Is this the worst...
Old 09-22-2016   #1
rybolt
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Is this the worst...

sensor corrosion that you've ever seen? Just picked this camera up from a friend and I assumed that it was going to have the problem but I've never seen one this bad. 4,276 actuations and never used in inclement weather.
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Old 09-22-2016   #2
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looks like someone tried to clean the sensor with an ice pick.
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Old 09-22-2016   #3
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what canera , M9 or ME??
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Old 09-22-2016   #4
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what canera ??
This thread is in M9/ME so I assume probably M9?
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Old 09-22-2016   #5
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M9. And the damage is all UNDER the glass. You can see it with your eyes. I've been doing wet cleans for years (ex-camera store owner) and it was obvious it wasn't a surface issue.
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Old 09-22-2016   #6
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yes Thanks I realise the thread
just Wondering which camera

i have not heard of many M-E's with sensor problems though I often wonder why...
same sensor

Either way 'rybolt' very Sorry to hear !
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Old 09-22-2016   #7
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My M-E bought new in 2013 had a cracked sensor replaced under warranty last year. If M-E's haven't developed sensor corrosion in large numbers yet it is because they are newer cameras than M9's. Sensor corrosion/cracking or not, I love mine.
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Old 09-22-2016   #8
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Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
yes Thanks I realise the thread
just Wondering which camera

i have not heard of many M-E's with sensor problems though I often wonder why...
same sensor

Either way 'rybolt' very Sorry to hear !
My M-E had the sensor issue 8 months after purchase.

I think you may have heard of fewer just because there were way more M9s sold.
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Old 09-22-2016   #9
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Never seen anything like that. I can't afford an insanely great camera like a Leica, so I use my lowly Canon 5DmkII. That low-quality trash gives flawless images every time, and has for the entire four years I have owned it. Too bad I'm not wealthy like you guys, I could own a camera whose sensors corrode!
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Old 09-23-2016   #10
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How about asking yourself what your comment adds to the discussion before you post.
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Old 09-23-2016   #11
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Indeed, Chris. Your post comes across as smug and condescending. It's particularly offensive on top of someone's misfortune.
Not to mention the Canon 5D MKII wasn't exactly cheap 4 years ago.
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Old 09-23-2016   #12
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My M-E had a sensor replacement last August just before I bought it. 12 months of warranty on it. Not sure if it was replaced because of corrosion, but still, yikes.
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Old 09-23-2016   #13
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Indeed, Chris. Your post comes across as smug and condescending. It's particularly offensive on top of someone's misfortune.

John
No worse than the crap smug, condescending Leica fanboys post constantly. What I said is true not just of Canon; it was true of the Nikon digital SLRs I owned in the past. I find it amazing that despite the constant reliability problems with Leica's digital cameras, people are still giving the company their money.

I used to have a couple of M6 bodies; they were great, well made, reliable, and probably damn near indestructible. Its too bad they couldn't achieve that quality in their digital stuff.
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Old 09-23-2016   #14
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Can you tell us which problems that you're referring to other than the sensor issues on the M9 and M-E?
I don't argue with people on the internet but you are out of line in your comments about smug and condescending fanboys when you know nothing of the people who are posting.
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Old 09-23-2016   #15
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Yes, I have not seen examples worse than this.
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Old 09-23-2016   #16
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No worse than the crap smug, condescending Leica fanboys post constantly.

Might be time to remember that the RFF is a rangefinder enthusiast forum.
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Old 09-23-2016   #17
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Might be time to remember that the RFF is a rangefinder enthusiast forum.

I love rangefinders, too. I still use my Mamiya 6 all the time. I regret selling my Leica film cameras, they were great. I would not buy a Leica digital camera. The quality just plain doesn't match the prices.
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Old 09-23-2016   #18
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Can you tell us which problems that you're referring to other than the sensor issues on the M9 and M-E?
I don't argue with people on the internet but you are out of line in your comments about smug and condescending fanboys when you know nothing of the people who are posting.

Those are the 'big ones'; A digital camera is worthless with a bad sensor. Ohh, and don't forget the M8 fiasco where Leica ended up giving people IR cut filters for their lenses because they forgot to put one on the sensor.

No other digital camera manufacturer has had these kinds of problems. None. Not Nikon, nor Canon, nor Sony, nor Olympus, nor Fuji, Pentax, Ricoh or (when they still made cameras) Minolta. Just Leica.

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Old 09-23-2016   #19
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Not to mention the Canon 5D MKII wasn't exactly cheap 4 years ago.

Actually, it was. I bought mine right after the 5DmkIII was introduced, and the prices were dropped. I paid $2900 for mine with the 24-105 f4L-IS lens. If I remember right, the body alone sold for a little over $2000, but I got it with the lens since I didn't own any EOS lenses at the time.

The camera paid for itself the first month I had it from a couple of commercial photo jobs I did and some prints I sold that were made with it.

