EPSON V600 or V700 or .... ?
Old 08-22-2012   #1
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EPSON V600 or V700 or .... ?

Hi,
I want to buy a scanner that can handle MF negatives and 35mm, and I am planning to get the Better Scan glass for flatter negatives. I am planning to keep the cost below $600. Are there many options here?

Thanks.

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Old 08-22-2012   #2
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V700 seems to give a 50% real resolution bump of 2400dpi, over the 1600dpi of the V600. Difference between web-quality scans and print-quality scans, in my opinion.
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Old 08-22-2012   #3
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700 over 600. No contest.
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Old 08-22-2012   #4
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are these flat beds?
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Old 08-22-2012   #5
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Yes, they are flatbed scanners that are known to do a good job with scanning when used with the Better Scan glass.
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Old 08-22-2012   #6
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Yes, they are flatbeds but capable of even LF scanning, Joe. It was a major upgrade for me from CanoScan 8600F to V700. Overall I'm very happy with V700, but the "band in the sky" which is caused by not so good 35 film holder (so I've read but haven't looked into it too much) is driving me crazy. Other than that, I'm happy and the Better Scan glass should solve the band problem.
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Old 08-22-2012   #7
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can they do 120 negs?
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Old 08-22-2012   #8
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Raid,
My .25c worth. I have had Minolta SD IV, V500 and V700. For MF, the V700 is good. For 35mm, not so much. For 35mm, the SD IV is much, much better. No contest, even with upgraded holders & ANR glass. I still have the SD IV and am hoping that it just keeps on ticking.
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Old 08-22-2012   #9
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Quote:
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can they do 120 negs?
Yes, and LF to 8X10.
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Old 08-22-2012   #10
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can they do 120 negs?
Yes they can.
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Old 08-22-2012   #11
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Canoscan 900f slightly better than V600, lower price.
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Old 08-22-2012   #12
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i will have to investigate further...deep in the bowels of my basement is a large box of 120 negs from my mamiya 6 days...
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Old 08-22-2012   #13
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it would be nice to play with my old negs in photoshop and see how they compare with the ones that i printed.
and to have a e file of some images...
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Old 08-22-2012   #14
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There have been some decent buys on used V700, popping up from time to time.
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Old 08-22-2012   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry M View Post
There have been some decent buys on used V700, popping up from time to time.

I will focus on the V700 for MF.
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Old 08-22-2012   #16
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I am disappointed by my 35mm and MF scanning on my V700. My scans just aren't sharp. I just shot a roll of 35mm Porta 400 on my Leica R8. I was mostly using a 21mm R lens. I had the roll developed and scanned by a local Walgreens. I then took about 16 of the negatives and scanned on the V700. I was astonished and disappointed to see the difference. The Walgreens scans were very sharp. The V700 scans appeared to be overexposed and blurry. I was using the negative holder that came with the V700.
Any advice on improving my V700 scanning would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 08-22-2012   #17
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What software were you using? Have you tried anti-reflective glass over the negatives? Or just the negs w/o holder with emulsion side up?
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Old 08-22-2012   #18
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Raid,
My .25c worth. I have had Minolta SD IV, V500 and V700. For MF, the V700 is good. For 35mm, not so much. For 35mm, the SD IV is much, much better. No contest, even with upgraded holders & ANR glass. I still have the SD IV and am hoping that it just keeps on ticking.
Gerry
Then I would need two scanners, and this is not what I want.
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Old 08-22-2012   #19
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When I want excellent tonal range over emphasized grain and contrast for BW films (135) then I prefer my V700 every time over the Coolscan 4000ED (which in turn is more convenient to batch scan a complete roll at once and Nikon Scan is better to use for color material than Epson Scan software).

The important thing with the V700 is a) to have the film 100% flat (and it will start curling during long scan sessions due to the heat under the closed lid) and b) to get the height of the film-holder properly adjusted (by changing the direction of the small plastic feet in the holder or omitting them completely).

Sufficiently flat film can be achieved by storing the film over night tightly rolled and with the emulsion side facing outwards. After I learned this I have never had to use the ANR inserts from better scanning again.

The Epson holder for 120 films is much more critical to use since the film is not supported at one end (3 frames of 6x6 give a strip that is slightly shorter than the provided length inside the holder). In this case the last frame usually starts slightly curling inside and is difficult to get flat. 4x5 sheets are thicker and can be perfectly mounted into the holder. Again, the 4x5 and 120 film-holder can and most probably be adjusted similarly to the 135 film holder to bring the film into the focal plane of the scanning lens.

