Old 06-26-2017   #321
Emile de Leon
Registered User
 
Emile de Leon is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 601
Next thing ya know..they will come out with a Leica O-series digital...and charge 15K for it...
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-27-2017   #322
willie_901
Registered User
 
willie_901's Avatar
 
willie_901 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
And what is wrong with an M9 with a new type sensor?
Almost nothing if you know how to select ISO, shutter times and apertures to maximize exposure (signal-to-noise ratio) and you use raw files. Essentially nothing if you do the above and render the raw in monochrome.
__________________
“To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.” George Orwell

williamchuttonjr.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-27-2017   #323
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
The M9 is a wonderful camera and it is now "a bargain", considering that a new M10 has a price of $7500 or more.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-27-2017   #324
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
In critical situations these cameras still need an IR filter.
I have found that using Heliopan filters marked "Digital" have both additional UV and IR filtering over regular filters by Heliopan and filters by other brands.

Basically I use additional filtering to lower the IR for reduced/less clipping, smoother rollover in the highlights, and a higher signal to noise ratio that allows me to shoot more to the right to optimize my histogram.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-29-2017   #325
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
I received today an email from Leica Camera US (NJ) that my M9 has arrived. They will eventually let me know what the diagnosis is.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-29-2017   #326
rfaspen
Registered User
 
rfaspen's Avatar
 
rfaspen is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 1,087
Good luck raid!

On another forum, I noticed some M10's lately at the $6500 mark used. Essentially unused, but not brand new. Of course, that's the new price but I hear about waiting lists....

I've also seen some used M10 offered at $8k and above. They don't seem to sell.

I love my M9. I'm a little depressed about all this sensor corrosion/replacement business, and the new policy just adds to the anxiety.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-29-2017   #327
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
I would keep using your M9 until it rusts! [or the sensor fails ]
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-29-2017   #328
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
Good luck raid!

On another forum, I noticed some M10's lately at the $6500 mark used. Essentially unused, but not brand new. Of course, that's the new price but I hear about waiting lists....

I've also seen some used M10 offered at $8k and above. They don't seem to sell.

I love my M9. I'm a little depressed about all this sensor corrosion/replacement business, and the new policy just adds to the anxiety.
R,

This is a difficult time, and the waiting is deadly.

I know my MM is a very basic camera, and that is why I love it warts and all. The M-246 is so more advanced, but really the original MM is the camera for me.

I bought mine early on. Waited 5 months on a list from a dealer, and over the 5 years I have owned it no issues or problems other than having to get my sensor replaced. Now that I had the sensor replaced I expect using my MM a very long time. For me it is a camera that cannot be replaced. Know that I have many other cameras though.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #329
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 870
I just received my estimate from Leica. I am very happy as they are replacing the sensor or sensor cover and also doing some sort of circuitry work, as well as a general CLA on the RF, for $0.00. I know it'll take awhile but I expect to receive an as-new M9 that I will probably use for as long as it still clicks.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #330
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
Congratulations on the zero cost repair!
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #331
ornate_wrasse
Moderator
 
ornate_wrasse's Avatar
 
ornate_wrasse is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,058
Wonderful news! I must admit that when I first saw the cost, it looked like much more than
$0.00. It took a second look for me to realize that it didn't cost you anything.

Approximately how long did it take for Leica to get back to you with an estimate after you had sent your M9 to them?
__________________
Images

www.pbase.com/ornate_wrasse

Leica M9 (temporarily at Leica NJ to have sensor replaced), Leica M6, Leica M3 - 21mm 3.4 Super Angulon, 28mm 2.8 Elmarit, 35mm Summicron, Nikkor SC 50mm 1.4, Carl Zeiss Jena 50mm 1.5, CV 75mm 2.5, Nikkor 8.5cm 2.0

Mamiya 6 - 50mm f4, 75mm f3.5, 150mm f4.5

Fuji X-Pro1 - 16-55mm f/2.8, 27mm f/2.8
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #332
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
I just received my estimate from Leica. I am very happy as they are replacing the sensor or sensor cover and also doing some sort of circuitry work, as well as a general CLA on the RF, for $0.00. I know it'll take awhile but I expect to receive an as-new M9 that I will probably use for as long as it still clicks.
C,

The new sensor and an electronic circuit board are replaced as an assembly.

With my camera I was told by the repair manager that basically my camera will get "overhauled" and will be like an almost new camera.

