't had the same experience. Its only been 20 years for me, but they've been relatively easy to figure out. BUT we don't all photograph the same things the same way.
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Old 01-08-2018   #148
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Not to change the subject, but back to spending that $3000 USD.....

I've always been enamored by panoramic photos (and hence panoramic cameras).

I'm not able to spend $$ on an Xpan, even though I'd like one; but what neat cameras. Or one of those 6x17 jobs (Fuji?). Widelux intrigue me. I guess in the age of digital there's an easy option for panoramics, but is it as fun?

I suspect I'll someday come across a Horizon/Horizont and give it a whirl. But I'm not actively seeking any photo gear these days (with exception of a Viso III so I can use some stuff I've inherited)
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Old 01-08-2018   #149
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3000, so more like 4000 AUD haha. I would spend 500 on a used CLA'd Olympus Om1, and a cheap set of lenses like the 50 1.4 and 28 3.5. A roll or two of bulk film, and most importantly.... use the remaining 3500 to take a month long, cheap as chips holiday through somewhere in asia, haha.
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Old 01-08-2018   #150
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I don't have the $3000 yet. Maybe never
The other alternative is to keep the $3000 safe in the bank!
I don't understand. Do you have $3k to spend or not?
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Old 01-08-2018   #151
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Invest your 3000 clams. If the primary reason needs to be for the purchase of a camera, tell yourself that you're saving for a new Konost digital rangefinder camera. I predict that you will be both a happy and wealthy man in the future...perhaps cameraless though...
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Old 01-08-2018   #152
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I guess in the age of digital there's an easy option for panoramics, but is it as fun?
Depends on what you like to do. I'm having fun shooting digital for 7x17 format.
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Old 01-08-2018   #153
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I don't understand. Do you have $3k to spend or not?
I don't. It is a hypothetical issue. "If I had $3000".
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Old 01-08-2018   #154
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Did someone mention the Konost? Wow, blast from the past!
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Old 01-08-2018   #155
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Your question is timely. Somebody on my local Craigslist is offering a DS Leica M3 with 50mm DR Summicron, a 21/4 Super-Angulon with “eyes,” a 135/4 Elmar, a collapsible 90/4 Elmar, and all sorts of filters and finders for $2,500.00. Tempting as hell, but something I don’t need (even though the 21/4 would be interesting). Trying mightily to resist the call of GAS…..

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Old 01-08-2018   #156
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Oh, a Goldberg SA with goggles? Those are uncommon! Wonder if they'd negotiate a sale of that lens....they could still attempt to sell the remainder as a "package" (which is usually a terrible idea as a seller).
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Old 01-08-2018   #157
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Oh, a Goldberg SA with goggles? Those are uncommon! Wonder if they'd negotiate a sale of that lens....they could still attempt to sell the remainder as a "package" (which is usually a terrible idea as a seller).
I may ask if hell separate his package. I live in a rural area and I doubt hell get many takers for classic Leica gear, especially at the price hes asking. And I havent seen any of this stuff so for all I know, the lenses are full of fungus. His pictures look nice though.

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Old 01-09-2018   #158
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I may be wrong about the lens being a Goldberg creation (could be a Tom A. contraption), but those goggled 21SA are not at all common. I saw one for sale a few years ago...that's it. Someone around here can probably provide more info.

Good luck! It would be a nice lens to have... Sure hope there's no fungus!
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Old 01-10-2018   #159
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An interesting question, muse, whatever is why was this thread put in the Leica General Discussion range...

Regards, David
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Old 01-10-2018   #160
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It was put here because such discussions have consistently been of interest to many RFF members. If you would do a study on RFF threads, you would see a high concentration of the threads was about such a topic.
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