Old 01-18-2017   #361
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Leica Sofort. Sold out everywhere. The people have spoken.

Anyway, no-one minds that the M10 no longer offers uncompressed DNG files?
Agree on Sofort.

If camera is good only JPEG1 is needed.
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Old 01-18-2017   #362
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Puts weighs in

He says it's the SL sensor.
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Old 01-18-2017   #363
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Thanks. I have now read his review of the M10. He recommends that users of M8/M9 should now switch to an M10. Food for thought.
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Old 01-18-2017   #364
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Thanks. I have now read his review of the M10. He recommends that users of M8/M9 should now switch to an M10. Food for thought.
I upgraded to a M240 a couple of years ago, but recently returned to the M9. I like the M9 better for the OOC color (maybe less neutral and more Kodachrome-like), quicker start-up, lighter weight. I find the M240 bulky, slow to wake/start-up, and OOC colors unappealing. The M10 seems to have fixed all this and as such is very tempting.
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Old 01-18-2017   #365
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What about the M11 in 2 years from now? Will you stick with the M10 then?
What major things can they improve on?

Looks like they got it right this time
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Old 01-18-2017   #366
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What major things can they improve on?

Looks like they got it right this time
A new sensor maybe. Not that the current one is inadequate.
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Old 01-18-2017   #367
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What major things can they improve on?

Looks like they got it right this time
Hybrid EVF/OVF. Dynamic projected framelines.
Better battery.
Smoother, quieter shutter.
Better dynamic range.
Larger buffer.

Cheaper (HA!)
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Old 01-18-2017   #368
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"The camera as a tool does not produce better pictures than the M/240...
If you are happy with the results of the M/240 or the MM2 it is best to skip the M10 release."
When I'm honest, then there is nothing really that much better in the M10 compared to the 240, just some refinements. When even the image quality is not significantly better, I'll stick with the 240 for the next 3-4 years.
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Old 01-18-2017   #369
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Hybrid EVF/OVF. Dynamic projected framelines.
Better battery.
Smoother, quieter shutter.
Better dynamic range.
Larger buffer.

Cheaper (HA!)
That "Cheaper" in bold letters is funny. In Germany the M10 is 20 EUR less than the M240, so it's not really cheaper at all. Only our silly mind makes us think it's so much cheaper because we expected a price raise again of 1000 EUR on the body.

Better battery life? Ok, but I never used my 2nd battery for the M240, it's already lasting so long.
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Old 01-18-2017   #370
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A new sensor maybe. Not that the current one is inadequate.
It has a new sensor - despite similar specifications, Leica insists that it is not the same as M-Q-SL. It certainly has a much higher ISO performance.
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Old 01-18-2017   #371
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It has a new sensor - despite similar specifications, Leica insists that it is not the same as M-Q-SL. It certainly has a much higher ISO performance.
Puts makes no bones and directly states it's the SL sensor with new NR algorithms that allow the better ISO. Still if it's better it's better. That's what matters.

He says the real "beef" is the sweet M3 ergos and nice finder, plus a much better shutter.

The claim of improved profiles will have to wait for the real people to get the camera and put their "problem" lenses, like the pre-asph 21 Elmarit, on there. Obviously they have worked on the default camera profile to make the the OOC more punchy.

He says it's still too heavy
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Old 01-19-2017   #372
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Hybrid EVF/OVF. Dynamic projected framelines.
Better battery.
Smoother, quieter shutter.
Better dynamic range.
Larger buffer.

Cheaper (HA!)
My only Leica is a IIIf - which I use and in fact I used yesterday to take photos of a sculpture garden I happened upon - so I am not 100% committed to digital and I could never justify the expenditure on a new Leica. Speaking as an outsider then, what strikes me about these improvements is how late to the game Leica really is. Now I know we are talking about a "full frame" sensor and a camera optimised to use M lenses (in the latter respect the Leica digital cameras are irreplaceable), but consider that Fuji was the innovator of the combined optical-electronic viewfinder and the Olympus Pen F, for example, has an an electronic shutter option giving you full silent mode.

Not saying that the M-10 is not worth it, but Leica does seem to be behind the curve.
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Old 01-19-2017   #373
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But I am not sure I would want to use a camera that expensive every day on the street - it is about double what my (2nd hand) M 262 cost here in Europe...
This is exactly my thought. I'm sure it's a wonderful camera and a joy to use, an in principle I could even afford it (afford it, not justify it), but I would be too scared to bring it with me on my daily bike commute or on a trip for fear to ruin/break it or have it stolen.
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Old 01-19-2017   #374
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Leica Sofort. Sold out everywhere. The people have spoken.