I don't think the service manager exaggerated. My MM was used heavily, the top plate is silvery along the edges displaying a different form of "brassing," but otherwise the camera is kinda like new.

The covering was replaced with new covering, and my old covering was worn smooth from my fingers. Also know that you get new firmware.

I have not seen any difference in the IQ from the new sensor.

I think in the end you will be pleased.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #333
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 870
Shipped on the 21st of June, received the 23rd by Leica.

I got an email notifying me that they had received the camera on the 28th. I was a little worried because the form they sent me was blank and did not actually have my camera (or anything) listed in the received column, but I let it go as I was travelling.

Today, July 12th, I got the estimate, two weeks on the nose from their first notification and about 3 weeks since I shipped the camera. Not bad.

I asked about the current wait time for the repair, but have not heard back yet. EDIT: they said 24-36 weeks.

Thanks Calzone for the additional information, that makes sense. My M9 (purchased used) was heavily worn on the black paint and had lots of brassing. I don't really care about the cosmetics but I am still glad to hear they really overhaul it. I am definitely pleased from the get-go here with the "cost" and will feel confident in using this camera even for my paid work, which I have not been after having corrosion spots show up in the eyes of subjects and the like which is a pain to fix.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #334
SlappyPeterson
Registered User
 
SlappyPeterson is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36
Another "success" story here.

I mailed my camera to Wetzlar several weeks ago, on a wing and a prayer. I honestly couldn't tell 100% if I had the sensor issue, but said what the heck, sent it anyway. Cost about $150 shipped from Wisconsin, USA. Long story short, got an email about a month ago saying that testing confirms I had the sensor issue, and Leica is replacing the sensor at no cost to me, along with cleaning and adjustment. Repair estimation is 6 weeks, so I should have my camera back within the month (I hope). Happy camper here.

Editing to add: Also, I purchased my M9 USED from B&H Photo in August of 2012. So seems that it doesn't matter if you bought your camera new or used.

Last edited by SlappyPeterson : 07-12-2017 at 10:24. Reason: More info
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #335
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlappyPeterson View Post
Repair estimation is 6 weeks
That's quite a difference, I wonder if the influx of people sending in their cameras with the announcement of the end of the program has led to what they told me - up to 36 weeks.

Hopefully for you they didn't mistakenly leave off the 3 on 36 .
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #336
SlappyPeterson
Registered User
 
SlappyPeterson is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
That's quite a difference, I wonder if the influx of people sending in their cameras with the announcement of the end of the program has led to what they told me - up to 36 weeks.

Hopefully for you they didn't mistakenly leave off the 3 on 36 .
Seriously. I'll report back once I get it. I check the repair tracking portal first thing in the morning, every day. My camera still shows "In Repair".

http://repair.leica-camera.com/service/repairtracking/
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-12-2017   #337
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
In 2014, Leica replaced motherboard (and sensor) for my M9 and charged then $400 for labor. It was not for free then. Still, an awesome deal.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-22-2017   #338
Rob-F
It's Only a Hobby
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Posts: 4,975
I decided to end my anxiety over shipping issues by just taking it to Schiller's Photo in St. Louis. Stephanie knows all about the M9 sensor issue and can send it to Leica for me. She said Leica NJ is sending them to Germany for this work.

We looked at the purchase receipt from Photo Village. It indicates that the camera had a new sensor; however, my date of purchase was April 10, 2016, and we don't know how long before that the sensor had been replaced; so we don't know if I have a "new old sensor" or a "New New Sensor." So I opted to have it sent in for a clean and check, and we will see. In either case, I guess I'm covered now, outside of the loss of use of the camera while it is away.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-22-2017   #339
ornate_wrasse
Moderator
 
ornate_wrasse's Avatar
 
ornate_wrasse is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
I decided to end my anxiety over shipping issues by just taking it to Schiller's Photo in St. Louis. Stephanie knows all about the M9 sensor issue and can send it to Leica for me. She said Leica NJ is sending them to Germany for this work.
I think you made the right decision by sending it in. How much did Schiller's Photo charge you for shipping it to Leica?

