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Lightroom has some new compettion
Old 11-01-2017   #1
PKR
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Lightroom has some new compettion

I don't know this product. But, it seems they see the Adobe LR model lacking. Maybe it's the subscription requirement?

From Photo Rumors

Luminar 2018
https://photorumors.com/2017/11/01/l...m-alternative/

From Peta Pixel
https://petapixel.com/2017/11/01/mac...obe-lightroom/

PR:

"The new Luminar 2018 takes on Adobe Lightroom

New Luminar 2018 delivers a breakthrough photo editing experience for photographers on Mac & Windows with new filters, tools, non-destructive editing, major speed boosts, and a digital asset management platform that will arrive in 2018.

San Diego, CA - November 1, 2017 — Macphun, the California-based software developer today announced Luminar 2018. New users will be able to purchase Luminar 2018 for $59, and current users of Luminar may upgrade at a special price of $39. Preorders start November 1 here.

Luminar 2018 offers everything a modern photographer needs for photo editing, including new filters powered by artificial intelligence, major speed improvements, a dedicated RAW develop module and a forthcoming in 2018 digital asset management platform. Users will also benefit from the new intelligent Sun Rays filter, LUT support, and real-time noise removal. With adaptive workspaces that match styles of shooting, Luminar adapts to deliver a complete experience that avoids clutter and complexity."
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Old 11-01-2017   #2
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I'll be following this with great interest. Adobe's announcement that they are going full-subscription has lost me as a customer - I update every two versions, currently on LR5 and was waiting for standalone LR7, but can't do that now so I'm looking at alternatives.

I've never been able to get along with Capture One Pro (though it's been a little while since my last attempt), plus the Affinity Photo digital asset management seems like it's a fair way off from their recent posts on the subject.

Very interested to test out this new option and see how it goes!
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Old 11-01-2017   #3
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I do not understand why more people do not simply use Corel Paintshop Pro (PSP) for photo editing. Perhaps it is because 20 years ago it was a pretty basic piece of software and people are still a bit prejudiced against it for this reason.

But PSP has been upgraded regularly and now is a product that for photographers at least is every bit as functional as Photoshop. Not quite as powerful perhaps for graphic designers but certainly it does an effective job in post processing photos. And as for Lightroom, that product is OK for basic post processing but is lacking in its ability to do some things I need of it hence my support for PSP. To add to this, it is dirt cheap by comparison with Adobe products and still operates on a stand alone one-off license.

I bought a copy of Lightroom a year or so back because it is fine for quick basic editing. But I still use PSP and Nik Plugins as programs which run in conjunction with Lightroom.

When I get to a point in my editing where I need something done that Lightroom cannot readily handle all I need to do is click on one a link to one of the other programs from within Lightroom and it exports the image I am working on to that program for further editing just as it would with any plugin.

When I save the changes made in that other program it automatically re-imports the image complete with the changes back into Lightroom again. For me that arrangement works well though I realize that eventually I may not be able to do this if I need to upgrade Lightroom at some future date and do not wish to change to a monthly subscription. I will worry about that another day.
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Old 11-01-2017   #4
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ACDSee Pro's latest incarnation 'Ultimate 2018' has just been released and is getting some very good reviews. This is for windows platforms and sadly what they offer for Mac users is a joke by comparison. I always used their software going back to Pro 6 and earlier prior to switching to a Mac ... and preferred it to LR.
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Old 11-01-2017   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlG View Post
but can't do that now so I'm looking at alternatives.
Have you tried Gimp?

That's what I've been using for the past couple of years, in lieu of Adobe, and about the only thing I do outside of it is Neat Image for the shots that need it.
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Old 11-01-2017   #6
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Another vote for ACDSee Pro.
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Old 11-01-2017   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr View Post
Have you tried Gimp?

That's what I've been using for the past couple of years, in lieu of Adobe, and about the only thing I do outside of it is Neat Image for the shots that need it.
I have tried Gimp, but it's not really what I need - I don't tend to do too much editing to my images other than basic exposure/colour/contrast.