I have used it heavily; it is carried with me everywhere I go, it has been rained on, taken in subzero cold and it has always "Just worked" with no problems, ever.
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Old 09-23-2016   #20
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Chris, I mostly like your posts, but the latest ones seems to be out of line. Nothing contructive to gain from it. If your goal was to make fun of people because they wasted good money on Leica cameras, I suppose you made your point. Indeed, Leica digital cameras havent been on an equal standing with their film counterpart, but I dont see your point in bring it out in this thread.
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Old 09-23-2016   #21
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I still would like to get a digital Leica, despite reports like this one. In fact, I feel sorry about people getting these sensor problems... It's a bummer. I hope you get this solved fast and without any wallet pain!
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Old 09-23-2016   #22
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Those are the 'big ones'; A digital camera is worthless with a bad sensor. Ohh, and don't forget the M8 fiasco where Leica ended up giving people IR cut filters for their lenses because they forgot to put one on the sensor.

No other digital camera manufacturer has had these kinds of problems. None. Not Nikon, nor Canon, nor Sony, nor Olympus, nor Fuji, Pentax, Ricoh or (when they still made cameras) Minolta. Just Leica.

Maybe people want to use a rangefinder camera, and want to take pictures in a digital medium. To do this there's only one company that makes these types of camera. That's Leica. So either buy a Leica M9, M-E... and deal with any possible issues that may arise. Or go buy a camera, which is not a rangefinder, from any of the other well regarded camera manufactures. But then you wouldn't be using a rangefinder camera - and don't most people buy a rangefinder camera because of the type of camera it is and has certain attributes that set it apart from other cameras. It's just a shame they cost a bit more.
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Old 09-23-2016   #23
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Chris, I mostly like your posts, but the latest ones seems to be out of line. Nothing contructive to gain from it. If your goal was to make fun of people because they wasted good money on Leica cameras, I suppose you made your point. Indeed, Leica digital cameras havent been on an equal standing with their film counterpart, but I dont see your point in bring it out in this thread.
Somebody has to keep you guys from wasting your money.
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Old 09-23-2016   #24
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Somebody has to keep you guys from wasting your money.
well I suppose there it that
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Old 09-23-2016   #25
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Originally Posted by mpaniagua View Post
well I suppose there it that
It's like having a grumpy parent.

"If you buy that Leica I have been reading about, you will not save any money, so -- when I am dead and gone, you won't have any money, and you will have to live in the subway with the other bums."
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Old 09-23-2016   #26
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Here's the backstory on this camera. I'm a longtime Leica film guy. Got my first M3 in 1967, went to the Leica Schule in 1986 (I was a Leica US dealer for almost 30 years), retired in 2010, and thought about an M9 but could never justify it. Yesterday a friend sold me his Leica kit which included an M6TTL, some Zeiss and Leica lenses (in Classifieds right now) and an M9. I was 95% sure the M9 would have the problem so I just resigned myself to the fact that it would need to go in but after four months wait I'd have a camera with 4276 actuations and a new sensor for less than $2,000. I have a pile of Leica lenses in LTM and M mount and am looking forward to getting the camera back.
I'll use the M9 alongside the Fuji X cameras and lenses.
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Old 09-23-2016   #27
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so I just resigned myself to the fact that it would need to go in but after four months wait I'd have a camera with 4276 actuations and a new sensor for less than $2,000.

You realize of course, if this does not work out you may have to live in the subway?
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Old 09-23-2016   #28
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You realize of course, if this does not work out you may have to live in the subway?

I suppose film and printed photos could be burned.
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Old 09-23-2016   #29
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You realize of course, if this does not work out you may have to live in the subway?
Just got to hand you this, that remarks been keeping a smile on my face for the last 10min
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Old 09-23-2016   #30
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Who makes sensors for the Leica digital cameras?
Has this changed through the years?
And have Leica branded cameras made by firms like Fuji and Panasonic the same issues? I've probably missed something in a thread somewhere but I'm curious.
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Old 09-23-2016   #31
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Red face

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You realize of course, if this does not work out you may have to live in the subway?
I hadn't progressed quite that far in my thinking! But I choose to be optimistic. Plus, the guy I got it from is a friend of almost 25 years and we agreed it would be a no risk purchase if Leica bails out on fixing it. And on top of all that... my wife is out of town right now.
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Old 09-23-2016   #32
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... my wife is out of town right now.
It makes sense now
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Old 09-23-2016   #33
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Wouldn't phrase it like Chris did but the question remains, why spend so much money on something that cannot be relied on? Truly baffles me. Just a thought, doesn't beg for an answer here, since it's off-topic...

And yes I'm a rangefinder enthusiast so I can be on the forum too , I have a 1932 Leica II. I'm guessing that the CLA it currently needs, will be the fifth or less time it goes in for service in 84 years?

Meanwhile I traded my lovely Hasselblad set for a Sony A7 when I was diagnosed with a burn out last spring. With a few nice Canon FD lenses to use on the A7 I was out considerably less than a digital Leica and the thing hasn't had a single hiccup in 6 months time, over 4K shots. Once I can work again, it will probably take anything I throw at it with grace. And there's no shutter delay or extensive black-out like on an M240 with EVF either.