After a lot of usage, the plastic holder start to wear and get wobbly and from this point is becomes more and more difficult to get the film hold steadily in position. I am now on my second set of original Epson holder and use the V700 since 2007.
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Old 08-22-2012   #20
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Raid,
V700, Betterscanning ANR holders. You're good to go.

Eric T,
Scanning is an acquired skill that takes lots of practice. GOOGLE Ken Lee scanning tips. Ken's tutorial makes all the difference. Also, go through you scanner's settings. There are several default settings to make things easy and give bad scans. Turn that stuff off.
If you have more questions, give me a shout.
My LUG Gallery was produced entirely with an Epson Expression 1680 from the Dark Ages. Nothing in there I am asahmed of.

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Old 08-22-2012   #21
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I tried anti-reflective glass and it wasn't better. I am usually use Epson Scan software. Silverfast is better but it doesn't match what I get from Walgreens.
I agree that the problem is with the film alignment. Are there better 35mm holders than what is provided by Epson for the V700?
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Old 08-22-2012   #22
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It seems that not every user ofthe V700 is happy about the results.
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Old 08-22-2012   #23
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Scanning results on the V700 seem to be a little dependant on film type in my experience. I've recently started using some Fuji Acros and for some reason the scans are the sharpest I've had with any 135 film.


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Old 08-22-2012   #24
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I have not changed my mind about the V700. I need to learn how to best scan film with such a scanner after getting it.
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Old 08-22-2012   #25
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The height of the V700 film holders above the glass can be varied to adjust focussing. Also as others have said there are after-market film holders with height adjustments. You can also make simple shims to test film height vs focus point.
The V700 is great for 120 and above (not so great for 35) IMO
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Old 08-22-2012   #26
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Hello Raid -- Enjoyed our meeting in Boston!

V600 will do 120 film; the V700 can scan larger transparencies/negatives.

My V500 scans of 6x9cm negatives give me prints of 12x18 inches that I think are plenty sharp. That's 6x the linear dimension of the film. The V700 is better.

Flatbed for 35mm is only good for web/screen images. I doubt you'll be satisfied with flatbed scans of 35mm.

Google "Moran Epson V500" for more, including sample images at 12x18, or just PM me and I'll send you a file of this image:

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Old 08-22-2012   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Then I would need two scanners, and this is not what I want.
Raid: realistically you choices are a combination of 35mm film scanner and a flatbed for MF or the better solution of a MF film scanner (Nikon 8000/9000 or Minolta Multi Pro) which will also scan 35mm perfectly.

Consider what you may spend for a scanner vs. what you have already spent for all those lenses and cameras. Then remember that line about a chain being no stronger than its weakest link.
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Old 08-23-2012   #28
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When I want excellent tonal range over emphasized grain and contrast for BW films (135) then I prefer my V700 every time over the Coolscan 4000ED (which in turn is more convenient to batch scan a complete roll at once and Nikon Scan is better to use for color material than Epson Scan software). . .
You could smear Vaseline on the lens of the Nikon and get the same effect.

Consumer flatbeds are fine if you don't print too large. I've yet to see one that produced much over 2400 dpi of real resolution. Just don't expect to pull much detail out of really dense regions of slides.

http://www.terrapinphoto.com/jmdavis/
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The weakest link
Old 08-23-2012   #29
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The weakest link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
Raid: realistically you choices are a combination of 35mm film scanner and a flatbed for MF or the better solution of a MF film scanner (Nikon 8000/9000 or Minolta Multi Pro) which will also scan 35mm perfectly.

Consider what you may spend for a scanner vs. what you have already spent for all those lenses and cameras. Then remember that line about a chain being no stronger than its weakest link.
Of course, I am aware of this critical point, Bob.
This is why I am taking my time to look deeper into what I need to get.
When the Nikon CoolScan III was still current, I had it, and I liked it for 35mm negatives and slides scans. Now it is obsolete.

The purchase of a good scanner (or two), would imply independence from commercial scanning.
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Old 08-23-2012   #30
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Hello Raid -- Enjoyed our meeting in Boston!

V600 will do 120 film; the V700 can scan larger transparencies/negatives.

My V500 scans of 6x9cm negatives give me prints of 12x18 inches that I think are plenty sharp. That's 6x the linear dimension of the film. The V700 is better.

Flatbed for 35mm is only good for web/screen images. I doubt you'll be satisfied with flatbed scans of 35mm.

Google "Moran Epson V500" for more, including sample images at 12x18, or just PM me and I'll send you a file of this image:


Hi Col. Sebastian,
It was a pleasure meeting you in Boston. I may get back to Boston in the coming weeks, but this is still in the planning stage.

