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View Poll Results: Does your M body have a run on sound at 1/30th and 1/15th?
Yes run on 63 92.65%
No run on 2 2.94%
On some of my M cameras, not on others 3 4.41%
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Does your M body have a "run on" at 1/15th and 1/30th?
Old 01-20-2016   #1
jmilkins
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Does your M body have a "run on" at 1/15th and 1/30th?

So I noticed something recently that I'd like to hear about in your M bodies.

At 1/ 15th and 1/30th on shutter release some of mine have a "run on" sound after the shutter opens and closes. Sort of like a cog still whirring. above and below it is the Leica soft click. Some don't have this run on at all.

Here is what I observe at both speeds on different bodies:

1 x M2 no run on.
1 x M2 run on
1 x M4P no run on
2 x M5 no run on
1 x M6 run on.

Rather than a massive poll with all Ms and options I 've gone simpler. However please add a comment too on your experience.

Finally who knows why?
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Old 01-20-2016   #2
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M3 ss at 1/15 and 1/30. M6 classic only at 1/15.
I prefer the M3's silent bzzz-shw

Excellent thread btw!
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Old 01-20-2016   #3
OurManInTangier
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My M6 classic had it on 1/15 as well, only 1/15 that I remember. The TTL I had gave no hint of any run-on sound.

I always assumed there was a slight issue with my particular M, just not one that affected results in any perceivable way.

I'd be interested to know what the cause is.
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Old 01-20-2016   #4
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Normal behavior at 1/15 sec. Sounds like a BB thrown into a can.
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Old 01-20-2016   #5
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Normal. In fact the bartender recommends checking this on 1/15 before buying a used M. It's less on my TTL and M4 at 1/30.
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Old 01-20-2016   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipus View Post
Normal. In fact the bartender recommends checking this on 1/15 before buying a used M. It's less on my TTL and M4 at 1/30.
Excellent. After all these years of wondering (but being too lazy to find out without any obvious need) I finally know that a) it's what you want to hear and b) it's the sound of two gears whirring....and c) the answer was hereabouts all along

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Old 01-20-2016   #7
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Shutter break working properly. If not there, it needs CLA
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Old 01-20-2016   #8
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This is RFF - the answer is always hereabouts- that's why this place is so great.

I had indeed read Stephen's advice numerous times but filed that particular info as well as I file my negs....

That said, I know the cameras that don't bzz-shw or BB are still giving accurate exposures at 1/15th and 1/30th. The two that do have either been serviced within 6 years (M2) or are the newest (M6 Classic).
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Old 01-20-2016   #9
mcfingon
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I can hear the "run on" at 1/30, 1/20, 1/15 and 1/10 on my '46 IIIc. So it has got more "features" than the later cameras
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Old 01-20-2016   #10
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My M6 has the tickedy tick tick run on after 15th and 30th, music to my ears!

Do you have to wait for the noise to stop before advancing the film?
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Old 01-20-2016   #11
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Just checked and voted accordingly. Answer= Yes for that sound on my Leica M2 this morning on those two speeds and no others.

This is looking like being something completely normal based on the responses so far then. Glad I had never noticed until now or it would have been something that the OCD side of me could have become paranoid about, just like the OP perhaps?
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Old 01-20-2016   #12
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M2 and M4-P. Both work perfectly and both had recent CLA.
All speeds below and including 1/30th second have this "run on".
The longer the time, the longer the run on.
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Old 01-20-2016   #13
Richard G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
My M6 has the tickedy tick tick run on after 15th and 30th, music to my ears!

Do you have to wait for the noise to stop before advancing the film?
Presumably, and I wouldn't try confirming it.
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Old 01-20-2016   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
Presumably, and I wouldn't try confirming it.
That's why I was hoping someone else already had!
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Old 01-20-2016   #15
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Bzzzzit-tick-tick.
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Old 01-20-2016   #16
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M3 - have the run-on sound. Quite like it but always wondered what causes it. Now i know! Thanks for the thread.
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Old 01-20-2016   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
My M6 has the tickedy tick tick run on after 15th and 30th, music to my ears!

Do you have to wait for the noise to stop before advancing the film?
As far as I know you don't have to wait but I do it anyway..
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Old 01-21-2016   #18
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Yes it does, and it should.
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Old 01-21-2016   #19
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I agree that "it does, and it should". In fact it is an excellent sign that the shutter mechanism is in good working order, the 1/15th speed being the significant one. In the better 3c, 3f and 3g LTM models, it is actually advisable on evaluating a body, to hear the run on sound as confirmation of shutter condition. Actually, it is a very satisfying metallic/mechanical sound of "all is well" significance, in the age of power operated digital stuff, what?
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Old 01-21-2016   #20
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Always wondered about this, having an in-service but perfectly fine M3... Now I get to feel the satisfaction that all is well. When it comes to old cameras, this is the real Leica difference....
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Old 01-21-2016   #21
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Leica Master Technician Gus Lazzari informed me about this issue several years back after my query on the M3 he serviced for me. I had noticed this noise after the camera came back to me. Gus stated that this "run on" or "afterbuzz" is due to the very freed-up slow speed mechanism, and is a normal characteristic of the parts being extremely clean and properly lubricated.
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Old 01-21-2016   #22
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Yep, my previous M2 had it, my M4-P has it and my MP has it.

