Last frames are empty
Old 10-08-2015   #1
alexM
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Last frames are empty

Today, after shooting a 24 shot roll I end up with 19 images. The rest of frames were empty. When I was shooting, the counter went over 24 and kept going until I stopped it at about 32. I was sure I loaded incorrectly, but then rewind took some time, so at least some of the film went trough I thought.

I am not sure why it happened. Probably, after shoot 19, film perforations slid from sprocket wheel, and film was advancing no longer?

Is it a known issue with Leica IIIf?

Is there a repair?

Thanks,
Alex
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Old 10-08-2015   #2
Mudman
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Did you remember to reset your film counter? Silly question, but I've done it before.
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Old 10-08-2015   #3
Rob-F
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Which end of the roll was blank? Beginning, or end?
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Old 10-08-2015   #4
alexM
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The end of the roll had empty frames.

Counter was reset to zero, I remember it well.
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Old 10-08-2015   #5
colyn
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Did you check for damaged sprocket holes? Film just doesn't slip off the sprocket unless it is loaded wrong.
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Old 10-08-2015   #6
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Did not see any obviously torn holes, film felt smooth when I was loading it on a reel for development
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Old 10-08-2015   #7
Rob-F
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I thought of the possibility that you accidentally moved the rewind lever to "R"? That would prevent the film from advancing. But on my IIIcs it also prevents the shutter from firing. You would have noticed that, of course, so that can't be it.

You may have a loose grub screw in the sprocket. That can make the sprocket slip and fail to advance the film. The takeup spool can provide a little bit of pull to compensate for the loose sprocket, until it gets enough film wound on it that its diameter increases to where that stops working.

If that's not it, I'm out of ideas.
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Old 10-08-2015   #8
colyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
You may have a loose grub screw in the sprocket. That can make the sprocket slip and fail to advance the film. The takeup spool can provide a little bit of pull to compensate for the loose sprocket, until it gets enough film wound on it that its diameter increases to where that stops working.

If that's not it, I'm out of ideas.
The sprocket does not use grub screws. It has a through screw that hold the sprocket to the shaft.
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Old 10-08-2015   #9
rfaspen
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Did you accidently move the rewind lever to R at about frame 19? Sure sounds like that's what happened.

Shoot some more rolls. Pay attention and make sure the rewind lever doesn't get moved over. See if you get the full roll.

It just sounds like that's what happened. So easy to do. Especially if you're new to the Barnack. Also, don't feel bad about that, soooo many of us have done that, but don't like to admit it
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Old 10-08-2015   #10
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Hmm. Just read in a post above that the shutter won't fire if the rewind is on R. I'm pretty sure my IIIa will fire the shutter with the rewind lever over. I will have to check on my IIIf and see if that's the case there.

So, maybe the rewind lever was moved over just enough to free the sprocket roller, but still let the shutter fire? Kind of 1/2 way between? Its a thought.
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Old 10-08-2015   #11
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Was the last frame on the roll also the last frame you shot with it? Or are there frames missing?

Frame counter dials do get rotated sometimes. I've had this happen, usually when I've taking a Leica camera out of a small bag often.

It's a good idea to keep an eye on the rewind knob, so you can tell if the film is still moving when you turn the advance knob.



I just had a IIf apart last night. The rewind lever also shifts up the 2nd curtain release cam so the curtains will unwind capped. The link arm between the lever and the cam might be stuck under the cam.
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Last edited by Mr_Flibble : 10-08-2015 at 23:34. Reason: typos
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Old 10-08-2015   #12
sevo
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If you expose without transporting (as suggested in a variety of ways), you'd have a multiple exposure on the last frame. Do you? If you don't, a wrong counter setting is the most plausible reason...
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Old 10-09-2015   #13
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On a correctly adjusted cameras the rewind level blocks the second curtain, thus inhibits exposing when at 1/4 of way towards R. At cca 80% towards R it decouples the sprocket wheel and thus makes winding the curtains not possible, you cannot fire anymore. You need to check f he problem occurs again, f yes than CLA.
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Old 10-09-2015   #14
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Yes, both iiif and iiic will be heading for CLA. I am thinking of Oleg -- Any comments?
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Old 10-09-2015   #15
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OK, I tried another experiment with the same IIIc. Yes, there is a point just as the rewind lever is turned almost to the counter-clockwise arrow tip, almost to where the shutter fires on its own; at that point I can still fire the shutter. But then as I turn the winding knob, the shutter does not wind; the sprocket is released from turning; yet the film counter still advances. (The sprocket may appear to be turning, but it is only free-wheeling. I can hold it back with the little finger.) The black dot on the shutter release may still even turn (or not) so it may appear that things are normal; but the film is not advancing and the shutter no longer winds nor fires.

I tried this without film. Once the sprocket is released, and the shutter not winding, there is almost no resistance to turning the winding knob. And the shutter will not fire another time (since it did not wind). These can be taken as tactile clues that something is wrong, despite that the counter is advancing. AlexM, you didn't say that you felt the film stop at the end of the roll. You just stopped winding at frame 32. Question: was the shutter firing after frame 19?
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Old 10-11-2015   #16
alexM
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The shutter was firing all the way. My first thought was I did not load correctly and film was not advancing.
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