I shot some pretty nice pictures with the M8 while I had it but it never grew on me and I was happy I'd already traded it away when the sensors became irreplaceable and the coffee stain issues started to appear.
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Old 09-23-2016   #34
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Wouldn't phrase it like Chris did but the question remains, why spend so much money on something that cannot be relied on? Truly baffles me. Just a thought, doesn't beg for an answer here, since it's off-topic...
I think everyone agrees, but some of us go ahead and fall in love, and worst of all, buy Italian cars, even though they make Leica digital cameras look super reliable. I will not even mention '50s English cars.
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Old 09-23-2016   #35
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Wouldn't phrase it like Chris did but the question remains, why spend so much money on something that cannot be relied on? ....
Because nothing else in the digital world can be relied on to have a real rf focusing and viewing system that works perfectly with Leica lenses, and gives the joy of using an elemental camera in a digital context.

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Meanwhile I traded my lovely Hasselblad set for a Sony A7 when I got my burn out last spring. With a few nice lenses to use on it I was out considerably less than a digital Leica and the thing hasn't had a single hiccup in 6 months time, over 4K shots. Once I can work again, it will probably take anything I throw at it with grace. And there's no shutter delay or extensive black-out like on an M240 with EVF either.
Original A7? How do you like those sensor flares?
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Old 09-23-2016   #36
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Who makes sensors for the Leica digital cameras?
Has this changed through the years?
And have Leica branded cameras made by firms like Fuji and Panasonic the same issues? I've probably missed something in a thread somewhere but I'm curious.
I'm not sure who makes Leica sensors. I have some suspicions but I'm not positive.
Does anyone else remember the fiasco from a few years ago when Sony-made sensors started delaminating? Fuji S5 cameras were the worst in that nearly every one of them needed a new sensor. The same sensor was in a few Canon cameras and they also needed replacement. Sony had the issue with a few of their own models but nothing like the Fuji issue.
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Old 09-23-2016   #37
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Because nothing else in the digital world can be relied on to have a real rf focusing and viewing system that works perfectly with Leica lenses, and gives the joy of using an elemental camera in a digital context.
Granted, a Sony A7 isn't rf focusing but in manual mode (as we all agree, the only 'real photographers' mode) but it's as elemental as it gets if you steer away from the focus magnification, and why would you want to do that? I shoot a Canon 50mm 1.2 wide open on it and with focus magnification it nails the focus. A Summilux or Noctilux on the A7 might possibly be focused more precise than on a real rf focusing system?

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Original A7? How do you like those sensor flares?
Huh? What sensor flares? Haven't seen anything in over 4K shots and haven't heard of this before either.
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Old 09-23-2016   #38
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I have to defend Leica here a little. They did come into the digital market pretty late and the M8 was a bit of a bomb in some ways and if their sensor supplier hadn't goofed the M9 would be a different camera. The latest incarnation, the 240, seem fine ... mine is as reliable and trustworthy as any camera I own. Expensive they are!
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Old 09-23-2016   #39
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Those are the 'big ones'; A digital camera is worthless with a bad sensor. Ohh, and don't forget the M8 fiasco where Leica ended up giving people IR cut filters for their lenses because they forgot to put one on the sensor.

No other digital camera manufacturer has had these kinds of problems. None. Not Nikon, nor Canon, nor Sony, nor Olympus, nor Fuji, Pentax, Ricoh or (when they still made cameras) Minolta. Just Leica.
No, not like for instance Nikon, it took a class action lawsuit to whip them into line when they had sensor problems. Leica simply replaces an affected sensor with a improved one free of charge without any hassle . Indeed a difference, you get what you pay for.

And yes, there was an IR issue on the M8 (like the Nikon D70, btw.). That you say "forgot" shows that you have no understanding of the reason.

I'll explain once again for your benefit. Leica has the handicap that they have to cater for legacy lenses, designed for film. Combined with the very short register distance of M lenses this causes very steep incidence angles of the light outside the centre of the sensor. That means that a thick filter stack in front of the sensor will cause extreme vignetting and colour shifts. Thus the IR filter could not be thicker than .5 mm which is half the thickness and effectiveness of the filters in long register distance DSLR cameras. Even the RD1 with a smaller sensor has an IR sensitivity problem, despite a smaller sensor and thus a thicker filter.

The main fault was a marketing one. Leica did not anticipate that the IR contamination would cause as many problems as it did. They should have supplied the filters immediately instead of after customer complaints.
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Old 09-23-2016   #40
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Who makes sensors for the Leica digital cameras?
Has this changed through the years?
And have Leica branded cameras made by firms like Fuji and Panasonic the same issues? I've probably missed something in a thread somewhere but I'm curious.
The M8 and M9 sensor was made by Kodak, taken over by Truesense and now ON.
The Digilux2 sensor was made by Sony and had a nearly 100% fail rate. Panasonic hassled their customers before replacing, but Leica did so without any problem. X-series cameras use Sony sensors, the M240 sensor is designed by Cmosis and made by STmicro, the SL and Q sensors are made by Towerjazz (Israeli Panasonic affiliate.) Other models I do not know offhand.
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