Interesting that Leica NJ is sending all the cameras to Leica in Germany. That must be part of the reason why it's taking so long for the work to be done.
__________________
Images

www.pbase.com/ornate_wrasse

Leica M9 (temporarily at Leica NJ to have sensor replaced), Leica M6, Leica M3 - 21mm 3.4 Super Angulon, 28mm 2.8 Elmarit, 35mm Summicron, Nikkor SC 50mm 1.4, Carl Zeiss Jena 50mm 1.5, CV 75mm 2.5, Nikkor 8.5cm 2.0

Mamiya 6 - 50mm f4, 75mm f3.5, 150mm f4.5

Fuji X-Pro1 - 16-55mm f/2.8, 27mm f/2.8
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-22-2017   #340
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
Now this is interesting. So our M9 are sent to Wetzlar after all. With the new-new-sensor, and getting the M9 adjusted and calibrated, and getting new leather cover, it will be a wonderful "broken-in" but like new , and better, camera! All for no charge.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-22-2017   #341
Rob-F
It's Only a Hobby
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Posts: 4,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by ornate_wrasse View Post
I think you made the right decision by sending it in. How much did Schiller's Photo charge you for shipping it to Leica?

Interesting that Leica NJ is sending all the cameras to Leica in Germany. That must be part of the reason why it's taking so long for the work to be done.
Ellen: I don't know for sure about the shipping this time--I didn't ask. But in the past when Schiller's sent my cameras for repairs or checkup, the shipping cost was quite nominal.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-22-2017   #342
Rob-F
It's Only a Hobby
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Posts: 4,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Now this is interesting. So our M9 are sent to Wetzlar after all. With the new-new-sensor, and getting the M9 adjusted and calibrated, and getting new leather cover, it will be a wonderful "broken-in" but like new , and better, camera! All for no charge.
Raid: I don't know if I'm getting all that. It might depend on whether they decide the sensor needs replacement. If not, I imagine they might just do a sensor cleaning in NJ and send it back.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-22-2017   #343
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
Rob: Yes, you are right about the sensor, but they usually also do a CLA and adjust the RF and replace the leather on the camera .
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-24-2017   #344
SlappyPeterson
Registered User
 
SlappyPeterson is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36
They replace the leatherette too? Wow, I didn't know that.

That's pretty awesome if they do.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-24-2017   #345
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 346
They have to take off the covering to do the repair, so they have to replace it. It's not like they are replacing the covering out of the goodness of their heart.
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-24-2017   #346
SlappyPeterson
Registered User
 
SlappyPeterson is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36
Ah. Didn't realize that.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-24-2017   #347
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
They have to take off the covering to do the repair, so they have to replace it. It's not like they are replacing the covering out of the goodness of their heart.
P,

I actually would of liked to have retained my old covering that was worn smooth in some areas from me holding the camera. Oh-well.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017   #348
SlappyPeterson
Registered User
 
SlappyPeterson is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36
Checked the status of my M9 sensor replacement this morning - status updated to "Repair Completed". Been almost 6 weeks since they received it. Hoping this means I have my camera in my hands soon!

The history:

Service order registered on: June 20
Order confirmation sent: June 23
In repair: June 23
Repair completed: August 3
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017   #349
jszokoli
Registered User
 
jszokoli's Avatar
 
jszokoli is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlappyPeterson View Post
Checked the status of my M9 sensor replacement this morning - status updated to "Repair Completed". Been almost 6 weeks since they received it. Hoping this means I have my camera in my hands soon!

The history:

Service order registered on: June 20
Order confirmation sent: June 23
In repair: June 23
Repair completed: August 3
How did you 'log in' to get this info. I tried to figure it out but never got anywhere.

Was this Leica NJ?

Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017   #350
SlappyPeterson
Registered User
 
SlappyPeterson is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jszokoli View Post
How did you 'log in' to get this info. I tried to figure it out but never got anywhere.

Was this Leica NJ?

Joe
I sent mine to Wetzlar. They gave me this link (along with my repair number) to monitor progress.

http://repair.leica-camera.com/service/repairtracking/
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017   #351
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 870
I tried my service order number in that tool and came up with nothing. I received that number from Leica NJ. My assumption is it only works for stuff sent to Wetzlar?
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017   #352
SlappyPeterson
Registered User
 
SlappyPeterson is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
I tried my service order number in that tool and came up with nothing. I received that number from Leica NJ. My assumption is it only works for stuff sent to Wetzlar?
Yeah, I guess that's the case. I would've assumed Leica NJ has a similar tracking service.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-09-2017   #353
jszokoli
Registered User
 
jszokoli's Avatar
 
jszokoli is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 104
As we approach August 15th;

Here's my story to this point, sent my M-E in early May. Had a evaluation within a two weeks. Sensor to be replaced, -$0- repair.