All I really need is a solid digital asset management software with features like collections, keywords, ratings, tags etc combined with basic non-destructive editing.

If Affinity ever gets their DAM module sorted out, it may be a decent option. Really, I would be happy with just standalone Lightroom 7 (though I'll probably just keep using LR 5 for a while until I figure out what works!)
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Old 11-01-2017   #8
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If you want asset management look at imatch.


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Old 11-01-2017   #9
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Looks interesting - thanks!
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Old 11-02-2017   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post
I do not understand why more people do not simply use Corel Paintshop Pro (PSP) for photo editing....
I used PSP years ago when it was JASC PSP. I loved it.

But, as far as I can determine, it's only available for Windows. I use a Mac. Am I wrong about this?
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Old 11-02-2017   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
I used PSP years ago when it was JASC PSP. I loved it.

But, as far as I can determine, it's only available for Windows. I use a Mac. Am I wrong about this?
I have never checked. You may be right.

I would add for those using the Windows platform that the 64 bit version (latest version PSP 2018) is enormously faster than the older 32 bit version I was using before which was about 3 versions older. It loads faster, the edits refresh faster and it seems more stable. Not that the older version was bad unredeemably bad. But this one is just better.
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Old 11-02-2017   #12
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There are a variety of "asset management" programs, and there are lots of editing programs. What LR does very well, and any competition to LR needs to do is combine the two seamlessly.
There aren't too many competitors in that space, and more the merrier. I'm done with LR once I need to upgrade, I'm not down for subscribing to software for a hobby.
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Old 11-02-2017   #13
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Luminar 2018 is OS X only.

OS X users exploring LR alternatives should also investigate Pixelmator. Pixelmator is an excellent rendering platform. It has one disadvantage. Pixelmator uses OS X's raw-rendering engine. Apple typically lags behind Adobe in supporting new camera raw files. Before LR CC was born, I used LR and Pixelmator (for layers) instead of LR and PS. Pixelmator will open DNG files.

Pixelmator has an iOS iPad app.

Also, Pixelmator Pro will be released this fall. It seems Pixelmator Pro combines Pixelmators raw rendering functionality with the ability to create layouts. Pixelmator Pro uses a non-destructive workflow.

I'm a satisfied LR Classic CC user, so I haven't spent time looking into any details about Luminar 2018. I wonder if it also uses the OS X rendering engine?
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Old 11-02-2017   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr View Post
Have you tried Gimp?

That's what I've been using for the past couple of years, in lieu of Adobe, and about the only thing I do outside of it is Neat Image for the shots that need it.
In ancient times, GIMP had a bit-depth limitation. Has this changed?
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Basically, I mean, ah—well, let’s say that for me anyway when a photograph is interesting, it’s interesting because of the kind of photographic problem it states—which has to do with the . . . contest between content and form.
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Old 11-02-2017   #15
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Let me preface by saying I don’t use Lightroom.

Thought I would provide this link to B & H where Lightroom 6 is still available either DVD or download:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...op+Nav-Search=

I won’t use an off site server, so called “cloud,” as I keep my stuff in house.

Thinking, if and when I upgrade my computer On One has some interesting software. When I do upgrade it would be for the internet as my current equipment works just fine for processing my photographs.

Check On One out here:

https://www.on1.com

I do use an On One plug in with my CS4 on my iMac.
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Old 11-02-2017   #16
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I just use Apple's "Photos" app. I don't need anything more complicated.
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Old 11-02-2017   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
Luminar 2018 is OS X only.
Linked article HEADLINE
Luminar 2018 for Mac & PC now available for pre-order (Lightroom alternative)


Apparently PC (Win 7-10) also now....
Interesting offering... Good... But how about Lr catalogs... I have to keep a current version of Lr to keep Lr edits.
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Old 11-02-2017   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNG View Post
Linked article HEADLINE
Luminar 2018 for Mac & PC now available for pre-order (Lightroom alternative)


Apparently PC (Win 7-10) also now....
Interesting offering... Good... But how about Lr catalogs... I have to keep a current version of Lr to keep Lr edits.
In reading about them, the move to cover the Win OS is, what's behind their name change.
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Old 11-02-2017   #19
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I own it on the Mac, and sine my move back to Windows am running the beta there. The versions are equivalent. The progress has been steady on improvements and the customer service very responsive. I am looking forward to the DAM module and the ability to use my lightroom plugins.

