Weird looking M4
Old 01-15-2016   #1
bucs
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Weird looking M4

http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/161948343551

So many engravings on this M4, why??
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Old 01-15-2016   #2
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Someone needed practice with the pantogrph
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Old 01-15-2016   #3
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It's a KE7a.

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Old 01-15-2016   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
It's a KE7a.

Marty
I don't think so.
Look at face plate states engraving sample or something close to it.
I also doubt Leitz would submit to the U.S. Military a camera with a duplicate serial number.
It also states Leitz property.
Its a practice camera. Someone made up.
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Old 01-15-2016   #5
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... Or a prop/demonstrator used in a retail outlet to demonstrate what engraving was possible?

It's definitely unique. I'm sure there's a story behind it but that's probably been lost to time.
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Old 01-15-2016   #6
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Who knows, but is it a nice working M4?
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Old 01-15-2016   #7
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As per Marty states, and a Midland assembled one. Usually $10,000 up
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Old 01-17-2016   #8
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I think that there was a relatively recent auction with a load of engraved stuff in it just like this. Prices were low if I remember correctly from which you can draw your own conclusions.
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Old 01-17-2016   #9
maitani
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looks like a betriebskamera indeed used as engravings sample, interesting in some ways, but i doubt it will go insanely high, but rather high i guess.
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Old 01-17-2016   #10
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Originally Posted by maitani View Post
looks like a betriebskamera indeed used as engravings sample, interesting in some ways, but i doubt it will go insanely high, but rather high i guess.
That's my suspicion too. It's hard to see why a KE7A would be engraved Leitz-Eigentum as well, unless it was a sales sample or prototype.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 01-18-2016   #11
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the third image from the left says "engraving sample" right on the front of the camera...

funny, poses the question how much engraving does it take for one to actually read the engraving...
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Old 01-18-2016   #12
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Well I believe it is a salesman sample from Midland, Canada. The recent Weslkht auction had one with the lens and no hood go for almost $31000US. I bet this one ends up there?
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Old 01-18-2016   #13
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$7221.00 winning bid
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Old 01-19-2016   #14
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FWIW: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/...d-for-auction/
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Old 01-19-2016   #15
Roger Hicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
the third image from the left says "engraving sample" right on the front of the camera...

funny, poses the question how much engraving does it take for one to actually read the engraving...
Yes. Depressing how many of us missed that. I didn't bother to enlarge that pic because... well... cameras are never engraved there! D'oh...

Cheers,

E.
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Old 01-19-2016   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oltimer View Post
Well I believe it is a salesman sample from Midland, Canada.
Why would a salesman sample include a KE7a engraving? It is far more likely that that was a demonstration camera used for internal training at Midland.
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Old 01-19-2016   #17
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Non ebay auction in July 2015.

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/au...3-a4b100add724


Previous ebay listing in August 2015.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151770821511
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Old 01-19-2016   #18
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I was observing that auction... it went up and crazy very quickly. Looks like the Leica fetish kicked in full force.
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Old 01-19-2016   #19
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Quote:
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Why would a salesman sample include a KE7a engraving? It is far more likely that that was a demonstration camera used for internal training at Midland.
Good thinking on your behalf, also since there was no Elcan lens with it. I am very familiar with this camera as 2 of my friends locally have them complete.
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Old 01-19-2016   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
That's my suspicion too. It's hard to see why a KE7A would be engraved Leitz-Eigentum as well, unless it was a sales sample or prototype.

Cheers,

R.
And why would it be engraved Leitz-Eigentum in German -in Canada-, and Engraving Sample in English?
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Old 01-19-2016   #21
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Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
And why would it be engraved Leitz-Eigentum in German -in Canada-, and Engraving Sample in English?
My guess is that "Leitz-Eigentum" simply is one of the sample engravings. While "Engraving Sample" is the only one that is not a sample, but literally means what it says - it also is the only engraving on it that I've never seen on another Leica.
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Old 01-19-2016   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
My guess is that "Leitz-Eigentum" simply is one of the sample engravings. While "Engraving Sample" is the only one that is not a sample, but literally means what it says - it also is the only engraving on it that I've never seen on another Leica.
It is hard to dispute this argument.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 01-19-2016   #23
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I'm pretty sure the seller did not know he was in for a treat with that ending bid
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Old 01-19-2016   #24
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$7221 USD winning bid! I hope I'm not the only person who finds that a little bit crazy. Perhaps I should take a Dremel to my M7 and auction it as a one-of-a-kind engraved model...
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Old 01-19-2016   #25
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$7221 USD winning bid! I hope I'm not the only person who finds that a little bit crazy. Perhaps I should take a Dremel to my M7 and auction it as a one-of-a-kind engraved model...
I do not think we have heard the last on this one. I believe it will come out again, and a lot more higher.
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Old 01-19-2016   #26
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I've seen this same auction several times on eBay and someone posted 2 more links to the same camera.

I suspect it could be a bogus auction.
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Old 01-19-2016   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
My guess is that "Leitz-Eigentum" simply is one of the sample engravings. While "Engraving Sample" is the only one that is not a sample, but literally means what it says - it also is the only engraving on it that I've never seen on another Leica.
IWhy should a Canadian engraver use a German text as a sample? Would one not expect "Leitz-Property"?
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Old 01-19-2016   #28
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went higher than expected, anyways i d steer clear of such a camera even at half price
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Old 01-19-2016   #29
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IWhy should a Canadian engraver use a German text as a sample? Would one not expect "Leitz-Property"?
Did they ever engrave cameras with "Leitz Property"? IIRC Midland internally identified themselves as ELCAN rather than Leitz.

It probably would have been a sample of the most important engravings they expected to have to reproduce in cases of top cap damage or loss - "Leitz-Eigentum" would be on that list, "Leitz Property" quite probably not. And the samples might even have been engraved in Wetzlar. This indeed is quite likely - if they wanted Midland to be typographically accurate beyond the paperwork in the service manual, supplying a camera with ORIGINAL engravings would be far more useful than a set of samples locally created from said printouts.
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Old 01-20-2016   #30
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Hi,

Why shouldn't a factory set up in another country have odds and ends of stuff from the original factory used for training? And if it was used for training why not use it to demonstrate with whatever you like. It could have been part engraved in Germany then sent to Canada and forgotten.

We could just be talking about a top plate that was then fitted on to the rest of the body and used for a demo or loan camera as nothing else was available. Why assume everything runs in a logical pattern when reality is usually messy?

And why pay so much? That's the strangest part of it...

Regards, David
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Old 01-20-2016   #31
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Without provenance this camera really has got to be suspect. As a cheap working camera with engravings on it (which in all honesty could have been done by anyone at anytime) it is fine (as long as it works ok of course), but as anything else its simply an unknown quantity. Personally I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole for anything beyond the cost of a user M4 and if the engravings cannot be verified in any way then it is in my view worth somewhat less than a user M4, but this is merely my personal opinion of course - caveat emptor (large caveat in this case).
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