Anyway, no-one minds that the M10 no longer offers uncompressed DNG files?
I think the sold-out Sofort is due primarily to people really wanting a Fuji Instax camera that isn't completely hideous. Lol.

If Fuji were to make some better looking versions of thei own Instax cameras, they'd likely sell better...
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Old 01-19-2017   #375
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Not saying that the M-10 is not worth it, but Leica does seem to be behind the curve.
I think Leica doesn't want to be on the curve with the M10. It's staying on the straight line back to the M3. The other Leicas are trying the curve.
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Old 01-19-2017   #376
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Can anyone lend me the money to get a Leica M10.....please?
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Old 01-19-2017   #377
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Why borrow money when you should get a free M10 as a gift!
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Old 01-19-2017   #378
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It has a new sensor - despite similar specifications, Leica insists that it is not the same as M-Q-SL. It certainly has a much higher ISO performance.
If Leica says so, then the sensor is different from that of the Q. Interesting.
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Old 01-19-2017   #379
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Every Leica is the Leica I am looking for.
haha, i feel the SAME way.

The M10 sure looks sweet. Cant wait until i can grab one for under $2000 in about 5-8 years
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Old 01-19-2017   #380
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But I am not sure I would want to use a camera that expensive every day on the street - it is about double what my (2nd hand) M 262 cost here in Europe...
You have to get over that and just see it as a tool. People drive around in new cars that costs tens of thousands of $$ without worrying that it is "too expensive for the street". Its just a thing, use it!
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Old 01-19-2017   #381
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This is exactly my thought. I'm sure it's a wonderful camera and a joy to use, an in principle I could even afford it (afford it, not justify it), but I would be too scared to bring it with me on my daily bike commute or on a trip for fear to ruin/break it or have it stolen.
It's just a tool. I carry my M out with me every day in every part of NYC and have yet to run into any issues *knocks on wood* You could also get insurance and then use it like you would anything else.
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Old 01-19-2017   #382
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Yes, you've just got to force yourself to use it. I went to Nepal for a month with mine slung below my face with sweat dripping onto it. Dust, heat, freeze, humid. It took it all. These leicas are pretty tough
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Old 01-19-2017   #383
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Does anybody know what the next model will bring to the table..? I'm already bored of this one..
Just kidding..!
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Old 01-19-2017   #384
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I think the sold-out Sofort is due primarily to people really wanting a Fuji Instax camera that isn't completely hideous. Lol.

If Fuji were to make some better looking versions of thei own Instax cameras, they'd likely sell better...
The 90 looks nice. I have one. And the Sofort is this camera repackaged.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ni_90_neo.html

And.. Fuji Instax cameras are huge sellers. Fuji makes more money selling them and the film than all their digital cameras/lenses combined.
It's what is keeping Fuji's camera division afloat.
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Old 01-19-2017   #385
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I think Leica doesn't want to be on the curve with the M10. It's staying on the straight line back to the M3. The other Leicas are trying the curve.
Well I guess it looks like a M3; we are talking about digital camera, however.
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Old 01-19-2017   #386
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.....but consider that Fuji was the innovator of the combined optical-electronic viewfinder and the Olympus Pen F, for example, has an an electronic shutter option giving you full silent mode.

Not saying that the M-10 is not worth it, but Leica does seem to be behind the curve.
Leica was and is on its own track so I personally don't see behind what curve they are.

Electronic shutter... you mean that thing that is used to reduce shutter shock and that may produces nice rolling shutter effects and definitely reduces the dynamic range of the sensor compared to mechanical shutter... yeah... killer feature.
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Old 01-19-2017   #387
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... Speaking as an outsider... Leica does seem to be behind the curve.
Yep, but once you are insider the game of words change.

I was interested to get Fuji X100f because it was announced with "focus lever". But realized it has nothing to do with Leica real focus lever and F word came to my mind.
Same was with Pen F, expensive and overloaded comparing to original F camera, but tiny sensor... F indeed!