I have heard said that several of the former Nik developers are involved, which would explain a lot. No verification though.
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Old 11-03-2017   #20
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I use LR6 and Capture One for tethered shooting and my Sony.
DXO Bought the Nik suite from Google and just incorporated Nik's U-point technology in their latest offering: DxO PhotoLab.
I didn't try this, but it looks promising and I will be following their integration with NIK and/or their new Nik collection in 2018
I will remain using LR6 until it is no longer feasible or the ultimate 'killer app' arrives.
Don't intend to lease SW or worse, store my pictures in the cloud (which is nothing more than somebody else's computer)
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Old 11-03-2017   #21
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I don't understand the reluctance to Adobe's subscription plans. I have the full CC subscription because I use many of their programs, but you can get Lightroom, Photoshop and 20TB of cloud storage for $10 per month now. Seems like a steal for $120 dollars a year. Constant updates to the software is just a bonus. I can't understand people who own $6,000 dollar cameras complaining about $10 a month.
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Old 11-03-2017   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Owens View Post
I don't understand the reluctance to Adobe's subscription plans. I have the full CC subscription because I use many of their programs, but you can get Lightroom, Photoshop and 20TB of cloud storage for $10 per month now. Seems like a steal for $120 dollars a year. Constant updates to the software is just a bonus. I can't understand people who own $6,000 dollar cameras complaining about $10 a month.
Because you then own the camera and don't have to pay all the time. You can also sell it. I don't have a problem with $10/month only if when I don't want anymore upgrades I can still use the product. As it stands, you could sink 10 years of subscription and then have a tough month, mis a payment, and then what? What happens to your 20TB of cloud storage? What about the images you were working on?
I bought LR 5 when it came out as an academic staff member for $99. I also have CS6 through the same scheme which cost me ~$45. $10 a month for the rest of my photography life? No thanks.

On the other hand, if I was in the business getting it an subscription would be a no brainier.
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Old 11-03-2017   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Owens View Post
I don't understand the reluctance to Adobe's subscription plans. I have the full CC subscription because I use many of their programs, but you can get Lightroom, Photoshop and 20TB of cloud storage for $10 per month now. Seems like a steal for $120 dollars a year. Constant updates to the software is just a bonus. I can't understand people who own $6,000 dollar cameras complaining about $10 a month.
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Old 11-03-2017   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Owens View Post
I don't understand the reluctance to Adobe's subscription plans. I have the full CC subscription because I use many of their programs, but you can get Lightroom, Photoshop and 20TB of cloud storage for $10 per month now. Seems like a steal for $120 dollars a year. Constant updates to the software is just a bonus. I can't understand people who own $6,000 dollar cameras complaining about $10 a month.
100% agree, as satisfied user of it. It's more or less equivalent of a roll of film...

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Old 11-03-2017   #25
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This choice has nothing to do with perceiving the value of SW, just plain economics.

Please check my calculations?
I live in Europe, where the prices are a bit higher than in the US.
I just checked and I upgraded to LR 6 in september 2015 for € 75.
I don't use Photoshop, just LR and the monthly CC fee is €12.09
subscription would have costed me 27 * €12,09 = €326,43
Why would I spent €250 more to get approx. the same?
(and I still can keep using the SW as long as I don't buy unsupported camera's)

btw; Did you notice the stock value of Adobe? this move to monthly rent is a goldmine for them. In two years time it rose from US$ 100 to US$180. . . . .
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Old 11-03-2017   #26
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Well, for me subscription is not my cup of tea.

I bought CS4 in either late 2008 or early 2009 for around $200.00 for the upgrade DVD.

If my math is correct, I’ve owned CS4 for around 108 months.

108 times ten bucks is a lot more than 200 or 250 bucks.

Of course Monte used to call me “cheapie!”