Mid May sent my Monocrom in. It took close to 8 weeks, and a couple of prodding e-mails to get the evaluation. The result another -$0- repair/sensor replacement.

I'd say things are quite backed up, and slowing down in NJ. With the deadline almost here it can't be getting better. I hope the needed resources are made available so things don't come to a total stop.

So, I will get two refurbished cameras in time, and I'm happy about that, but somewhat apprehensive about how long it will take.

You would think that Leica NJ would have a automated tracking service like Wetzer, but I've yet to find it. I anyone knows if there is one, and can share the info that would be great.

Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-09-2017   #354
conyon
Registered User
 
conyon is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 242
Good news and good experience it seems .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jszokoli View Post
As we approach August 15th;

Here's my story to this point, sent my M-E in early May. Had a evaluation within a two weeks. Sensor to be replaced, -$0- repair.

Mid May sent my Monocrom in. It took close to 8 weeks, and a couple of prodding e-mails to get the evaluation. The result another -$0- repair/sensor replacement.

I'd say things are quite backed up, and slowing down in NJ. With the deadline almost here it can't be getting better. I hope the needed resources are made available so things don't come to a total stop.

So, I will get two refurbished cameras in time, and I'm happy about that, but somewhat apprehensive about how long it will take.

You would think that Leica NJ would have a automated tracking service like Wetzer, but I've yet to find it. I anyone knows if there is one, and can share the info that would be great.

Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-09-2017   #355
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by jszokoli View Post
As we approach August 15th;

Here's my story to this point, sent my M-E in early May. Had a evaluation within a two weeks. Sensor to be replaced, -$0- repair.

Mid May sent my Monocrom in. It took close to 8 weeks, and a couple of prodding e-mails to get the evaluation. The result another -$0- repair/sensor replacement.

I'd say things are quite backed up, and slowing down in NJ. With the deadline almost here it can't be getting better. I hope the needed resources are made available so things don't come to a total stop.

So, I will get two refurbished cameras in time, and I'm happy about that, but somewhat apprehensive about how long it will take.

You would think that Leica NJ would have a automated tracking service like Wetzer, but I've yet to find it. I anyone knows if there is one, and can share the info that would be great.

Joe
Joe,

Bill, the Service Manager, told me effectively you are almost getting a brand new camera back. I do not think this is too much of an exaggeration.

My Monochrom was heavily used for four years where it was my main camera, and other than the wear on the top and bottom plates the camera is as if new.

I was told 8-10 weeks wait, but it ended up being 12 weeks. It has been all good for me.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-10-2017   #356
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
I am looking forward to getting back an almost new M9! This is very exciting.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Help please!
Old 08-13-2017   #357
pepeguitarra
Registered User
 
pepeguitarra's Avatar
 
pepeguitarra is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 723
Help please!

Few months ago, there was a thread about Leica NJ, mainly bashing Leica's customer service. I made a posting asking for Leica contact. Someone from Leica NJ responded a posted address, email, phone number, for contact. Even the procedure to send the M9. I cannot find the post. Can any of you, or the moderators point me to the right thread, please? Thanks, Pepe.
__________________
It is not a photo until you print it! Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-13-2017   #358
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,972
I would Google such information. This is what I have done. Call the phone number listed, and discuss your camera's issues or potential issues. Request a mailer. Maybe they will approve this. Pack up the camera very well, and mail it off. Make sure to record the serial number of your camera. Remove the battery. Document that you have included the camera cover and strap, say.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Thank you Raid.
Old 08-13-2017   #359
pepeguitarra
Registered User
 
pepeguitarra's Avatar
 
pepeguitarra is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 723
Thank you Raid.

I googled is and here is the information. I do remember that last time I sent the camera, they told me to just send it, and they would contact me. The only problem is that I was in limbo for several weeks not knowing where my camera was. So, it is better to have sign receipt. Thanks, Pepe
__________________
It is not a photo until you print it! Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-14-2017   #360
mlu19
Registered User
 
mlu19 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 71
I just overnighted my M9P to Leica NJ. Hope to get my baby back asap .. It feels strange without it. Now, I'm back to 100% film in the meantime. I'll post any updates on RFF for future reference. Anyone else sent in theirs recently before the free replacement program ends tomorrow?
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 21:49.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.