Funny, but old typ 106 just became less expensive, but still more attractive than these, IMO.
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Old 01-19-2017   #388
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I'll buy it ...if my local Leica store has it in stock before I make another move...
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Old 01-19-2017   #389
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How many individuals have already posted their reviews of the M10?
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Old 01-19-2017   #390
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For me, the single, most interesting feature about Leica's new camera is the modified viewfinder. Would be great, to be able to see the 28mm framelines again.

BTW, Raid, already in the 240, DNG compression is (mathematically) lossless, so no need for uncompressed DNG.

Roland.
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Old 01-19-2017   #391
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The 90 looks nice. I have one. And the Sofort is this camera repackaged.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ni_90_neo.html

And.. Fuji Instax cameras are huge sellers. Fuji makes more money selling them and the film than all their digital cameras/lenses combined.
It's what is keeping Fuji's camera division afloat.
LOL. I never said the Fuji Instax cameras didn't sell well. Just that they'd probably sell better if they weren't hideous. Personally, I think the 90 is a bit "cheesy" in regards to its "retro" styling. It's a goofy looking camera. Even the name... Instax 90 Neo Classic... how corny is that?

Leica did what it does best... make something elegant, simple, and expensive.

Leica Sofort. Simple name. Great styling. High price.

Now back to the M10!
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Old 01-19-2017   #392
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I just ordered one. Now comes the dreadful waiting!!

I ordered from BH, does anyone have any idea when they will ship?
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Old 01-19-2017   #393
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Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
Puts makes no bones and directly states it's the SL sensor with new NR algorithms that allow the better ISO. Still if it's better it's better. That's what matters.

He says the real "beef" is the sweet M3 ergos and nice finder, plus a much better shutter.

The claim of improved profiles will have to wait for the real people to get the camera and put their "problem" lenses, like the pre-asph 21 Elmarit, on there. Obviously they have worked on the default camera profile to make the the OOC more punchy.

He says it's still too heavy
And he is the only one. Leica, Sean Reid and others state clearly that it is not the SL sensor but a newly developed one.
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Old 01-19-2017   #394
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How many individuals have already posted their reviews of the M10?
Dozens.
....
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Old 01-19-2017   #395
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And he is the only one. Leica, Sean Reid and others state clearly that it is not the SL sensor but a newly developed one.
My friends at the different Leica stores say it is an SL sensor, just tweaked a little.
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Old 01-19-2017   #396
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As I stated 4 weeks ago, it is not the SL/Q sensor. It is a different sensor. I hope to be able to get into Seattle this weekend and see the new M10. Maybe, they'll even have one to take home. I really like this camera. And, Ive gotten over the no video. I'll adapt, I'll survive.
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Old 01-19-2017   #397
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LOL. I never said the Fuji Instax cameras didn't sell well. Just that they'd probably sell better if they weren't hideous. Personally, I think the 90 is a bit "cheesy" in regards to its "retro" styling. It's a goofy looking camera. Even the name... Instax 90 Neo Classic... how corny is that?

Leica did what it does best... make something elegant, simple, and expensive.

Leica Sofort. Simple name. Great styling. High price.

Now back to the M10!
Sell better?

"The Wall Street Journal reports that Fuji’s Instax cameras are selling in record numbers and far outpacing the company’s digital cameras. The company estimates that it sold 5 million of the cameras in the fiscal year that just ended last month, and that it will sell at least 6.5 million in the next year.

By comparison, the company only sold 1.4 million digital cameras in the previous year. What’s more, the standalone digital camera industry saw a 19% decline."

I handled the Sofort and functionally it is identical to the Fuji, and from a build perspective is just as plasticky. It is just more square and more shiny. I still like it.

The M10 I like more...
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Old 01-19-2017   #398
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...

Not saying that the M-10 is not worth it, but Leica does seem to be behind the curve.
Which is (as weird as it may sound) exactly the selling point of a Leica RF. Leica RF had been behind it (if that what someone wants to call it) since the 70's (after the SLR took the market).

I would prefer to say Leica M took a different evolution path than the mainstream camera market. Not something bad, but different. Its the same with the M10. Its sensor is an evolution from the SL sensor, not the same, not a copy, but something that came out of the SL sensor, with focus on the M camera format.

Still seeing if I will make the Digital RF transition (made the DSLR transition and back again a few years ago) with the M10.


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Old 01-19-2017   #399
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Sooo... silver or black? The silver is paint, not chrome like on an M3. Black is paint too. They'll both show the same wear I'd think.
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Old 01-19-2017   #400
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It really looked like black chrome. Sigh.
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