At any rate, different strokes....
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Old 11-03-2017   #27
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If you find that CC does not provide value, then don't use it. Others do find value in up to date software, particularly where they are users of both LR and PS.
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Old 11-03-2017   #28
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I echo Franz'z feelings: $3 a month would be closer to what I spend currently for LR: $80 purchase price, with a 2-3 year upgrade cycle.

However, for me, it goes beyod economics. Even at $1 a month, I'd resist the concept of renting software. If Adobe gave me a choice of paying $1 a month, $12 one-time payment for the whole year, and $30 to buy the program outright, I'd go for the $30.

Additionally, I dislike the whole concept of bundling. Obviously it's very profitable, but as a customer I'd prefer to just get LR if that all I need. In America TV service provides use the same scheme to charge extra for essentially one or two worthwhile channels, padding the offer with a dozen worthless channels. Thank goodness supermarkets don't work the same way!
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Old 11-03-2017   #29
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Anyone watched the video on the Photo Rumours link?

It appears to be a really efficient way of delivering horrible looking fakey photos.
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Old 11-03-2017   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
...
I won’t use an off site server, so called “cloud,” as I keep my stuff in house.

...
I also refuse to use an off-site server and "keep n stuff in house".

I also happen to use LR CC every day.
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Old 11-03-2017   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNG View Post
Linked article HEADLINE
Luminar 2018 for Mac & PC now available for pre-order (Lightroom alternative)


...
Thanks for the correction.
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Basically, I mean, ah—well, let’s say that for me anyway when a photograph is interesting, it’s interesting because of the kind of photographic problem it states—which has to do with the . . . contest between content and form.
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Old 11-03-2017   #32
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I guess it boils down to people not perceiving the value in software, perhaps because a lot is provided for free (this forum for example)..
The forum is just a software package, server time and web access (sans the mods and environment created). The value here is in the content. It's actually stated at the bottom of every page: "All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner"

Not taking anything from Stephen. Look at the traffic here vs other photo related sites.

As with things like EBay, if there weren't any sellers, EBay would not exist.


Photo Software is a tool, no different than your camera, computer or printing consumables. It has value and wouldn't be created, in most cases, if it wasn't profitable. In the case of Adobe, their business model for their subscription products includes owing all the imagery that is passed into their web system. I want no part of that business model.
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Old 11-03-2017   #33
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In the case of Adobe, their business model for their subscription products includes owing all the imagery that is passed into their web system. I want no part of that business model.

Is that really the case?

Adobe T & Cs for e.g. 'Portfolio' contain the following apparently clear statement:

Ownership. You retain all rights and ownership of your content. We do not claim any ownership rights to your content.
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Old 11-03-2017   #34
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Really? Adobe take ownership of every image that users copy onto their servers? I.e. when you sync a Lightroom collection.

I'm not disagreeing BTW...I'd just be very surprised if this were true.
See post #31 and beyond.
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...20#post2763220

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Old 11-03-2017   #35
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Anyone watched the video on the Photo Rumours link?

It appears to be a really efficient way of delivering horrible looking fakey photos.
Yes, I came across Luminar a week or so ago and downloaded the trial but I can't get it to run. Looking at their website for help all I could see was examples of extreme digital manipulation, not what I am looking for, so have been put off.

I was looking for an alternative to Lightroom and Photoshop but all the better alternatives seem to be Windows only (iMatch, which I used 13 years ago, and Paintshop Pro) so will probably end up upgrading to LR6 anyway and see if anything complete comes along.
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Old 11-03-2017   #36
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From Mike Johnston at TOP

"• Annoyed at Adobe? What Michael Reichmann called "the Photoshop tax" seems to some people to be getting more onerous. With the latest shift in Lightroom to a CC (Creative Cloud) monthly subscription model, it's not hard to foresee a future in which you're consigned to storing your own archive not on your own hard drive (or not only on your own hard drive), but on the amorphous "cloud." Where, of course, your pictures will be safe in perpetuity, we say sarcastically."