My wish for the V600/V700 is mainly for MF scans.
Your image looks very good here.
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Old 08-23-2012   #31
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The V700 is great for 120 and above (not so great for 35) IMO
This seems to be the general finding here.
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Old 08-23-2012   #32
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Scanning results on the V700 seem to be a little dependant on film type in my experience. I've recently started using some Fuji Acros and for some reason the scans are the sharpest I've had with any 135 film.



Hi keith,
So you are among the minority who finds the V700 to be good with a 35mm film. Maybe the ACROS lends itself somehow for scanning with the V700?
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Old 08-23-2012   #33
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O.C.D.-Pixel Peeping Flavor is rampant at these scanner conversations.

Agreed. If somebody else is paying the freight, and I needed the best possible print, I would buy a pro quality drum scan. For the other 99.99% of the time, Epson rocks!

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Old 08-23-2012   #34
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Semantics. I know folks who don't loose originals.
"I would buy a pro scan." Better?

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Old 08-23-2012   #35
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will someone please describe wet scanning? do you actually wet the negative and mash it flat?
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Old 08-23-2012   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Hi,
I want to buy a scanner that can handle MF negatives and 35mm, and I am planning to get the Better Scan glass for flatter negatives. I am planning to keep the cost below $600. Are there many options here?

Thanks.

Raid
Regarding to the 35mm side of your wish: If you pay great emphasis on the output quality (even for web) then put these two formats apart from each other. To like flatbed results demands some compromises first; for I did, I learned and I can comment on.

For example with a Minolta Scan Elite 5400 I get 35mm B&W above 30MB and color over 90MB files. 5400 II is better in speed.. I use both since years and they cost a fraction of their Nikon brethren.

The following thread is long, 12 pages; go through it in your convenience. Many questions in your mind will be answered when you reach the end.

http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00SCs7

Bear in mind that the worst formats to scan, resolution wise as well as for tonality, are the ones smaller than MF; one ton of issues. Having to live with compromises on the flatbeds may kill the joy of scanning 35mm. On one side you think "I pay so much for a body, so much for a lens so what the heck are these for if they would not be expressed like they are worth for?!"

It's not much different than spending days for taking down a great article and then handing it to a novice interpreter to spare money and ending up only with a dull translation.
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Old 08-23-2012   #37
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Cool

I wish y'all would display the 35mm crap you're getting from flatbed scanners. I also wish I had some of what y'all are smoking when you tell a valued member of this Forum to buy dead dinosaur scanners that can't be repaired and don't have up to date software.
State of the Possible makes a lot more sense than Once Upon a Time a Long Time Ago State of the Art.
Get real people.
Now, somebody tell me what's so bloody terrible about this...Click this image for a bigger version. Scanned on an Epson flatbed that was built sortly after Edison invented the light bulb.



Raid, you better shop for a drum scanner. Obviously they are the only scanners that meet the local quality standards.

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Old 08-23-2012   #38
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I found my V700 "good enough" for 35mm, and outstanding for 6x6 and 6x9.

I think you have to have very high standards if the output is not good enough. I know some people talk about how much we spend on cameras/lenses etc. but plenty of people here will shoot Tri-X 400 with a Summilux, and not resolve half the resolution the lens has to offer.

I think that if a V700 is not good enough for MF, then either send off for a drum scan, but I'd think it's more than good enough for 99% of us.

For 35mm, I think these days I'd get a Plustek and not bother with the older Nikons. Minoltas etc. The Plusteks look great, no review I've seen shows the Nikon is better in any serious way, and I'd like to support what Plustek are doing.
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Old 08-23-2012   #39
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Quote:
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They can't because the majority of people that bash Epson flatbed scanners, especially for 35mm, don't own them. Like photography equipment, they are more concerned about numbers and performance tests, instead of going out and actually using the equipment. I am on my third Epson and have had no problem with any of them. Printed 35mm up to 12x18" and the results of the print completely exceeded my expectations. In the right hands, they are perfectly capable scanners. Sure, a dedicated film scanner may be better, but the price also reflects that and who wants to own multiple scanners for different formats?
Amen Brother aperture64!
Like all of the M5 detractors.

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Old 08-23-2012   #40
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I've had a v700 for quite a while now and am perfectly satisfied with the output in 35mm, 120 and 5x4. It's versatile, easy to use and I'm not looking to replace it anytime soon.

This is a 6x4.5 scan

3 J's downwind in the Solent by Vidwatts, on Flickr

and this 35mm

Venice: street corner equivalent by Vidwatts, on Flickr

and this 5x4

Venice by pinhole by Vidwatts, on Flickr
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