I remember being curious about it too the first time I heard it.
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Old 01-21-2016   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZPhotog View Post
Leica Master Technician Gus Lazzari informed me about this issue several years back after my query on the M3 he serviced for me. I had noticed this noise after the camera came back to me. Gus stated that this "run on" or "afterbuzz" is due to the very freed-up slow speed mechanism, and is a normal characteristic of the parts being extremely clean and properly lubricated.
Correct. Nothing to do with the shutter or the brake. I've watched the gears run on many M's. No need to wait for it to stop either before advancing. As you advance on some cameras you will hear the mechanism resetting.
This is one of my checks to see if the camera has been serviced properly.
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Old 01-21-2016   #24
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As a side note the only way to properly clean and lube the mechanism is to take it out. RF mechanism needs removing which is probably why many don't sound normal after a cla. It's a fiddly arse job and takes patience. Clean the mechanism by a good soak in lighter fluid then relube. I suspect many are never removed and given a drop or two of cleaner fluid and then relubed without removal.
Never take this mechanism apart! Will van Manen did on my MP to straighten one of the bearing plates and confessed it was a nightmare to get back together. If you are a watchsmith you should have no
problem!
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Old 01-21-2016   #25
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yes, all my 2 Ms behave similarly, except:
- M3 (serviced by Youxin Ye): longer "run-on"
- M2 (serviced by local tech): shorter "run-on"
According to post above, does it mean that the M3 was serviced better than M2?
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Old 01-22-2016   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiemchacsu View Post
yes, all my 2 Ms behave similarly, except:
- M3 (serviced by Youxin Ye): longer "run-on"
- M2 (serviced by local tech): shorter "run-on"
According to post above, does it mean that the M3 was serviced better than M2?
Probably! In all seriousness it doesn't matter as long as the mechanism does its job. If it doesn't you will get hanging second curtains and inconsistent speeds.
I rarely use less than 1/15 anyway and have only ever used long times on Slr for water effects.
It seems I'm not alone as its probably the most unused mechanism in an M camera hence the gumming up of the gears.
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Old 01-23-2016   #27
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This is an enjoyable exploration.
I agree that I rarely use below 1/8th.
With the comments above, I went back and tried my Ms and there is indeed a run on that gets increasing longer from 1/15th and slower...and that has actually shown me that all my Ms run on....just some a little less obviously.
I only tested at 1/30th and 1/15th initially, where the run on is much shorter and harder to catch.
Another RFF member and I were speculating that the poll might be biased by those with no run ons not voting, but if you try it at increasingly slower speeds it s really obvious.

Well, really obvious with the camera body pressed against your ear!

(My wife now thinks I'm certifiable...and it beginning to agree with the OCD charge)
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Old 01-23-2016   #28
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My R6.2 does something like this at 1/250. It's even mentioned as normal in the manual.
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Old 01-26-2016   #29
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Both my M3 and M2 have this... "issue."

I always thought it was my Beater M3 that had this, but my near-mint M2 has it too. Both at 1/15th and 1/30th.

Edit:Might also be worth noting that is far more pronounced with M3 than M2.
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Old 01-27-2016   #30
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Only a few shots left on the roll before I can cycle all the speeds with the camera to my ear. I might wait until my wife is out so I don't get committed with John!
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Old 01-27-2016   #31
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You can borrow one til you're done Michael....
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Old 01-28-2016   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasB View Post
Both my M3 and M2 have this... "issue."

I always thought it was my Beater M3 that had this, but my near-mint M2 has it too. Both at 1/15th and 1/30th.

Edit:Might also be worth noting that is far more pronounced with M3 than M2.
it's only an issue if it's a problem and the mechanical gears turning after exposure is normal!
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Old 02-26-2016   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZPhotog View Post
Leica Master Technician Gus Lazzari informed me about this issue several years back after my query on the M3 he serviced for me. I had noticed this noise after the camera came back to me. Gus stated that this "run on" or "afterbuzz" is due to the very freed-up slow speed mechanism, and is a normal characteristic of the parts being extremely clean and properly lubricated.
Yes it is the slow speed escapement playing out after exposure, different for different speeds as it is engaged according to the speed selected. Clean gears make the noise and gummy ones don't.
As far as I know the run on occurs after the shutter has finished it's cycle and therefore can be wound on immediately as it is simply the disengaged escapement releasing the un-engaged part of it's travel.
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Old 03-02-2016   #34
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My M1, M2, M3, M4, M4P and M6 have all been serviced either just before purchase or afterwards. All had run-on at 15 and 30. For those I had serviced, there was no run-on beforehand.
Lack of run-on is definitely an indication a service is due.
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Old 03-10-2016   #35
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Question: Does anyone hear it on their M5s? I just picked up an M5, which doesn't have the run-on sound, the film wind feels a little rough (definitely not as smooth as my MP, or my previous M2 or even M4-P) but overall functional. I was already planning on having it serviced because I want to keep the camera. I do hear something that almost sounds like the run-on when I advance the film though. Can't say I've heard that on any other M I've tried.
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