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...log_index.html

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Old 11-03-2017   #37
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I was looking for an alternative to Lightroom and Photoshop but all the better alternatives seem to be Windows only (iMatch, which I used 13 years ago, and Paintshop Pro) so will probably end up upgrading to LR6 anyway and see if anything complete comes along.
For an alternative to PS: Did you look into Affinity? I have not much experience with PS, but I have Affinity and think, it is a solid program. Many reviewers say, it is a good alternative to PS.

For the features of LR: I think, currently the mix of functions is more or less unique, although you can puzzle them together with several programs. But this approach is then missing the good integration - which IMHO is the main selling point until now for LR. The important parts are well integrated and you have a more or less consistent workflow for everything. For each single feature, there are several competitors, that do it better, but they all lack the integration of the right feature-mix.

I use LR since quite some time, but always wasn't very happy with many decisions by Adobe. I accept the reasons, why people think, the subscription-model is acceptable or even an advantage for them. I, humbly, don't care, I just don't like it. For many reasons.

That is, why I started to build my own DAM. - First step, DAM only, but with a simple SW-architecture that focuses on flexibility and expandability. So maybe later I add other features , that I think, I need or want. - Since I'm a computer scientist and software-engineer (started programming over 30 years ago, studied computer science and have been a professional in this area for nearly 20 years now), I think, I know what I'm doing and what I will be able to achieve alone and where I will need help.

It will start small, but watch me, Adobe...
Suggestion welcome...
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Old 11-03-2017   #38
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I'm wondering about a few things:
  • Free upgrades sounds nice, but can you decide not to have them in CC?
  • If you can refrain from updating, will 'older versions' of CC be supported indefinitely by Adobe?
  • Is there a locally-stored catalog file in CC, like in stand-alone LR?
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Old 11-03-2017   #39
f16sunshine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krötenblender View Post
For an alternative to PS: Did you look into Affinity? I have not much experience with PS, but I have Affinity and think, it is a solid program. Many reviewers say, it is a good alternative to PS.

For the features of LR: I think, currently the mix of functions is more or less unique, although you can puzzle them together with several programs. But this approach is then missing the good integration - which IMHO is the main selling point until now for LR. The important parts are well integrated and you have a more or less consistent workflow for everything. For each single feature, there are several competitors, that do it better, but they all lack the integration of the right feature-mix.

I use LR since quite some time, but always wasn't very happy with many decisions by Adobe. I accept the reasons, why people think, the subscription-model is acceptable or even an advantage for them. I, humbly, don't care, I just don't like it. For many reasons.

That is, why I started to build my own DAM. - First step, DAM only, but with a simple SW-architecture that focuses on flexibility and expandability. So maybe later I add other features , that I think, I need or want. - Since I'm a computer scientist and software-engineer (started programming over 30 years ago, studied computer science and have been a professional in this area for nearly 20 years now), I think, I know what I'm doing and what I will be able to achieve alone and where I will need help.

It will start small, but watch me, Adobe...
Suggestion welcome...
Go for it!
I like Affinity and have been using it for negative Scan touch up and RAW conversions.
If it had a seamless catalog that would be great. (ala aperture or better)
Build one for affinity please!
I fully support this.
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Old 11-05-2017   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
Go for it!
I like Affinity and have been using it for negative Scan touch up and RAW conversions.
If it had a seamless catalog that would be great. (ala aperture or better)
Build one for affinity please!
I fully support this.
Currently, I'm designing a database-format based on SQLite3, same engine, that Lightroom uses and in the public domain, but much smaller.

Connecting to Affinity is definitely an option, but I haven't looked into its programming interface, yet. I like that it is available on Mac OS, since I don't use Windows privately. But there is no Linux version, and I like to have it run on Mac OS and Linux for me, and on Windows, too, for others. This means, that I have to go for a more or less loose integration with RAW converters and image manipulation programs later.

This, IMHO, will be the greatest advantage of LR for some time: very deep and smooth integration of the functions, most photographers want.

I will start small, and then see where it goes. I don't use most of LRs features, so my first goal is to make myself independent of LR by concentrating on the features I want/need (including those, that LR does not have...). Maybe it will be useful to others as well.
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